Re: [WSG] Table-Free Design

[Shane Helm]

Okay.  When I wanted to learn I went straight to the guru Dave Shea.   
He gave me the best 2 resources:

1.  "Eric Meyer on CSS"  You can find this book here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/073571245X/ 
qid=1071555113/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-5606242-1912942?v=glance&s=books

2.  http://www.dezwozhere.com/links.html
This is a page of links for all things CSS.  I'm on it all the time.   
Wow what a resource.
This page took me to the beginning place that I learned it all.  Go  
through this tutorial and you'll be doing exactly what you just asked  
in a matter of hours:
http://www.wpdfd.com/editorial/basics/index.html (CSS from the ground  
up) and specifically steps 7 - 9.  The chances are you'll now the first  
few steps already.  I did when I went through it, but it was a good  
refresher and it explains some good typography tips.

I hope these help.
Also read these group discussions everyday and don't be afraid to ask  
anything on subject.  Also listen to Hugh Todd.  He knows his stuff.   
He saved me in a crunch!

Shane Helm
{ sonzeDesignStudio™
On Aug 15, 2004, at 11:39 PM, John Horner wrote:
If I want to find solid building blocks for a table-free layout, where  
should I start?

I mean, I know there are hundreds of websites, but the recommendations  
of this group ought to be particularly useful.

The thing is, I want a lot! In terms of the page, I'm simply looking  
for

 * banner
 * three-column flexible layout for the main content
 * footer
but I'm hoping that the page doesn't exhibit any strange behaviours  
when the page gets too small/content gets too bit, like DIVs  
overlapping each other or disappearing to the bottom of the page, and  
I'm even hoping that the layout can be content-first, nav-second in  
the source.

I was also hoping that the CSS can be relatively straightforward and  
not consist of 147 nested @import statements full of  
high-pass/low-pass filters and box model hack code etc.

Am I asking too much? I won't be trying to support Netscape 4, if that  
helps...

jh
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To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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Re: [WSG] Table-Free Design

[John Allsopp]

John,
If I want to find solid building blocks for a table-free layout, where 
should I start?

I mean, I know there are hundreds of websites, but the recommendations 
of this group ought to be particularly useful.

The thing is, I want a lot! In terms of the page, I'm simply looking 
for

 * banner
 * three-column flexible layout for the main content
 * footer
but I'm hoping that the page doesn't exhibit any strange behaviours 
when the page gets too small/content gets too bit, like DIVs 
overlapping each other or disappearing to the bottom of the page, and 
I'm even hoping that the layout can be content-first, nav-second in 
the source.
You can definitely do some of that, but there are trade offs. sooner or 
later all such layouts will overlap or break.

I was also hoping that the CSS can be relatively straightforward and 
not consist of 147 nested @import statements full of 
high-pass/low-pass filters and box model hack code etc.
it's not all that necessary. I find the Tantek BM hack is really only 
necessary when you are obsessed with widths, down to the pixel level.

Am I asking too much? I won't be trying to support Netscape 4, if that 
helps...
Heaps ;-)
I'm sure others will point out some great resources like
http://positioniseverything.net/
http://www.bluerobot.com/ (getting long in tooth)
and many others.
Try Style master though. It's got a multi column layout wizard, and a 
fair number of two and three column layout templates you can reuse 
royalty and attribution free.

http://www.westciv.com/style_master/
HTH
john
John Allsopp
:: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/
software, courses, resources for a standards based web
:: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/
 :: WebEssentials Sept 2004 Sydney Australia :: http://www.we04.com
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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RE: [WSG] Table-Free Design

[David McDonald]

John,

There is a great list of categorised CSS 3 Column layouts available
at the CSS Discuss Wiki:

http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=ThreeColumnLayouts



 Original Message 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Table-Free Design
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:39:49 +1000

>If I want to find solid building blocks for a table-free layout, 
>where should I start?
>
>I mean, I know there are hundreds of websites, but the 
>recommendations of this group ought to be particularly useful.
>
>The thing is, I want a lot! In terms of the page, I'm simply looking
>for
>
>  * banner
>  * three-column flexible layout for the main content
>  * footer
>
>but I'm hoping that the page doesn't exhibit any strange behaviours 
>when the page gets too small/content gets too bit, like DIVs 
>overlapping each other or disappearing to the bottom of the page, and
>
>I'm even hoping that the layout can be content-first, nav-second in 
>the source.
>
>I was also hoping that the CSS can be relatively straightforward and 
>not consist of 147 nested @import statements full of 
>high-pass/low-pass filters and box model hack code etc.
>
>Am I asking too much? I won't be trying to support Netscape 4, if
>that helps...
>
>jh
>
>**
>The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>
>Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
> Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
>To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
>
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
>**
>

Regards,

David McDonald
Web Designer
http://www.davidmcdonald.org

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 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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Re: [WSG] Table-Free Design

[russ - maxdesign]

Hi John,

Some step-by-step tutorials that may be of help to you:

3 column layout with fixed edge columns:
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/tutorial_intro.htm

3 column liquid layout:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/liquid/

3 column semi-liquid layout:
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/floatutorial/tutorial0915.htm

2 column semi-liquid layout
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/floatutorial/tutorial0801.htm

2 columns with colour:
http://nemesis1.f2o.org/articles

2 columns fixed width:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/process/

HTH
Russ


> If I want to find solid building blocks for a table-free layout,
> where should I start?
> 
> I mean, I know there are hundreds of websites, but the
> recommendations of this group ought to be particularly useful.
> 
> The thing is, I want a lot! In terms of the page, I'm simply looking for
> 
> * banner
> * three-column flexible layout for the main content
> * footer
> 
> but I'm hoping that the page doesn't exhibit any strange behaviours
> when the page gets too small/content gets too bit, like DIVs
> overlapping each other or disappearing to the bottom of the page, and
> I'm even hoping that the layout can be content-first, nav-second in
> the source.
> 
> I was also hoping that the CSS can be relatively straightforward and
> not consist of 147 nested @import statements full of
> high-pass/low-pass filters and box model hack code etc.
> 
> Am I asking too much? I won't be trying to support Netscape 4, if that
> helps...
> 
> jh

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 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] Table-Free Design

[Neerav]

The Layout Reservoir - BlueRobot
http://www.bluerobot.com/web/layouts/
--
Neerav Bhatt
http://www.bhatt.id.au
Web Development & IT consultancy
Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27
http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav
John Horner wrote:
If I want to find solid building blocks for a table-free layout, where 
should I start?

I mean, I know there are hundreds of websites, but the recommendations 
of this group ought to be particularly useful.

The thing is, I want a lot! In terms of the page, I'm simply looking for
 * banner
 * three-column flexible layout for the main content
 * footer
but I'm hoping that the page doesn't exhibit any strange behaviours when 
the page gets too small/content gets too bit, like DIVs overlapping each 
other or disappearing to the bottom of the page, and I'm even hoping 
that the layout can be content-first, nav-second in the source.

I was also hoping that the CSS can be relatively straightforward and not 
consist of 147 nested @import statements full of high-pass/low-pass 
filters and box model hack code etc.

Am I asking too much? I won't be trying to support Netscape 4, if that 
helps...

jh
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

[WSG] Table-Free Design

[John Horner]

If I want to find solid building blocks for a table-free layout, 
where should I start?

I mean, I know there are hundreds of websites, but the 
recommendations of this group ought to be particularly useful.

The thing is, I want a lot! In terms of the page, I'm simply looking for
 * banner
 * three-column flexible layout for the main content
 * footer
but I'm hoping that the page doesn't exhibit any strange behaviours 
when the page gets too small/content gets too bit, like DIVs 
overlapping each other or disappearing to the bottom of the page, and 
I'm even hoping that the layout can be content-first, nav-second in 
the source.

I was also hoping that the CSS can be relatively straightforward and 
not consist of 147 nested @import statements full of 
high-pass/low-pass filters and box model hack code etc.

Am I asking too much? I won't be trying to support Netscape 4, if that helps...
jh
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] RE: Image replacement techniques for linked elements

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Aug 16, 2004, at 11:59 am, Henry Tapia wrote:
I tend to use the Leahy-Langridge method, which involves setting the
background image then padding the text out of the viewable area of the
element (with overflow set to hidden). This seems to work pretty well 
with
hyperlinked elements without adjustments to your markup, but 
unfortunately
doesn't address the issue of images being turned off when CSS is left 
on,
and it utilises a box-model hack.
A much better method imsho

P.
---/---
Philippe Wittenbergh
now live : 
code | design | web projects : 
IE5 Mac bugs and oddities : 
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Re: [WSG] RE: Image replacement techniques for linked elements

[Henry Tapia]

RE: [WSG] RE: Image replacement techniques for linked elementsHi guys,

>> I've done this on one of our new websites (text changed to make more
>> sense in this context), and it works quite well with images turned off
>> or on. Or am I missing the point of image replacement techniques?

I'm no expert and haven't been doing XHTML/CSS/standards for very long, but
my take on this is that the idea of CSS image replacement is so the text in
the image still appears in the source, ie. it still is accessible and
understood by search engines, screen-readers, etc.

People have come up with several techniques for this, generally by setting a
background image on the element and somehow hiding the text, via the CSS. A
good listing of various techniques is here:
http://www.mezzoblue.com/tests/revised-image-replacement/ (redesigned, yay!)

I tend to use the Leahy-Langridge method, which involves setting the
background image then padding the text out of the viewable area of the
element (with overflow set to hidden). This seems to work pretty well with
hyperlinked elements without adjustments to your markup, but unfortunately
doesn't address the issue of images being turned off when CSS is left on,
and it utilises a box-model hack.

I'm interested in what the opinion on this is here - or perhaps it's been
discussed at length previously?

Cheers,

hank

- Original Message - 
From: Peter Ottery
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:18 AM
Subject: RE: [WSG] RE: Image replacement techniques for linked elements


>> James wrote:
>> I have my minimum font-size set to 12px, so
>> websites can't set text I can't read (or see for that
>> matter) - like 6px :D. I think this is rendering your (ed: smh.com.au)
plain text headers
>> to be 12px - and they are appearing over the image headers on the
>> smh.com.au home page ... making both types of headers unreadable.
GOLD medal to James in the advanced font setting relay! :D
you are the 1st person *ever* to pick that up.
seriously tho, cheers for that, a valid point indeed, and noted.
>> James then wrote:
>> I've done this on one of our new websites (text changed to make more
>> sense in this context), and it works quite well with images turned off
>> or on. Or am I missing the point of image replacement techniques?
>> 
>> 
>> 
nah i dont think yr missing the point. looks like a solid method.
The major benefit for us at present for the method we used is the lower
strain on the server. ie: having the image as a background image that is
part of the "sprite" image and called once, used repeatedly for a bunch of
other images, and eases the load on the servers a fair bit.
Can someone out there in accessibility guru land tell us if an image (only)
used as a h1 heading is as good as regular text used as a h1 heading? ie:
does the alt text on the image (in James' example above) become the defacto
"heading" and get used in the methods the screenreaders use to scan headings
on a page? At the WSG meet earlier in the year that David Woodbridge from
the Royal Blind Society came to and demo'd that shortcut used that popped up
a box with all the headings on the page listed... just wondering if an img's
alt text would show up in that list - and other similar
scenarios/readers...?
>> James wrote:
>> not sure how it works with search engines
i dont know if anyone would know for sure (other than the search engines
themselves). Google reads alt text on images - but whether it finds that alt
text within a h1 tag and then assumes that's the heading and applies the
same "points" to it when the googlebot scans the page is another thing...
pete :)

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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Wasabi]

Hi,
You bet I hang at the validation sites like the coffee bar. Cleared up 
the font issue, the remaining warnings are on the necessary hacks.

C
On Sunday, August 15, 2004, at 06:40 PM, Jim Barricks wrote:
Hey Wasabi,
Just go to http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ to validate your CSS. 
The site
will give you any errors on your site to correct.

Best,
Jim
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * 
 * *  *  *  *  *  *  *
Barricks Insurance Services  800-211-9584
508 Main Street   CA License #0383850
El Segundo, CA 90245 
http://www.barricksinsurance.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
-- WOW--What a Ride!"
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * 
 * *  *  *  *  *  *  *

- Original Message -
From: Wasabi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, August 16, 2004 9:19 am
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Critique
> Hi,
>
> Do you mean cramped? Thanks for your insight, I'm in bit of a
> boggle
> with the CSS validation issue, can you elaborate?
>
> C
>
>
> On Sunday, August 15, 2004, at 02:05 PM, Chris Stratford wrote:
>
> > The layout does look craped.
> > It ends up being very empty at the top...
> > and then all of a sudden a huge block of text, in a tiny box in
> the
> > middle...
> > then lots of empty room below again.
>
> **
> The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>
> Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
> Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
> To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
>
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
>
>
>
>
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * 
 * *  *  *  *  *  *  *
Barricks Insurance Services  800-211-9584
508 Main Street   CA License #0383850
El Segundo, CA 90245 
http://www.barricksinsurance.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
-- WOW--What a Ride!"
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * 
 * *  *  *  *  *  *  *
**
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Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
**
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Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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**

Re: [WSG] RE: Image replacement techniques for linked elements

[Rick Faaberg]

>>> websites can't set text I can't read (or see for that
>>> matter) - like 6px :D. I think this is rendering your (ed: smh.com.au) plain
>>> text headers 
>>> to be 12px - and they are appearing over the image headers on the
>>> smh.com.au home page ... making both types of headers unreadable.
> 
> GOLD medal to James in the advanced font setting relay! :D
> you are the 1st person *ever* to pick that up.
> seriously tho, cheers for that, a valid point indeed, and noted.

Now if we can just get the html/rtf emails off this list! :-)

Rick Faaberg

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 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Jim Barricks]

Hey Wasabi,
Just go to http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ to validate your CSS. The site
will give you any errors on your site to correct.
Best,
Jim
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * 
*  *  *  *  *  *  *
Barricks Insurance Services  800-211-9584
508 Main Street   CA License 
#0383850
El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.barricksinsurance.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
-- WOW--What a Ride!"
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * 
*  *  *  *  *  *  *

- Original Message -
From: Wasabi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, August 16, 2004 9:19 am
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Critique
> Hi,
>
> Do you mean cramped? Thanks for your insight, I'm in bit of a
> boggle
> with the CSS validation issue, can you elaborate?
>
> C
>
>
> On Sunday, August 15, 2004, at 02:05 PM, Chris Stratford wrote:
>
> > The layout does look craped.
> > It ends up being very empty at the top...
> > and then all of a sudden a huge block of text, in a tiny box in
> the
> > middle...
> > then lots of empty room below again.
>
> **
> The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
>
> Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
> Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
> To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
>
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
>
>
>
>
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * 
*  *  *  *  *  *  *
Barricks Insurance Services  800-211-9584
508 Main Street   CA License 
#0383850
El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.barricksinsurance.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
-- WOW--What a Ride!"
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * 
*  *  *  *  *  *  * 

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Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

RE: [WSG] RE: Image replacement techniques for linked elements

[Peter Ottery]

Title: RE: [WSG] RE: Image replacement techniques for linked elements





>> James wrote:
>> I have my minimum font-size set to 12px, so 
>> websites can't set text I can't read (or see for that 
>> matter) - like 6px :D. I think this is rendering your (ed: smh.com.au) plain text headers 
>> to be 12px - and they are appearing over the image headers on the  
>> smh.com.au home page ... making both types of headers unreadable.


GOLD medal to James in the advanced font setting relay! :D
you are the 1st person *ever* to pick that up.
seriously tho, cheers for that, a valid point indeed, and noted.


>> James then wrote:
>> I've done this on one of our new websites (text changed to make more 
>> sense in this context), and it works quite well with images turned off 
>> or on. Or am I missing the point of image replacement techniques?
>> 
>> 
>> 


nah i dont think yr missing the point. looks like a solid method.
The major benefit for us at present for the method we used is the lower strain on the server. ie: having the image as a background image that is part of the "sprite" image and called once, used repeatedly for a bunch of other images, and eases the load on the servers a fair bit.

Can someone out there in accessibility guru land tell us if an image (only) used as a h1 heading is as good as regular text used as a h1 heading? ie: does the alt text on the image (in James' example above) become the defacto "heading" and get used in the methods the screenreaders use to scan headings on a page? At the WSG meet earlier in the year that David Woodbridge from the Royal Blind Society came to and demo'd that shortcut used that popped up a box with all the headings on the page listed... just wondering if an img's alt text would show up in that list - and other similar scenarios/readers...? 

>> James wrote:
>> not sure how it works with search engines


i dont know if anyone would know for sure (other than the search engines themselves). Google reads alt text on images - but whether it finds that alt text within a h1 tag and then assumes that's the heading and applies the same "points" to it when the googlebot scans the page is another thing...

pete :)

Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Christopher Stratford]

Hey Wasabi,
Replying from uni here.

Well I mean that the website is very spaced out.
Large spaces on the sides, large image at the top and the bottom (the flash at the 
top, and the coffee at the bottom)...

then the content, is in a scrollable box in the center...
To me - it seems very cramped.

Re the CSS...
When I validated your CSS there were a few errors, one such error was that there was 
no default font set.

So when you say:

font-family: tahoma, verdana... whatever fonts...

you should include:

font-family: tahoma, verdana, san-serif;
or
font-family: tahoma, verdana, serif;

whichever font type you are using - obvioulsy I just copied that line and changed the 
last font - but you know what I am saying???
It needs a default to fall back on.

I cant remember the other errors - and havn't the time to go back and check.
but I am sure someone on the list will give you a hand!

Cheers!
- Chris Stratford


- Original Message -
From: Wasabi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, August 16, 2004 9:19 am
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Critique

> Hi,
> 
> Do you mean cramped? Thanks for your insight, I'm in bit of a 
> boggle 
> with the CSS validation issue, can you elaborate?
> 
> C
> 
> 
> On Sunday, August 15, 2004, at 02:05 PM, Chris Stratford wrote:
> 
> > The layout does look craped.
> > It ends up being very empty at the top...
> > and then all of a sudden a huge block of text, in a tiny box in 
> the 
> > middle...
> > then lots of empty room below again.
> 
> **
> The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> 
> Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
> Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
> To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
> 
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 


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The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

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 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Wasabi]

Hi,
Do you mean cramped? Thanks for your insight, I'm in bit of a boggle 
with the CSS validation issue, can you elaborate?

C
On Sunday, August 15, 2004, at 02:05 PM, Chris Stratford wrote:
The layout does look craped.
It ends up being very empty at the top...
and then all of a sudden a huge block of text, in a tiny box in the 
middle...
then lots of empty room below again.
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Wasabi]

Hi,
I don't understand, please elaborate.
C
On Sunday, August 15, 2004, at 03:14 PM, ailingwebss wrote:
Hey, Wasabi and Chris Stratford
I think make the 600*480 too much longer,
but I like the idea about use the old pictures and the flash.
also the color.
keep on
ailing
- Original Message -
From: "Chris Stratford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Critique

Hey Wasabi,
Well, the layout is tight - I guess your trying to make it a fixed 
width
layout that will work in a 600*480...
Which Personally  - I think is Overkill re: support...

Anyone with that low resolution will be very used to their friend the
horizontal scroll bar.
The tabs look a lot like www.experts-exchange.com just not blue...
Personally - I think the logo could be more - especially when below 
the
fold there are a lot of images.
the title is kind of drowned out and looks forgotten.

The layout does look craped.
It ends up being very empty at the top...
and then all of a sudden a huge block of text, in a tiny box in the
middle...
then lots of empty room below again.
Also your CSS doesnt validate 100%...
you need a default font or two (serif/san-serif)...
love the old pictures and the diner look.
hope my response can help you.
:)
great job!
- Chris Stratford
Wasabi wrote:
Hi,
After all of my inquiries, here are the goods or your review.
http://ckimedia.com
Please offer scorn and praise as warranted.
"Complexity is good, complicated is bad."
—Paolo Soleri
Chris
**
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Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**


**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
 Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[ailingwebss]

Hey, Wasabi and Chris Stratford

I think make the 600*480 too much longer, 
but I like the idea about use the old pictures and the flash.
also the color.

keep on
ailing

- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Stratford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Critique


> Hey Wasabi,
> 
> Well, the layout is tight - I guess your trying to make it a fixed width 
> layout that will work in a 600*480...
> Which Personally  - I think is Overkill re: support...
> 
> Anyone with that low resolution will be very used to their friend the 
> horizontal scroll bar.
> 
> The tabs look a lot like www.experts-exchange.com just not blue...
> 
> Personally - I think the logo could be more - especially when below the 
> fold there are a lot of images.
> the title is kind of drowned out and looks forgotten.
> 
> The layout does look craped.
> It ends up being very empty at the top...
> and then all of a sudden a huge block of text, in a tiny box in the 
> middle...
> then lots of empty room below again.
> 
> Also your CSS doesnt validate 100%...
> you need a default font or two (serif/san-serif)...
> 
> love the old pictures and the diner look.
> hope my response can help you.
> :)
> great job!
> 
> - Chris Stratford
> 
> Wasabi wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > After all of my inquiries, here are the goods or your review.
> >
> > http://ckimedia.com
> >
> > Please offer scorn and praise as warranted.
> >
> >
> > "Complexity is good, complicated is bad."
> > —Paolo Soleri
> >
> >
> > Chris
> > **
> > The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> >
> > Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
> > Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
> > To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
> >
> > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> > **
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> **
> The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> 
> Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
>  Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
> To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
> 
>  See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>  for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> **
> 
> 
> 

Re: [WSG] Site Critique

[Chris Stratford]

Hey Wasabi,
Well, the layout is tight - I guess your trying to make it a fixed width 
layout that will work in a 600*480...
Which Personally  - I think is Overkill re: support...

Anyone with that low resolution will be very used to their friend the 
horizontal scroll bar.

The tabs look a lot like www.experts-exchange.com just not blue...
Personally - I think the logo could be more - especially when below the 
fold there are a lot of images.
the title is kind of drowned out and looks forgotten.

The layout does look craped.
It ends up being very empty at the top...
and then all of a sudden a huge block of text, in a tiny box in the 
middle...
then lots of empty room below again.

Also your CSS doesnt validate 100%...
you need a default font or two (serif/san-serif)...
love the old pictures and the diner look.
hope my response can help you.
:)
great job!
- Chris Stratford
Wasabi wrote:
Hi,
After all of my inquiries, here are the goods or your review.
http://ckimedia.com
Please offer scorn and praise as warranted.
"Complexity is good, complicated is bad."
—Paolo Soleri
Chris
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**


**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

[WSG] Site Critique

[Wasabi]

Hi,
After all of my inquiries, here are the goods or your review.
http://ckimedia.com
Please offer scorn and praise as warranted.
"Complexity is good, complicated is bad."
—Paolo Soleri
Chris
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**