Re: [WSG] doing things right

[Chris Price]

Bob Schwartz wrote:
That's what I thought, but a few days ago someone made a snide remark 
about them on a test page I had put up, so I just thought I'd double 
check.


Was it because css was being used to indicate a cell was selected when 
there was no data there (nbsp)?


I'm glad you brought this up because I've just realized I have done the 
same thing with a calendar showing dates available. I've used css to 
indicate availability when the actual data tells me nothing.


Kind Regards
--
Chris Price

Choctaw

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Tel. 01524 825 245
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Re: [WSG] Table Properties Cross-Browser compatible???

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Cole Kuryakin wrote:

Question is, however, are all -- or just a few -- of these properties
 currently supported by standards-compliant browsers ... as well as 
ie6?


CSS table support is missing in all IE/win versions.


If only a few are supported by all browser types, can someone provide
 a link which tells me which ones are currently supported by all?


This list isn't complete for all browsers yet...

...but it's the best I could find.

Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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[WSG] Table Properties Cross-Browser compatible???

[Cole Kuryakin]

Hello All -

The thread Doing Things Right caught my eye as I frequently use  
between empty TDs. So, when Hassan gave the link to the tables spec I gave
it a look and was interested to see so many different table properties
listed.

Question is, however, are all -- or just a few -- of these properties
currently supported by standards-compliant browsers ... as well as ie6?

If only a few are supported by all browser types, can someone provide a link
which tells me which ones are currently supported by all?

Cole



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Re: [WSG] doing things right

[Hassan Schroeder]

Shelley Purvis wrote:
> No, they should be marked up as:
>  

Bzzzt - wrong answer -- the   is meaningless.

> Reasoning: if you don't put a holder into the cell and you
> select a border (or not) the cell border won't show on this cell
> as without content the cell collapses.

Uh, that's why CSS provides the empty-cells property:

  

FWIW,
-- 
Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com
opinion: webtuitive.blogspot.com

  dream.  code.




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Re: [WSG] asp and accessibility

[Mike Brown]

Bob Schwartz wrote:
Yes, I have an idea, but never having seen any of the devices people 
talk about here, I often have doubts about what I think I have understood.


Go here:


and listen to / look at Darren Fittler's presentation. He's blind and 
uses a screen-reader. Very informative.


Mike


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Re: [WSG] doing things right

[Anders Nawroth]

Bob Schwartz skrev:

 


AFAIK this was needed for NN4.


/AndersN


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Re: [WSG] doing things right

[Bob Schwartz]

That's what I thought, but a few days ago someone made a snide remark  
about them on a test page I had put up, so I just thought I'd double  
check.



No, they should be marked up as:
 

Reasoning: if you don't put a holder into the cell and you
select a border (or not) the cell border won't show on this cell
as without content the cell collapses.  Hense the   is the
cell packer that will hold this empty cell open.

S


[EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/03/2007 9:15:37 a.m. >>>

Someone made a comment the other day about my empty table cells
which
are marked as such;

 

Should they be only:






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Re: [WSG] asp and accessibility

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 11 Mar 2007, at 21:01:26, Bob Schwartz wrote:


Mike,

Thanks for the information.

Yes, I have an idea, but never having seen any of the devices  
people talk about here, I often have doubts about what I think I  
have understood.




Bob,

I attempted to explain something of what is going on when a  
screenreader is used with a web browser in a (poorly-titled) article at



HTH,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/





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Re: [WSG] doing things right

[Shelley Purvis]

No, they should be marked up as:
 

Reasoning: if you don't put a holder into the cell and you
select a border (or not) the cell border won't show on this cell
as without content the cell collapses.  Hense the   is the
cell packer that will hold this empty cell open.

S

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/03/2007 9:15:37 a.m. >>>
Someone made a comment the other day about my empty table cells
which  
are marked as such;

 

Should they be only:




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Re: [WSG] asp and accessibility

[Brian Cummiskey]

Bob Schwartz wrote:
Do database driven, dynamically created asp pages pass muster for 
accessibility?
At the end of the day, no matter the server-side language used, the end 
result is HTML pages.


I suppose if I could see the devices handicapped people use to surf, I 
would better understand what's going on (and be able to answer my own 
questions), but I don't know anyone who uses anything other than a 
browser or cell phone. 

there's a bunch of tools you can test with:

http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_tools.hcsp


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Re: [WSG] asp and accessibility

[Bob Schwartz]

Mike,

Thanks for the information.

Yes, I have an idea, but never having seen any of the devices people  
talk about here, I often have doubts about what I think I have  
understood.






Bob Schwartz wrote:

Do database driven, dynamically created asp pages pass muster for  
accessibility?


What makes a site accessible? Being on this list, you surely have  
some idea of the answer. But to help, some of the key things are:


- it has semantic, well-structured HTML
- in particular in uses headings well, it marks up forms and data- 
tables with appropriate accessibility features and it validates (or  
mostly validates)
- it provides options for users to "jump" to parts of a page eg  
navigation, content(ie, they don't have to tab through endless links)


Note that nowhere in there does it mention asp. Or in fact any  
server-side programming/scripting language. In terms of  
accessibility, what matters is what's outputted to the browser  
(user agent), not what language the backend is written and  
developed in.




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Re: [WSG] asp and accessibility

[Mike Brown]

Bob Schwartz wrote:

Do database driven, dynamically created asp pages pass muster for 
accessibility?


What makes a site accessible? Being on this list, you surely have some 
idea of the answer. But to help, some of the key things are:


- it has semantic, well-structured HTML
- in particular in uses headings well, it marks up forms and data-tables 
with appropriate accessibility features and it validates (or mostly 
validates)
- it provides options for users to "jump" to parts of a page eg 
navigation, content(ie, they don't have to tab through endless links)


Note that nowhere in there does it mention asp. Or in fact any 
server-side programming/scripting language. In terms of accessibility, 
what matters is what's outputted to the browser (user agent), not what 
language the backend is written and developed in.


Short answer to you question: they can and they should, but they may not.

Mike


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[WSG] doing things right

[Bob Schwartz]

Someone made a comment the other day about my empty table cells which  
are marked as such;


 

Should they be only:




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[WSG] asp and accessibility

[Bob Schwartz]

At the risk of seeming an idiot:

As I go through a site overhaul, I pop my questions here as they come  
up so...


Do database driven, dynamically created asp pages pass muster for  
accessibility?


I suppose if I could see the devices handicapped people use to surf,  
I would better understand what's going on (and be able to answer my  
own questions), but I don't know anyone who uses anything other than  
a browser or cell phone.







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Re: [WSG] target and accessibility

[Al Sparber]

From: "Designer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Al Sparber wrote:


[snip]
. . . No one is forcing you to not use "Buy Now" 20 times, on 20 
different links. . . .


Well Al, they are if I want to make an 'accessible' site which 
passes the WAI validation.  No-one is 'forcing me' not to put font 
tags in the markup, or lay it out with tables, or etc.


:-)


That's an interesting bit of logic ;-) Nevertheless, I'm glad you've 
found a solution. 





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Re: [WSG] tabindex and accesskey

[Terrence Wood]

On 4/03/2007, at 12:43 AM, David Dorward wrote:



9.5 Provide keyboard shortcuts to important links (including those  
in client-side image maps), form controls, and groups of form  
controls.


Well, technically it is a requirement of AAA level WCAG 1.0, but a  
lot of experts consider accesskeys to do more harm then good since  
they interfere with built-in keyboard shortcuts in most browsers.


You can get around this by declaring your links, form controls and  
groups of form controls as not important. ;-)


kind regards
Terrecne Wood.


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Re: [WSG] target and accessibility -solution!

[Designer]

Simon Moss wrote:
In fact there is a let-out clause - 
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#link-text - you *can* use the 
same text for different links, providing you use unique title text for 
each one...


(still irritating - but as you say - there is a point there...)

Simon




Brilliant Simon! I used the title attribute and it now passes fine! 
Thank you!


(http://www.webscribe.fsnet.co.uk/menufiles/menu.html)

(It seems many of us have a lot to learn . . . :-)

--
Bob

www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk



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Re: [WSG] target and accessibility

[Designer]

Al Sparber wrote:


[snip]
. . . No one is forcing you 
to not use "Buy Now" 20 times, on 20 different links. . . .


Well Al, they are if I want to make an 'accessible' site which passes 
the WAI validation.  No-one is 'forcing me' not to put font tags in the 
markup, or lay it out with tables, or etc.


:-)

--
Bob

www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk



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