Re: [WSG] flat form with check boxes [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Hi Chris, Why not make the printable form a word doc or pdf for them to download, rather than coding it into the page as a form or image? That way you wont confuse the users and you have the option of still making the pdf form interactive. If that's not possible then I would use an image for the check boxes with clear instructions that the page is there for printing. Darren Lovelock MunkyOnline.com On 12 Sep 2011, at 05:57, Chris Vickery chris.vick...@oaic.gov.au wrote: Hi all, We’ve got some flat forms on our site, ie. They are not interactive forms, and have no submit button. They are indicating that it’s a check list that can be ticked once the page is printed. Someone suggested putting in regular check boxes and having no submit button, but wouldn’t that make it confusing from both and accessibility and usability point of view? At the same time using a graphical or styled element with Alt tag seems messy and cringe worthy as a work around. I’ve got my own ideas, but what does everyone think is best practice in this case? Regards, Chris ** WARNING: The information contained in this email may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use or copying of any part of this information is unauthorised. If you have received this email in error, we apologise for any inconvenience and request that you notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this email, together with any attachments. ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] flat form with check boxes [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Hi Chris, So what your saying is that your current website has form elements for printing the page and then ticked and submitted like a paper form? There are a few possible ways that you could do this without involving forms that have no submit buttons, because yes it would be confusing for accessibility. the first would be similar to the suggestion but instead of having, no submit buttons you could have a print button that prints the completed form or a blank form this would probably be best for usability also. You could also do a list (ul) and have the style-type set to a image of a square box. or maybe even have a pdf of the form because pdf's are a good for material that is meant to be printed. Let us know how you go, as i'm also interested what everyone else thinks. David Thomas d...@daveycreative.com On 12/09/2011, at 12:57 PM, Chris Vickery wrote: Hi all, We’ve got some flat forms on our site, ie. They are not interactive forms, and have no submit button. They are indicating that it’s a check list that can be ticked once the page is printed. Someone suggested putting in regular check boxes and having no submit button, but wouldn’t that make it confusing from both and accessibility and usability point of view? At the same time using a graphical or styled element with Alt tag seems messy and cringe worthy as a work around. I’ve got my own ideas, but what does everyone think is best practice in this case? Regards, Chris ** WARNING: The information contained in this email may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use or copying of any part of this information is unauthorised. If you have received this email in error, we apologise for any inconvenience and request that you notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this email, together with any attachments. ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] flat form with check boxes [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Thanks Darren, In our case, it’s a requirement that we use HTML, not PDF or word. Graphical elements are an option and it’s how they’re done at the moment, but I would have thought a Jaws user would find that quite confusing. I would think a checkbox symbol would be better practice because there’s no confusion for any level of user if there’s some interaction required #9744; but I might be wrong (and you’ve got to check cross browser compatibility). I like Joseph’s idea that you could fill out the checkboxes and print rather than submit. It’s a simple eloquent solution and I think a lot of users would get value from checking some boxes that they know they’re compliant with off the top of their head, then manually go through the rest with pen and paper later. I’m not sure if we’ll be allowed to do that though. The point of the page is that it’s a checklist that people can run through to see how their business complies with a general set of rules. The page wasn’t really designed by a web person so it’s a bit unclear what the intention is, for people to read the form as general advice or actually check off each point. We don’t have the option of changing the text or going back for clarification. The way it’s written means to me, it makes more sense as a check box list but not really as an ol or ul unfortunately. There’s a couple of options that would probably pass the bar to varying degrees, but is what is the best practice? Thanks everyone for the input so far. From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Darren Lovelock Sent: Monday, 12 September 2011 3:58 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] flat form with check boxes [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] Hi Chris, Why not make the printable form a word doc or pdf for them to download, rather than coding it into the page as a form or image? That way you wont confuse the users and you have the option of still making the pdf form interactive. If that's not possible then I would use an image for the check boxes with clear instructions that the page is there for printing. Darren Lovelock MunkyOnline.comhttp://MunkyOnline.com On 12 Sep 2011, at 05:57, Chris Vickery chris.vick...@oaic.gov.aumailto:chris.vick...@oaic.gov.au wrote: Hi all, We’ve got some flat forms on our site, ie. They are not interactive forms, and have no submit button. They are indicating that it’s a check list that can be ticked once the page is printed. Someone suggested putting in regular check boxes and having no submit button, but wouldn’t that make it confusing from both and accessibility and usability point of view? At the same time using a graphical or styled element with Alt tag seems messy and cringe worthy as a work around. I’ve got my own ideas, but what does everyone think is best practice in this case? Regards, Chris ** WARNING: The information contained in this email may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use or copying of any part of this information is unauthorised. If you have received this email in error, we apologise for any inconvenience and request that you notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this email, together with any attachments. ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.orgmailto:memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.orgmailto:memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** ** WARNING: The information contained in this email may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use or copying of any part of this information is unauthorised. If you have received this email in error, we apologise for any inconvenience and request that you notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this email, together with any attachments. ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] flat form with check boxes [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Hey, If you’re looking to include elements on a page (such as a checkbox) that you do not want a screenreader to be able to access and confuse the user with then the best practice is to add role=”presentation” to the element. As defined by the WAI-ARIA spec here http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#presentation Cheers, S From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Chris Vickery Sent: Monday, 12 September 2011 4:28 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] flat form with check boxes [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] Thanks Darren, In our case, it’s a requirement that we use HTML, not PDF or word. Graphical elements are an option and it’s how they’re done at the moment, but I would have thought a Jaws user would find that quite confusing. I would think a checkbox symbol would be better practice because there’s no confusion for any level of user if there’s some interaction required #9744; but I might be wrong (and you’ve got to check cross browser compatibility). I like Joseph’s idea that you could fill out the checkboxes and print rather than submit. It’s a simple eloquent solution and I think a lot of users would get value from checking some boxes that they know they’re compliant with off the top of their head, then manually go through the rest with pen and paper later. I’m not sure if we’ll be allowed to do that though. The point of the page is that it’s a checklist that people can run through to see how their business complies with a general set of rules. The page wasn’t really designed by a web person so it’s a bit unclear what the intention is, for people to read the form as general advice or actually check off each point. We don’t have the option of changing the text or going back for clarification. The way it’s written means to me, it makes more sense as a check box list but not really as an ol or ul unfortunately. There’s a couple of options that would probably pass the bar to varying degrees, but is what is the best practice? Thanks everyone for the input so far. From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Darren Lovelock Sent: Monday, 12 September 2011 3:58 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] flat form with check boxes [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] Hi Chris, Why not make the printable form a word doc or pdf for them to download, rather than coding it into the page as a form or image? That way you wont confuse the users and you have the option of still making the pdf form interactive. If that's not possible then I would use an image for the check boxes with clear instructions that the page is there for printing. Darren Lovelock MunkyOnline.comhttp://MunkyOnline.com On 12 Sep 2011, at 05:57, Chris Vickery chris.vick...@oaic.gov.aumailto:chris.vick...@oaic.gov.au wrote: Hi all, We’ve got some flat forms on our site, ie. They are not interactive forms, and have no submit button. They are indicating that it’s a check list that can be ticked once the page is printed. Someone suggested putting in regular check boxes and having no submit button, but wouldn’t that make it confusing from both and accessibility and usability point of view? At the same time using a graphical or styled element with Alt tag seems messy and cringe worthy as a work around. I’ve got my own ideas, but what does everyone think is best practice in this case? Regards, Chris ** WARNING: The information contained in this email may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use or copying of any part of this information is unauthorised. If you have received this email in error, we apologise for any inconvenience and request that you notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this email, together with any attachments. ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.orgmailto:memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.orgmailto:memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** ** WARNING: The information contained in this email may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use or copying of any part of this information is unauthorised. If you have received this email in error, we apologise for any inconvenience and request that you notify the
Re: [WSG] flat form with check boxes [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Intention and purpose is everything.
Without a clear idea of either, it's hard to be certain on a reasonable route.
If there is no form or submit button, then the checkboxes WILL confuse screen
readers. I disagree that5 you want to indicate interaction. no-one benefits
from ticking boxes they can't submit or do anything with. I'd check but I think
having checkboxes without a form breaks WCAG2 LevelA compliance.
I like David's suggestion of making the elements an ul (you do say: The
point of the page is that it’s a checklist) and create a custom, printable
symbol, placed via CSS. for the bullet points. If done that way JAWS would
ignore them.
If you can go back, I'd consider it a form, that you check the things you DO
comply with, leave the others blank, then submit it for a score. The resulting
page can give advice on how to comply with the ones you have not done and maybe
give you a score. Which you can then print out.
but if you don't have room to suggest that then I would deffo go for David's
suggestion of the ul with a custom bullet symbol in CSS.
ul { list-style-image: url('/images/main/sqbox.gif'); }
OR
ul .chqbx { list-style-image: url('/images/main/sqbox.gif'); }
where .chqbox is the class applied to that ul
Joe
On 12/09/2011, at 16:27 , Chris Vickery wrote:
Thanks Darren,
In our case, it’s a requirement that we use HTML, not PDF or word. Graphical
elements are an option and it’s how they’re done at the moment, but I would
have thought a Jaws user would find that quite confusing. I would think a
checkbox symbol would be better practice because there’s no confusion for any
level of user if there’s some interaction required #9744; but I might be
wrong (and you’ve got to check cross browser compatibility).
I like Joseph’s idea that you could fill out the checkboxes and print rather
than submit. It’s a simple eloquent solution and I think a lot of users would
get value from checking some boxes that they know they’re compliant with off
the top of their head, then manually go through the rest with pen and paper
later. I’m not sure if we’ll be allowed to do that though.
The point of the page is that it’s a checklist that people can run through to
see how their business complies with a general set of rules. The page wasn’t
really designed by a web person so it’s a bit unclear what the intention is,
for people to read the form as general advice or actually check off each
point. We don’t have the option of changing the text or going back for
clarification.
The way it’s written means to me, it makes more sense as a check box list but
not really as an ol or ul unfortunately.
There’s a couple of options that would probably pass the bar to varying
degrees, but is what is the best practice?
Thanks everyone for the input so far.
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Darren Lovelock
Sent: Monday, 12 September 2011 3:58 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] flat form with check boxes [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Hi Chris,
Why not make the printable form a word doc or pdf for them to download,
rather than coding it into the page as a form or image?
That way you wont confuse the users and you have the option of still making
the pdf form interactive.
If that's not possible then I would use an image for the check boxes with
clear instructions that the page is there for printing.
Darren Lovelock
MunkyOnline.com
On 12 Sep 2011, at 05:57, Chris Vickery chris.vick...@oaic.gov.au wrote:
Hi all,
We’ve got some flat forms on our site, ie. They are not interactive forms,
and have no submit button. They are indicating that it’s a check list that
can be ticked once the page is printed.
Someone suggested putting in regular check boxes and having no submit button,
but wouldn’t that make it confusing from both and accessibility and usability
point of view?
At the same time using a graphical or styled element with Alt tag seems messy
and cringe worthy as a work around.
I’ve got my own ideas, but what does everyone think is best practice in this
case?
Regards,
Chris
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together with any attachments.
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