RE: [WSG] Font size and arrogance | accessibility in general I say
I would spend 95% of my time on special solutions or hacks, which are pleasing only 5% of the users. Although I wouldn't say it works out to be such a big percentage, but you are right you would spend some time on it. But you need to start spending that time on it, new laws being passed will sooner or later force you to start designing with accessibility in mind (recent cases against priceline etc). And to be fair, its not about 'pleasing' the users, it is about making the website usable to the audience. You may be focusing on font-size in your argument, but it sounds like an argument against accessibility in general. I would agree about hardware designers etc, but that just adds to Patrick's argument, people will be accessing your site with more than one resolution, you cannot predict how they will do that. By making your site have resizeable text you can accommodate them. It is harder to do, but the net gain is worth it. I wonder if this will turn into a bigger argument about fluid versus fixed designing... Tim Hill Computer Associates Graphic Artist tel: +612 9937 0792 fax: +612 9937 0546 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lothar B. Baier Sent: Friday, 19 November 2004 8:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Font size and arrogance Hi! Patrick and Andreas, you both are right on one hand. But on the other one it's not so simple. My goal is surely to produce websites, which can be use by everybody and please their eyes. But is it my fault, that dell or hp ore other produce laptops, which screensize and screen resolution are set to a default which makes it impossible to read a text easy? Is it my fault, that the designers of browsers after about 10 years of webstandards are not able to produce browsers which behave according to those standards? I don't think so. And it's also not my fault, if somebody uses a computer with little knowledge of what he is doing. To go back to the example from my last post: if someone drives a car without driverlicense and runs into a tree, is that the fault of the car's designer? Have you ever seen a user who reads the handbook before he switches on the comp? I am in the computer business for more then 25 years now. I'm still waiting for that user. What I wanted to say is that if I try to please every single user in the wolrd, I would spend 95% of my time on special solutions or hacks, which are pleasing only 5% of the users. Nobody will pay me for that 95% time. Ideals are nice in theory, but usely not realy good, when they are put into practice. So I think instead of spending a mayority of our time in finding solutions for problems, which are not caused by us, we should collect our energy to put presure on browser designers to produce browser which are standard and to hardware designers to not set the default resolution of a screen to what is technicaly possible but to just something, which is compatible with human eyesight. Lothar ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Font size and arrogance | accessibility in general I say
hardware designers to not set the default resolution of a screen to what is technicaly possible but to just something, which is compatible with human eyesight. What size, a pixel? Engineers have created full-color screens, 400 pixels square, which are smaller than a dime. Certainly setting a monitor made of such things to display 1024x768 by default (the size of a quarter!) would not be compatible with human eyesight. Font rescalability and sizing a font based on today's technology will be useful on today's technology. But tomorrow is when it will be used. Standards aren't just about helping the blind to read. Just my little thought on the matter, in no way directed at one person or another, even though I quoted a portion of one person's post. This has been an interesting, if heated, thread. I think a large part of it revolves around being unable to measure people's default font size. The arrogance vs. idealist portion of the discussion. So I'm building something to measure the default size of things. Anyone know of someone else that has already done this? I'd hate to duplicate effort. -- Ben Curtis WebSciences International http://www.websciences.org/ v: (310) 478-6648 f: (310) 235-2067 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Font size and arrogance | accessibility in general I say
Actually, Felix has some interesting studies on his site about font size, pixel, resolution relationships: http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/ And I couldn't agree more with you about stuff we design today probably not working tomorrowbut y'know, thankfully seperating content and presentation means that the content will probably stay in tact =). Terrence Wood. On 2004-11-19 1:02 PM, Ben Curtis wrote: Font rescalability and sizing a font based on today's technology will be useful on today's technology. But tomorrow is when it will be used. Standards aren't just about helping the blind to read. [snip] This has been an interesting, if heated, thread. I think a large part of it revolves around being unable to measure people's default font size. The arrogance vs. idealist portion of the discussion. So I'm building something to measure the default size of things. Anyone know of someone else that has already done this? I'd hate to duplicate effort. -- *** Are you in the Wellington area and interested in web standards? Wellington Web Standards Group inaugural meeting 9 Dec 2004. See http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/event24.cfm for details *** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Font size and arrogance | accessibility in general I say
also look here: http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/box_lesson/font/ On 2004-11-19 1:02 PM, Ben Curtis wrote: This has been an interesting, if heated, thread. I think a large part of it revolves around being unable to measure people's default font size. The arrogance vs. idealist portion of the discussion. So I'm building something to measure the default size of things. Anyone know of someone else that has already done this? I'd hate to duplicate effort. -- *** Are you in the Wellington area and interested in web standards? Wellington Web Standards Group inaugural meeting 9 Dec 2004. See http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/event24.cfm for details *** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
