Re: [WSG] MA in web development
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 9:12 PM, Marius Milcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HCI, > Databases, Dynamic Programming, (X)HTML, CSS, Usability, Design > Methodologies etc. and, as an entry requirement, that this knowledge come > from a relevant computing degree. > > M > I know that is how universities typically work, and it's silly to expect the web sections of universities to work any other way. So consider this with a grain of salt, as an unrelated rant. But it strikes me as foolish to assume that those skills could *only* come from a computing degree, and at least twice as foolish to assume that they're *likely* to have come from a computing degree. Do CS degrees really include design and usability? Do any of them actually teach database fundamentals anymore, or do they just teach "oracle"? Do any teach design, or do they just teach "illustrator and photoshop", do they teach dynamic programming, or do they teach "Java" or "c#"? Do you know of any undergraduate university course whose curriculum actually matches up to the demands that web professionals face in the real world? (if you do I'd like to know about it!), or are most of them really just lopsided short sighted, vendor sponsored courses, as I've seen in the piles of complaints and evidence? If I were hiring, or deciding who is qualified to enter post graduate studies, the presence of a degree would be the last thing I would check. Actual measurable competency is far more important, and a degree hardly guarantees that. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] MA in web development
Hi Jason I completed a BA(Internet Studies), majoring in design, at Curtin Uni nearly two years ago. I could have enrolled for the MA as the only pre-requisite was a degree, but chose breadth rather than depth for various reasons. Current course outlines for the MA: http://handbook.curtin.edu.au/courses/30/301512.html ; BA: http://handbook.curtin.edu.au/courses/30/303574.html . You can see that many of the subjects are the same: at the postgraduate level they cost more. I'd like to hope the assessment is more rigorous too, but I wouldn't like to put money on it. Getting into the nitty-gritty of the degree, I'd like to hope that any design/development assessments inlcuded accessibility as an essential assessment criterion. At post-graduate level I would certainly expect to see project management and information management either as specific subjects or as elements of broader subjects. Elizabeth Spiegel Web editing 0409 986 158 GPO Box 729, Hobart TAS 7001 www.spiegelweb.com.au From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Grant Sent: Thursday, 12 June 2008 8:31 AM To: wsg Subject: [WSG] MA in web development Hello everyone, Last night a proposal has been hinted at me to put together an MA course in web development for a UK University. That's all I have been told so far. I was wondering what people were feeling such a course ought to contain. I have my views of course, but would not like to influence the feedback at this point. All suggestions are very much appreciated. Regards, Jason Grant www.flexewebs.com/semantix *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***<>
Re: [WSG] MA in web development
I entirely agree Joe. Especially your point that web design is more akin to product design. An MA course should assume that the student has a sufficient understanding of the fundamentals involved, the fish if you will: HCI, Databases, Dynamic Programming, (X)HTML, CSS, Usability, Design Methodologies etc. and, as an entry requirement, that this knowledge come from a relevant computing degree. However I doubt whether there are enough fish in the see with this subject. That web development might be a bit too tightly focussed. A Master in Web Mastering? M 2008/6/13 Joe Ortenzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Well my first thought Marius is why you feel a need for a division between > scientific and "artistic"? > Much of web design, website creation, development, whatever you want to > call it, I would much more closely describe as something more akin to > industrial and or product design, where much more than what happens on the > server needs to be addresses. > > User-centred design for example starts with lots of study with the userbase > in order to discern what people would be expecting from the organisation or > campaign and their website. This is a starting point for a website and has > nothing to do with marketing and everything to do with creating a useful, > usable and successful site. > > But this is neither design or "scientific", (although there > are things being measured and described here). > > As I mentioned earlier, the concepts underpinning web development and > design (should I try to coin a new term of web creator?) are not new or time > sensitive. HTML 4 and XHTML have been around for many years and will be > around for the next 5 for sure and any coder worth hi salt has already > started to look at HTML 5 and XHTML 2 and trying to understand how to use > it. > > User-centred design has been around for decades nd will continue to o so. > Apache isn't a new thing and JS and PHP are long in the tooth > servers aren't going away and people still have expectations at the HCI > (Human Computer Interface) which may look a little different, but > remain essentially unchanged for the last decade at least. > > So, to reiterate, any MA course should provide the tools to "fish" rather > than the fish itself and should not allow itself to be providing significant > am amounts of training in concepts that will easily age. > > Joe > > On Jun 12 2008, at 22:36, Marius Milcher wrote: > > I'm studying BSc Business Information Technology at London South Bank > University. It has been around for nearly 10 years now. There is an MSc > available too...[1] > > At an undergraduate level we study, at length, Systems Analysis, > Information Architecture , Dynamic Programming languages (ASP, PHP) > alongside Usability and HCI. > > An initial question I have, with regard to an MA in Web Development, is > whether a scientific approach should be taken (in the form of an MSc) or > whether a an artistic/design approach should be taken (in the form of an > MA). > > Personally, if dealing with web 'development' then a scientific approach > would be desired. I think this might be a matter of debate though, given the > current and ever evolving landscape of web development and the fact is is > still an emerging discipline in many respects, as has been mentioned > regarding standards. > > I think that the subject of Web Development is an extremely exciting one > and one and one that I could be persuaded to pursue. However, I feel, given > its rapid evolution and emergence, any course structure that is agreed upon > could potentially be outdated by the time it comes to teaching it... > > Maybe in true spirit of the collaborative nature of Web 2.0 this course > could be structured and administered through wikis and taught in an > open-source way... Given the webs emergence from academia. But that I fear, > is maybe a pipe-dream... > > Thoughts?? > > Regards, > Marius Milcher > > [1] LSBU BIT Course info > http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/bcim/progs/bit/ > > -- > Marius G. Milcher > Web Design & IT Consultancy > -- > w: http://www.mariusmilcher.com > e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > t: +44(0)7961 436 733 > skype: mgmilcher > -- > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > > Joe Ortenzi > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > www.typingthevoid.com > www.joiz.com > > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > -- --
Re: [WSG] MA in web development
Well my first thought Marius is why you feel a need for a division between scientific and "artistic"? Much of web design, website creation, development, whatever you want to call it, I would much more closely describe as something more akin to industrial and or product design, where much more than what happens on the server needs to be addresses. User-centred design for example starts with lots of study with the userbase in order to discern what people would be expecting from the organisation or campaign and their website. This is a starting point for a website and has nothing to do with marketing and everything to do with creating a useful, usable and successful site. But this is neither design or "scientific", (although there are things being measured and described here). As I mentioned earlier, the concepts underpinning web development and design (should I try to coin a new term of web creator?) are not new or time sensitive. HTML 4 and XHTML have been around for many years and will be around for the next 5 for sure and any coder worth hi salt has already started to look at HTML 5 and XHTML 2 and trying to understand how to use it. User-centred design has been around for decades nd will continue to o so. Apache isn't a new thing and JS and PHP are long in the tooth servers aren't going away and people still have expectations at the HCI (Human Computer Interface) which may look a little different, but remain essentially unchanged for the last decade at least. So, to reiterate, any MA course should provide the tools to "fish" rather than the fish itself and should not allow itself to be providing significant am amounts of training in concepts that will easily age. Joe On Jun 12 2008, at 22:36, Marius Milcher wrote: I'm studying BSc Business Information Technology at London South Bank University. It has been around for nearly 10 years now. There is an MSc available too...[1] At an undergraduate level we study, at length, Systems Analysis, Information Architecture , Dynamic Programming languages (ASP, PHP) alongside Usability and HCI. An initial question I have, with regard to an MA in Web Development, is whether a scientific approach should be taken (in the form of an MSc) or whether a an artistic/design approach should be taken (in the form of an MA). Personally, if dealing with web 'development' then a scientific approach would be desired. I think this might be a matter of debate though, given the current and ever evolving landscape of web development and the fact is is still an emerging discipline in many respects, as has been mentioned regarding standards. I think that the subject of Web Development is an extremely exciting one and one and one that I could be persuaded to pursue. However, I feel, given its rapid evolution and emergence, any course structure that is agreed upon could potentially be outdated by the time it comes to teaching it... Maybe in true spirit of the collaborative nature of Web 2.0 this course could be structured and administered through wikis and taught in an open-source way... Given the webs emergence from academia. But that I fear, is maybe a pipe-dream... Thoughts?? Regards, Marius Milcher [1] LSBU BIT Course info http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/bcim/progs/bit/ -- Marius G. Milcher Web Design & IT Consultancy -- w: http://www.mariusmilcher.com e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] t: +44(0)7961 436 733 skype: mgmilcher -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.typingthevoid.com www.joiz.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] MA in web development
I think the issue is how to approach these subjects at a graduate level. Graduate studies are meant to be much more in depth and research-oriented than undergraduate studies, and are often preparatory for PhD studies. Courses at this level should address more the why of things than the how - unless this is meant to be a practical master's degree in which case I would question the purpose of offering it at a graduate level unless it will be highly specialised. An MA should look at the theories behind the web, web technologies, web design, etc as well as concrete issues in the web today and have students engage with those theories and issues through research to try to find better solutions to problems. A suggestion would be to offer courses in how to conduct research related to web design issues - for example, a course in designing, implementing and evaluating usability and accessibility tests. Is this going to be a thesis-based program, or a project-oriented program? I believe MAs in the UK are the opposite of those in Canada, which are by thesis. This would also affect the orientation of the program and its courses. You should probably seek feedback from people who have actually undertaken post-graduate studies in related fields. Those with bachelor degrees or no tertiary education will have a poor idea of what graduate studies are about. Jason On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 10:40 PM, Joseph Ortenzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I agree TW. > A good course teaches you to fish, to borrow from the ancient adage. > therefore html 4/5 is a non-issue. > > Therefore any current course would include the complete understanding of > BOTH current and emerging standards and any good student and practitioner > will constantly be remaining aware of progress. > > As for web _design_, this ALREADY includes: information architecture, > wireframing, user-centred design research and implementation, prototyping > accessibility and usability, as well as colour, layout, aesthetics. > > design is not just appearance, it is also engineering, architecture and > usability. > > > On Jun 12, 2008, at 11:10, Theresa Weber wrote: > > I disagree - all knowledge that you learn in a course becomes outdated > but you gain skills that allow you to continue to learn. Learning how to > write valid and accessible HTML is a skill that can be taught and the > graduate will then continue to improve and upgrade those skills as newer > standards standards are released. > > I liked the list that Andreas suggested. > > -- > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] > *On Behalf Of *James Jeffery > *Sent:* Thursday, 12 June 2008 5:30 PM > *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org > *Subject:* Re: [WSG] MA in web development > > Personally I would see a course in Web Design pointless. > > I am doing Computer Science, but with Computer Science the foundations tend > to rarley change. If you set up a Masters in Web Design it's likley it would > become invalid after a while, especially when HTML 5 and CSS 3 replace the > current HTML and CSS. > > If it's purley in design then it should cover usability, accessiblity, > aesthetics, design blah blah. The stuff that is unlikley to change. > > Personally though I would focus on Computer Science and if i wanted to be > good at design take up a course in Art or Graphic Design. At least that way > you can use your skills more widely. > > James > > On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Kevin Lennon < > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> aboehmer wrote: >> >> It could contain a pile of subjects, depending on how far you want to take >> it. Here just some ideas: >> >> HTML/CSS >> Multimedia (Video, Flash, Podcasts, etc) >> Basics in Programming (PHP/VB, etc) >> Usability >> Accessibility >> Search Engine Optimisation >> Basics in Graphic Design (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc) >> Introduction to Networks/Hosting environments >> >> You could even chuck in some electives of Business subjects. Masters >> students would probably want to get their head around Project Management as >> well...? >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> Andreas. >> >> >> -Original message- >> From: "Jason Grant" [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:30:36 +1000 >> To: wsg wsg@webstandardsgroup.org >> Subject: [WSG] MA in web development >> >> >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> Last night a proposal has been hinted at me to put together an MA course in >> web development for a UK University. That's all I have been told so far. >> >> I was wondering what people were feeling such
Re: [WSG] MA in web development
I'm studying BSc Business Information Technology at London South Bank University. It has been around for nearly 10 years now. There is an MSc available too...[1] At an undergraduate level we study, at length, Systems Analysis, Information Architecture , Dynamic Programming languages (ASP, PHP) alongside Usability and HCI. An initial question I have, with regard to an MA in Web Development, is whether a scientific approach should be taken (in the form of an MSc) or whether a an artistic/design approach should be taken (in the form of an MA). Personally, if dealing with web 'development' then a scientific approach would be desired. I think this might be a matter of debate though, given the current and ever evolving landscape of web development and the fact is is still an emerging discipline in many respects, as has been mentioned regarding standards. I think that the subject of Web Development is an extremely exciting one and one and one that I could be persuaded to pursue. However, I feel, given its rapid evolution and emergence, any course structure that is agreed upon could potentially be outdated by the time it comes to teaching it... Maybe in true spirit of the collaborative nature of Web 2.0 this course could be structured and administered through wikis and taught in an open-source way... Given the webs emergence from academia. But that I fear, is maybe a pipe-dream... Thoughts?? Regards, Marius Milcher [1] LSBU BIT Course info http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/bcim/progs/bit/ -- Marius G. Milcher Web Design & IT Consultancy -- w: http://www.mariusmilcher.com e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] t: +44(0)7961 436 733 skype: mgmilcher -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] MA in web development
On 12 Jun 2008, at 13:40, Joseph Ortenzi wrote: A good course teaches you to fish, to borrow from the ancient adage. therefore html 4/5 is a non-issue. Therefore any current course would include the complete understanding of BOTH current and emerging standards and any good student and practitioner will constantly be remaining aware of progress. As for web _design_, this ALREADY includes: information architecture, wireframing, user-centred design research and implementation, prototyping accessibility and usability, as well as colour, layout, aesthetics. design is not just appearance, it is also engineering, architecture and usability. Hear hear. -- Rick Lecoat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] MA in web development
I agree TW. A good course teaches you to fish, to borrow from the ancient adage. therefore html 4/5 is a non-issue. Therefore any current course would include the complete understanding of BOTH current and emerging standards and any good student and practitioner will constantly be remaining aware of progress. As for web _design_, this ALREADY includes: information architecture, wireframing, user-centred design research and implementation, prototyping accessibility and usability, as well as colour, layout, aesthetics. design is not just appearance, it is also engineering, architecture and usability. On Jun 12, 2008, at 11:10, Theresa Weber wrote: I disagree - all knowledge that you learn in a course becomes outdated but you gain skills that allow you to continue to learn. Learning how to write valid and accessible HTML is a skill that can be taught and the graduate will then continue to improve and upgrade those skills as newer standards standards are released. I liked the list that Andreas suggested. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Jeffery Sent: Thursday, 12 June 2008 5:30 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] MA in web development Personally I would see a course in Web Design pointless. I am doing Computer Science, but with Computer Science the foundations tend to rarley change. If you set up a Masters in Web Design it's likley it would become invalid after a while, especially when HTML 5 and CSS 3 replace the current HTML and CSS. If it's purley in design then it should cover usability, accessiblity, aesthetics, design blah blah. The stuff that is unlikley to change. Personally though I would focus on Computer Science and if i wanted to be good at design take up a course in Art or Graphic Design. At least that way you can use your skills more widely. James On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Kevin Lennon <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: aboehmer wrote: It could contain a pile of subjects, depending on how far you want to take it. Here just some ideas: HTML/CSS Multimedia (Video, Flash, Podcasts, etc) Basics in Programming (PHP/VB, etc) Usability Accessibility Search Engine Optimisation Basics in Graphic Design (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc) Introduction to Networks/Hosting environments You could even chuck in some electives of Business subjects. Masters students would probably want to get their head around Project Management as well...? Hope this helps. Andreas. -Original message- From: "Jason Grant" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:30:36 +1000 To: wsg wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] MA in web development Hello everyone, Last night a proposal has been hinted at me to put together an MA course in web development for a UK University. That's all I have been told so far. I was wondering what people were feeling such a course ought to contain. I have my views of course, but would not like to influence the feedback at this point. All suggestions are very much appreciated. Regards, Jason Grant www.flexewebs.com/semantix *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Andreas Boehmer User Experience Consultant Addictive Media Phone: (03) 9386 8907 Mobile: 0411 097 038 http://www.addictivemedia.com.au Consulting | Accessibility | Usability | Development *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** I am currently enrolled in a Web Design and Interactive Media BS degree program. I have been teaching myself for almost 4 years at home intensively prior to going into this venture. I have to say that is offering this degree is teaching its students many things that are not compliant with the international standards in general. The fact of the matter is that I believe that the entire school is in it for the money more thne teaching the students the right and professional way to be a web designer and developer. As far as curriculum goes be sure they teach the standards or dont get involved at all.First off. Secondly I would suggest that you include a few server side programming languages like PHP and JSP. Be sure to also cover in depth DBMS as well. Other universities such as the University of Scranton offer MS degrees in Software Engineering which you may get some ideas from as well. http://academic.scranton.edu/department/gradsch/gsofteng.htm Hope that helps. I know after reading that I ha
RE: [WSG] MA in web development
I disagree - all knowledge that you learn in a course becomes outdated but you gain skills that allow you to continue to learn. Learning how to write valid and accessible HTML is a skill that can be taught and the graduate will then continue to improve and upgrade those skills as newer standards standards are released. I liked the list that Andreas suggested. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Jeffery Sent: Thursday, 12 June 2008 5:30 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] MA in web development Personally I would see a course in Web Design pointless. I am doing Computer Science, but with Computer Science the foundations tend to rarley change. If you set up a Masters in Web Design it's likley it would become invalid after a while, especially when HTML 5 and CSS 3 replace the current HTML and CSS. If it's purley in design then it should cover usability, accessiblity, aesthetics, design blah blah. The stuff that is unlikley to change. Personally though I would focus on Computer Science and if i wanted to be good at design take up a course in Art or Graphic Design. At least that way you can use your skills more widely. James On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Kevin Lennon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: aboehmer wrote: It could contain a pile of subjects, depending on how far you want to take it. Here just some ideas: HTML/CSS Multimedia (Video, Flash, Podcasts, etc) Basics in Programming (PHP/VB, etc) Usability Accessibility Search Engine Optimisation Basics in Graphic Design (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc) Introduction to Networks/Hosting environments You could even chuck in some electives of Business subjects. Masters students would probably want to get their head around Project Management as well...? Hope this helps. Andreas. -Original message- From: "Jason Grant" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:30:36 +1000 To: wsg wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] MA in web development Hello everyone, Last night a proposal has been hinted at me to put together an MA course in web development for a UK University. That's all I have been told so far. I was wondering what people were feeling such a course ought to contain. I have my views of course, but would not like to influence the feedback at this point. All suggestions are very much appreciated. Regards, Jason Grant www.flexewebs.com/semantix *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Andreas Boehmer User Experience Consultant Addictive Media Phone: (03) 9386 8907 Mobile: 0411 097 038 http://www.addictivemedia.com.au Consulting | Accessibility | Usability | Development *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** I am currently enrolled in a Web Design and Interactive Media BS degree program. I have been teaching myself for almost 4 years at home intensively prior to going into this venture. I have to say that is offering this degree is teaching its students many things that are not compliant with the international standards in general. The fact of the matter is that I believe that the entire school is in it for the money more thne teaching the students the right and professional way to be a web designer and developer. As far as curriculum goes be sure they teach the standards or dont get involved at all.First off. Secondly I would suggest that you include a few server side programming languages like PHP and JSP. Be sure to also cover in depth DBMS as well. Other universities such as the University of Scranton offer MS degrees in Software Engineering which you may get some ideas from as well. http://academic.scranton.edu/department/gradsch/gsofteng.htm Hope that helps. I know after reading that I have decided to quit my current college and go to the University of Scranton as I believe I will actually learn things there unlike at my current accredited college. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubsc
RE: [WSG] MA in web development
What kind of students will the course be aimed at? Arts graduates? Scientists? Mike From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Grant Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:31 PM To: wsg Subject: [WSG] MA in web development Hello everyone, Last night a proposal has been hinted at me to put together an MA course in web development for a UK University. That's all I have been told so far. I was wondering what people were feeling such a course ought to contain. I have my views of course, but would not like to influence the feedback at this point. All suggestions are very much appreciated. Regards, Jason Grant www.flexewebs.com/semantix *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] MA in web development
Jason Grant wrote: All suggestions are very much appreciated. You might want to have a look at the MIT Software Engineering for Web Applications course for ideas: http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Electrical-Engineering-and-Computer-Science/6-171Fall2003/CourseHome/ There's also a book and video lectures available. Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] MA in web development
Personally I would see a course in Web Design pointless. I am doing Computer Science, but with Computer Science the foundations tend to rarley change. If you set up a Masters in Web Design it's likley it would become invalid after a while, especially when HTML 5 and CSS 3 replace the current HTML and CSS. If it's purley in design then it should cover usability, accessiblity, aesthetics, design blah blah. The stuff that is unlikley to change. Personally though I would focus on Computer Science and if i wanted to be good at design take up a course in Art or Graphic Design. At least that way you can use your skills more widely. James On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Kevin Lennon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > aboehmer wrote: > > It could contain a pile of subjects, depending on how far you want to take > it. Here just some ideas: > > HTML/CSS > Multimedia (Video, Flash, Podcasts, etc) > Basics in Programming (PHP/VB, etc) > Usability > Accessibility > Search Engine Optimisation > Basics in Graphic Design (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc) > Introduction to Networks/Hosting environments > > You could even chuck in some electives of Business subjects. Masters students > would probably want to get their head around Project Management as well...? > > Hope this helps. > > Andreas. > > > -Original message- > From: "Jason Grant" [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:30:36 +1000 > To: wsg wsg@webstandardsgroup.org > Subject: [WSG] MA in web development > > > > Hello everyone, > > Last night a proposal has been hinted at me to put together an MA course in > web development for a UK University. That's all I have been told so far. > > I was wondering what people were feeling such a course ought to contain. > > I have my views of course, but would not like to influence the feedback at > this point. > > All suggestions are very much appreciated. > > Regards, > > Jason Grantwww.flexewebs.com/semantix > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > > > Andreas Boehmer > User Experience Consultant > > Addictive Media > Phone: (03) 9386 8907 > Mobile: 0411 097 038http://www.addictivemedia.com.au > Consulting | Accessibility | Usability | Development > > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > > > > > > I am currently enrolled in a Web Design and Interactive Media BS degree > program. I have been teaching myself for almost 4 years at home intensively > prior to going into this venture. I have to say that is offering this degree > is teaching its students many things that are not compliant with the > international standards in general. > > The fact of the matter is that I believe that the entire school is in it > for the money more thne teaching the students the right and professional > way to be a web designer and developer. As far as curriculum goes be sure > they teach the standards or dont get involved at all.First off. Secondly I > would suggest that you include a few server side programming languages like > PHP and JSP. Be sure to also cover in depth DBMS as well. > > Other universities such as the University of Scranton offer MS degrees in > Software Engineering which you may get some ideas from as well. > > http://academic.scranton.edu/department/gradsch/gsofteng.htm > > Hope that helps. I know after reading that I have decided to quit my > current college and go to the University of Scranton as I believe I will > actually learn things there unlike at my current accredited college. > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] MA in web development
aboehmer wrote: It could contain a pile of subjects, depending on how far you want to take it. Here just some ideas: HTML/CSS Multimedia (Video, Flash, Podcasts, etc) Basics in Programming (PHP/VB, etc) Usability Accessibility Search Engine Optimisation Basics in Graphic Design (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc) Introduction to Networks/Hosting environments You could even chuck in some electives of Business subjects. Masters students would probably want to get their head around Project Management as well...? Hope this helps. Andreas. -Original message- From: "Jason Grant" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:30:36 +1000 To: wsg wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] MA in web development Hello everyone, Last night a proposal has been hinted at me to put together an MA course in web development for a UK University. That's all I have been told so far. I was wondering what people were feeling such a course ought to contain. I have my views of course, but would not like to influence the feedback at this point. All suggestions are very much appreciated. Regards, Jason Grant www.flexewebs.com/semantix *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Andreas Boehmer User Experience Consultant Addictive Media Phone: (03) 9386 8907 Mobile: 0411 097 038 http://www.addictivemedia.com.au Consulting | Accessibility | Usability | Development *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** I am currently enrolled in a Web Design and Interactive Media BS degree program. I have been teaching myself for almost 4 years at home intensively prior to going into this venture. I have to say that is offering this degree is teaching its students many things that are not compliant with the international standards in general. The fact of the matter is that I believe that the entire school is in it for the money more thne teaching the students the right and professional way to be a web designer and developer. As far as curriculum goes be sure they teach the standards or dont get involved at all.First off. Secondly I would suggest that you include a few server side programming languages like PHP and JSP. Be sure to also cover in depth DBMS as well. Other universities such as the University of Scranton offer MS degrees in Software Engineering which you may get some ideas from as well. http://academic.scranton.edu/department/gradsch/gsofteng.htm Hope that helps. I know after reading that I have decided to quit my current college and go to the University of Scranton as I believe I will actually learn things there unlike at my current accredited college. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] MA in web development
> > > What is this hinted university thinking of or already offering at the > undergraduate level? > > mark > > That's what I would like to know as well. Jason *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] MA in web development
Is this technical web development or more information design/IA? There are a few universities in the USA doing IA that you might want to look at also M :) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of aboehmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 12 June 2008 1:11 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] MA in web development It could contain a pile of subjects, depending on how far you want to take it. Here just some ideas: HTML/CSS Multimedia (Video, Flash, Podcasts, etc) Basics in Programming (PHP/VB, etc) Usability Accessibility Search Engine Optimisation Basics in Graphic Design (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc) Introduction to Networks/Hosting environments You could even chuck in some electives of Business subjects. Masters students would probably want to get their head around Project Management as well...? Hope this helps. Andreas. -Original message- From: "Jason Grant" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:30:36 +1000 To: wsg wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] MA in web development > Hello everyone, > > Last night a proposal has been hinted at me to put together an MA course in > web development for a UK University. That's all I have been told so far. > > I was wondering what people were feeling such a course ought to contain. > > I have my views of course, but would not like to influence the feedback at > this point. > > All suggestions are very much appreciated. > > Regards, > > Jason Grant > www.flexewebs.com/semantix > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > Andreas Boehmer User Experience Consultant Addictive Media Phone: (03) 9386 8907 Mobile: 0411 097 038 http://www.addictivemedia.com.au Consulting | Accessibility | Usability | Development *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** NOTICE - This communication is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking any action in reliance on, this communication by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please delete and destroy all copies and telephone SMS Management & Technology on 9696 0911 immediately. Any views expressed in this Communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of SMS Management & Technology. Except as required by law, SMS Management & Technology does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free from errors, virus, interception or interference. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] MA in web development
aboehmer wrote: > It could contain a pile of subjects, depending on how far you want to take it. Here just some ideas: > > HTML/CSS > Multimedia (Video, Flash, Podcasts, etc) > Basics in Programming (PHP/VB, etc) > Usability > Accessibility > Search Engine Optimisation > Basics in Graphic Design (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc) > Introduction to Networks/Hosting environments This is all Bachelors level, IMHO, the bare bones of what a web technology degree should provide. > You could even chuck in some electives of Business subjects. > Masters students would probably want to get their head > around Project Management as well...? I would think, for a Masters level degree, you'd start at the business end - why stuff is done, rather than how. The how should be at the undergraduate level. My list would be along the lines of: * Information Architecture * Business needs analysis * Process analysis * System architecture * Business life cycle * All phases of project management and documentation * Business negotiation skills * Web standards development * Usability standards development What is this hinted university thinking of or already offering at the undergraduate level? mark *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] MA in web development
It could contain a pile of subjects, depending on how far you want to take it. Here just some ideas: HTML/CSS Multimedia (Video, Flash, Podcasts, etc) Basics in Programming (PHP/VB, etc) Usability Accessibility Search Engine Optimisation Basics in Graphic Design (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc) Introduction to Networks/Hosting environments You could even chuck in some electives of Business subjects. Masters students would probably want to get their head around Project Management as well...? Hope this helps. Andreas. -Original message- From: "Jason Grant" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:30:36 +1000 To: wsg wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] MA in web development > Hello everyone, > > Last night a proposal has been hinted at me to put together an MA course in > web development for a UK University. That's all I have been told so far. > > I was wondering what people were feeling such a course ought to contain. > > I have my views of course, but would not like to influence the feedback at > this point. > > All suggestions are very much appreciated. > > Regards, > > Jason Grant > www.flexewebs.com/semantix > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > Andreas Boehmer User Experience Consultant Addictive Media Phone: (03) 9386 8907 Mobile: 0411 097 038 http://www.addictivemedia.com.au Consulting | Accessibility | Usability | Development *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] MA in web development
Hello everyone, Last night a proposal has been hinted at me to put together an MA course in web development for a UK University. That's all I have been told so far. I was wondering what people were feeling such a course ought to contain. I have my views of course, but would not like to influence the feedback at this point. All suggestions are very much appreciated. Regards, Jason Grant www.flexewebs.com/semantix *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
