Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
On 5 Jan 2010, at 06:40, Jayachandran Kandasamy wrote: Use padding / margin thru CSS instead of BRs... OK, so I want: Mary had a little lamb, little lamb, little lamb, Mary had a little lamb, whose fleece was white as snow. So I would mark this up as: p Mary had a little lamb, br little lamb, little lamb, br Mary had a little lamb, br whose fleece was white as snow. /p Please show us how to achieve this effect with margin and padding instead of line breaks. (It is a slightly different usecase to the one originally described, but the same principles apply) -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
I'm sorry but that is ridiculous. We are talking about a poem and I assure you that the lines have a very definite semantic significance. Therefore the separation of the text into lines *must* be retained even in the absence of CSS. Any solution other than the br tag is needlessly complicated. Though perhaps pre might be acceptable in the case of concrete poetry. But some thing like this http://blog.richmond.edu/openwidelookinside/files/2008/12/shape-poem-01.gif can only be presented as an image. Andrew Sent from my iPod On Jan 5, 2010, at 1:40 AM, Jayachandran Kandasamy jayachandran.kandas...@gmail.com wrote: Use padding / margin thru CSS instead of BRs... Thank u On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson ch...@cfajohnson.com wrote: On Mon, 4 Jan 2010, Jayachandran Kandasamy wrote: Hi Dwaal, Please dont practice to use BR tags for line breaks.. Why not? That's what they're for. it is not standard web development The W3C says otherwise. and lot of compatibility issues will occur across browsers and internet devices :) :) ??? Can you be more specific? Of course one shouldn't use them in continuous blocks of text (the browser will take care of it), but where a line break is needed they are fine. On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:12 AM, Frances de Waal dw...@mac.com wrote: Hi there, May I ask your opinion about some semantic/HTML basics? In case of a poem, if I place every verse in a paragraph, what do I do with each line of text in the verse? Is this one of the very few occasions to use breaks? A verse doesn't seem a list to me... or is it? I like your opinion. In the very few tutorials I have seen about how to markup a form semantically, both were using a list in the form. To me that seems totally unneccessary plus too much markup. Does anyone know what can be the reason of doing it that way? InContextEditing, the online CMS from Adobe, needs a extra div for every editable region. This makes me avoiding the tool. Some keep saying that extra divs don't make any difference to a page at all. I agree they have no meaning semantically, but they do create extra code which is not neccessary for the content. But then again, we don't talk about 100 divs here. So, besides of best practice, is there any place where the extra divs may have bad influence? Frances de Waal www.waalweb.nl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfajohnson.com === Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
Hi, Andrew makes sense :) What you can do is.. use pre/pre tags for the poem lines you just type the lines how should it look inside the pre tags. So you can include PRE tags for every stanzas and maintain the gap between them with CSS padding. Thanks, Jayachandran On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Andrew and...@andrewmaben.com wrote: I'm sorry but that is ridiculous. We are talking about a poem and I assure you that the lines have a very definite semantic significance. Therefore the separation of the text into lines *must* be retained even in the absence of CSS. Any solution other than the br tag is needlessly complicated. Though perhaps pre might be acceptable in the case of concrete poetry. But some thing like this http://blog.richmond.edu/openwidelookinside/files/2008/12/shape-poem-01.gifcan only be presented as an image. Andrew Sent from my iPod On Jan 5, 2010, at 1:40 AM, Jayachandran Kandasamy jayachandran.kandas...@gmail.com wrote: Use padding / margin thru CSS instead of BRs... Thank u On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson ch...@cfajohnson.comwrote: On Mon, 4 Jan 2010, Jayachandran Kandasamy wrote: Hi Dwaal, Please dont practice to use BR tags for line breaks.. Why not? That's what they're for. it is not standard web development The W3C says otherwise. and lot of compatibility issues will occur across browsers and internet devices :) :) ??? Can you be more specific? Of course one shouldn't use them in continuous blocks of text (the browser will take care of it), but where a line break is needed they are fine. On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:12 AM, Frances de Waal dw...@mac.com wrote: Hi there, May I ask your opinion about some semantic/HTML basics? In case of a poem, if I place every verse in a paragraph, what do I do with each line of text in the verse? Is this one of the very few occasions to use breaks? A verse doesn't seem a list to me... or is it? I like your opinion. In the very few tutorials I have seen about how to markup a form semantically, both were using a list in the form. To me that seems totally unneccessary plus too much markup. Does anyone know what can be the reason of doing it that way? InContextEditing, the online CMS from Adobe, needs a extra div for every editable region. This makes me avoiding the tool. Some keep saying that extra divs don't make any difference to a page at all. I agree they have no meaning semantically, but they do create extra code which is not neccessary for the content. But then again, we don't talk about 100 divs here. So, besides of best practice, is there any place where the extra divs may have bad influence? Frances de Waal www.waalweb.nl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfajohnson.com === Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
Please send me the price list of the same :) On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 3:58 AM, Paco Lira paco.l...@gmail.com wrote: hello everybody, im having a out of business sale , my partner ship finish and im going on my own but we ened to sell the equipment. 1. Mac Pro G5 Specs: G5 Quad Core 2.5 = 4 x 2.5 Processing power Ram = 16GB (two months old) HDD = Brand New Samsung TB (1000GB) x2 Optional 2x(Samsung 22 ultra sharp) 2. Canon 500D with 18-55mm 3. Canon 18-135mm 4. Mac Mini with 4GB and snow leopard 6 months old 5. View sonic 32 LCD TV if any questions please let me know. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
Hi Dwaal, Please dont practice to use BR tags for line breaks.. it is not standard web development and lot of compatibility issues will occur across browsers and internet devices :) :) Thanks, JC On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:12 AM, Frances de Waal dw...@mac.com wrote: Hi there, May I ask your opinion about some semantic/HTML basics? In case of a poem, if I place every verse in a paragraph, what do I do with each line of text in the verse? Is this one of the very few occasions to use breaks? A verse doesn't seem a list to me... or is it? I like your opinion. In the very few tutorials I have seen about how to markup a form semantically, both were using a list in the form. To me that seems totally unneccessary plus too much markup. Does anyone know what can be the reason of doing it that way? InContextEditing, the online CMS from Adobe, needs a extra div for every editable region. This makes me avoiding the tool. Some keep saying that extra divs don't make any difference to a page at all. I agree they have no meaning semantically, but they do create extra code which is not neccessary for the content. But then again, we don't talk about 100 divs here. So, besides of best practice, is there any place where the extra divs may have bad influence? Frances de Waal www.waalweb.nl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
Can you ship it to India also? Thanks Regards Raghvendra http://rohittripathi.blogspot.com/ Tripathi SEO Executive www.linkedin.com/in/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/raghvendratripathi raghvendratripathi outbind://55/Raghvendra_files/image002.jpg US: +1 408.540.0001 UK: +44 208.099.1660 India : +91 124.474.8100 FAX: +1 408.516.9050 Mobile: +91 756668 http://www.otssolutions.com http://www.otssolutions.com/ _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Jayachandran Kandasamy Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 6:14 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Cc: paco.l...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs Please send me the price list of the same :) On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 3:58 AM, Paco Lira paco.l...@gmail.com wrote: hello everybody, im having a out of business sale , my partner ship finish and im going on my own but we ened to sell the equipment. 1. Mac Pro G5 Specs: G5 Quad Core 2.5 = 4 x 2.5 Processing power Ram = 16GB (two months old) HDD = Brand New Samsung TB (1000GB) x2 Optional 2x(Samsung 22 ultra sharp) 2. Canon 500D with 18-55mm 3. Canon 18-135mm 4. Mac Mini with 4GB and snow leopard 6 months old 5. View sonic 32 LCD TV if any questions please let me know. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** === Private, Confidential and Privileged. This e-mail and any files and attachments transmitted with it are confidential and/or privileged. They are intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. The content of this e-mail and any file or attachment transmitted with it may have been changed or altered without the consent of the author. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that any review, dissemination, disclosure, alteration, printing, circulation or Transmission of this e-mail and/or any file or attachment transmitted with it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail or any file or attachment transmitted with it in error please notify OTS Solutions at i...@otssolutions.com === *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
On Mon, 4 Jan 2010, Jayachandran Kandasamy wrote: Hi Dwaal, Please dont practice to use BR tags for line breaks.. Why not? That's what they're for. it is not standard web development The W3C says otherwise. and lot of compatibility issues will occur across browsers and internet devices :) :) ??? Can you be more specific? Of course one shouldn't use them in continuous blocks of text (the browser will take care of it), but where a line break is needed they are fine. On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:12 AM, Frances de Waal dw...@mac.com wrote: Hi there, May I ask your opinion about some semantic/HTML basics? In case of a poem, if I place every verse in a paragraph, what do I do with each line of text in the verse? Is this one of the very few occasions to use breaks? A verse doesn't seem a list to me... or is it? I like your opinion. In the very few tutorials I have seen about how to markup a form semantically, both were using a list in the form. To me that seems totally unneccessary plus too much markup. Does anyone know what can be the reason of doing it that way? InContextEditing, the online CMS from Adobe, needs a extra div for every editable region. This makes me avoiding the tool. Some keep saying that extra divs don't make any difference to a page at all. I agree they have no meaning semantically, but they do create extra code which is not neccessary for the content. But then again, we don't talk about 100 divs here. So, besides of best practice, is there any place where the extra divs may have bad influence? Frances de Waal www.waalweb.nl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfajohnson.com === Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
Use padding / margin thru CSS instead of BRs... Thank u On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson ch...@cfajohnson.comwrote: On Mon, 4 Jan 2010, Jayachandran Kandasamy wrote: Hi Dwaal, Please dont practice to use BR tags for line breaks.. Why not? That's what they're for. it is not standard web development The W3C says otherwise. and lot of compatibility issues will occur across browsers and internet devices :) :) ??? Can you be more specific? Of course one shouldn't use them in continuous blocks of text (the browser will take care of it), but where a line break is needed they are fine. On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:12 AM, Frances de Waal dw...@mac.com wrote: Hi there, May I ask your opinion about some semantic/HTML basics? In case of a poem, if I place every verse in a paragraph, what do I do with each line of text in the verse? Is this one of the very few occasions to use breaks? A verse doesn't seem a list to me... or is it? I like your opinion. In the very few tutorials I have seen about how to markup a form semantically, both were using a list in the form. To me that seems totally unneccessary plus too much markup. Does anyone know what can be the reason of doing it that way? InContextEditing, the online CMS from Adobe, needs a extra div for every editable region. This makes me avoiding the tool. Some keep saying that extra divs don't make any difference to a page at all. I agree they have no meaning semantically, but they do create extra code which is not neccessary for the content. But then again, we don't talk about 100 divs here. So, besides of best practice, is there any place where the extra divs may have bad influence? Frances de Waal www.waalweb.nl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfajohnson.com === Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
Hi Jamie, So good to hear it from people who actually use speech. I also think it makes most sense to use a paragraph for each verse and a break per line. After avoiding breaks I begin to get used on the idea. Thanks, Frances Op 30 dec 2009, om 15:41 heeft Smith, Jamie het volgende geschreven: I work for Blind Services. This was an interesting question, so I sought out two folks that use speech and benefit from coding correctly. The two blind folks that use speech , one an English major, one a verse writer, noted they would prefer that the code was done so verses equate to paragraph. They don’t want to read poems as lists. And both often use the paragraph level to read poems to better enjoy them. Paragraph by line, they both noted would make it too choppy if using the paragraph level to read the poem. So, I’d use the paragraph code at the front of the verse, each line having a line break. From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Frances de Waal Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 3:42 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs Hi there, May I ask your opinion about some semantic/HTML basics? In case of a poem, if I place every verse in a paragraph, what do I do with each line of text in the verse? Is this one of the very few occasions to use breaks? A verse doesn't seem a list to me... or is it? I like your opinion. In the very few tutorials I have seen about how to markup a form semantically, both were using a list in the form. To me that seems totally unneccessary plus too much markup. Does anyone know what can be the reason of doing it that way? InContextEditing, the online CMS from Adobe, needs a extra div for every editable region. This makes me avoiding the tool. Some keep saying that extra divs don't make any difference to a page at all. I agree they have no meaning semantically, but they do create extra code which is not neccessary for the content. But then again, we don't talk about 100 divs here. So, besides of best practice, is there any place where the extra divs may have bad influence? Frances de Waal www.waalweb.nl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
Definitely, the way speech readers noted they would like it. From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Ben Buchanan Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:42 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs In case of a poem, if I place every verse in a paragraph, what do I do with each line of text in the verse? Is this one of the very few occasions to use breaks? A verse doesn't seem a list to me... or is it? I like your opinion. This one has been debated a few times and it seems to come down to two common suggestions; paragraphs + breaks, or pre. I think both are fine, although I prefer paragraphs and breaks unless the poem has particularly significant formatting which requires pre. So, in order of preference... p First line of poembr / Middle line of poembr / Last line of poem/p Semantically fine, since the meaning relies on line breaks and I'm happy to consider each verse as a paragraph. Or.. pre The author put this line over here but this one here this one way over here ...and the form and layout is part of the poem's message /pre (hopefully that whitespace will survive ;)). Semantically ok as the content is preformatted. It's not strong semantics but there's not much else to work with and it gets the job done. In the very few tutorials I have seen about how to markup a form semantically, both were using a list in the form. To me that seems totally unneccessary plus too much markup. Does anyone know what can be the reason of doing it that way? Some people feel that each line of the form is the next step in a list of items to be filled out, and also to make the grouping clear; others are simply being pragmatic about the need for something to work with for style. I'm sure there will be other reasons too. It's not required, but I don't think it's a bad technique. Personally I'm quite comfortable putting each line of a form into a div (for complex forms you need *something*); but I tend to use fieldset+legend to ensure the grouping is obvious. Hope that helps :) cheers, Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
Return Receipt Your RE: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less document: divs wasadam.r...@centrelink.gov.au received by: at:31/12/2009 08:31:46 ** IMPORTANT: This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is confidential, commercially valuable or subject to legal or parliamentary privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any review, re-transmission, disclosure, use or dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited by several Commonwealth Acts of Parliament. If you have received this communication in error please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
Return Receipt Your RE: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less document: divs wasadam.r...@centrelink.gov.au received by: at:31/12/2009 08:33:03 ** IMPORTANT: This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is confidential, commercially valuable or subject to legal or parliamentary privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any review, re-transmission, disclosure, use or dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited by several Commonwealth Acts of Parliament. If you have received this communication in error please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
Hi, I never thought of using pre but of course that also is an option to use in a poem. And no secret need for a list in a form as I thought. And more or less divs... nobody feels anything about this issue, that's ok, I suppose no user-agent will stumble over more divs, it is just less clean. I was just focused on InContextEditing but of course many other CMS's need just as well more divs, I realised after. Thanks for your reply! Frances de Waal www.waalweb.nl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
It's ok to use a double br / in this case :) Cheers, Rae 2009/12/7 Frances de Waal dw...@mac.com Hi there, May I ask your opinion about some semantic/HTML basics? In case of a poem, if I place every verse in a paragraph, what do I do with each line of text in the verse? Is this one of the very few occasions to use breaks? A verse doesn't seem a list to me... or is it? I like your opinion. In the very few tutorials I have seen about how to markup a form semantically, both were using a list in the form. To me that seems totally unneccessary plus too much markup. Does anyone know what can be the reason of doing it that way? InContextEditing, the online CMS from Adobe, needs a extra div for every editable region. This makes me avoiding the tool. Some keep saying that extra divs don't make any difference to a page at all. I agree they have no meaning semantically, but they do create extra code which is not neccessary for the content. But then again, we don't talk about 100 divs here. So, besides of best practice, is there any place where the extra divs may have bad influence? Frances de Waal www.waalweb.nl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- --- Rae Buerckner E: rae.buerck...@gmail.com M: +61 404 675 028 W: http://www.raebuerckner.com ACT Adobe Products User Group Manager http://groups.adobe.com/groups/8980662cdb/summary *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
On Sun, 6 Dec 2009, Frances de Waal wrote:
Hi there,
May I ask your opinion about some semantic/HTML basics?
In case of a poem, if I place every verse in a paragraph, what do I do with
each line of text in the verse? Is this one of the very few occasions to use
breaks? A verse doesn't seem a list to me... or is it? I like your opinion.
In the very few tutorials I have seen about how to markup a form semantically,
both were using a list in the form. To me that seems totally unneccessary
plus too much markup. Does anyone know what can be the reason of doing it that
way?
InContextEditing, the online CMS from Adobe, needs a extra div for every
editable region. This makes me avoiding the tool. Some keep saying that extra
divs don't make any difference to a page at all. I agree they have no meaning
semantically, but they do create extra code which is not neccessary for the
content. But then again, we don't talk about 100 divs here. So, besides of
best practice, is there any place where the extra divs may have bad influence?
I would use pre:
pre class=poem
In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure-dome decree:
Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
Through caverns measureless to man
Down to a sunless sea.
/pre
pre.poem
{
font-family: , serif;
}
--
Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster http://woodbine-gerrard.com
===
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
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Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
hello everybody, im having a out of business sale , my partner ship finish and im going on my own but we ened to sell the equipment. 1. Mac Pro G5 Specs: G5 Quad Core 2.5 = 4 x 2.5 Processing power Ram = 16GB (two months old) HDD = Brand New Samsung TB (1000GB) x2 Optional 2x(Samsung 22 ultra sharp) 2. Canon 500D with 18-55mm 3. Canon 18-135mm 4. Mac Mini with 4GB and snow leopard 6 months old 5. View sonic 32 LCD TV if any questions please let me know. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[ADMIN] OFF TOPIC - CLOSED Items for Sale Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
im having a out of business sale , my partner ship finish and im going on my own but we ened to sell the equipment. THIS THREAD IS CLOSED - WSG IS NOT A CLASSIFIEDS FORUM. (The original thread, about breaks etc is still open) Lea *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [ADMIN] OFF TOPIC - CLOSED Items for Sale Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
sorry my mistake i must put this address by mistake , my bad i just send it to all my contacts On 12/7/09, Lea de Groot w...@elysiansystems.com wrote: im having a out of business sale , my partner ship finish and im going on my own but we ened to sell the equipment. THIS THREAD IS CLOSED - WSG IS NOT A CLASSIFIEDS FORUM. (The original thread, about breaks etc is still open) Lea *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
In case of a poem, if I place every verse in a paragraph, what do I do with each line of text in the verse? Is this one of the very few occasions to use breaks? A verse doesn't seem a list to me... or is it? I like your opinion. This one has been debated a few times and it seems to come down to two common suggestions; paragraphs + breaks, or pre. I think both are fine, although I prefer paragraphs and breaks unless the poem has particularly significant formatting which requires pre. So, in order of preference... p First line of poembr / Middle line of poembr / Last line of poem/p Semantically fine, since the meaning relies on line breaks and I'm happy to consider each verse as a paragraph. Or.. pre The author put this line over here but this one here this one way over here ...and the form and layout is part of the poem's message /pre (hopefully that whitespace will survive ;)). Semantically ok as the content is preformatted. It's not strong semantics but there's not much else to work with and it gets the job done. In the very few tutorials I have seen about how to markup a form semantically, both were using a list in the form. To me that seems totally unneccessary plus too much markup. Does anyone know what can be the reason of doing it that way? Some people feel that each line of the form is the next step in a list of items to be filled out, and also to make the grouping clear; others are simply being pragmatic about the need for something to work with for style. I'm sure there will be other reasons too. It's not required, but I don't think it's a bad technique. Personally I'm quite comfortable putting each line of a form into a div (for complex forms you need *something*); but I tend to use fieldset+legend to ensure the grouping is obvious. Hope that helps :) cheers, Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
