RE: [WSG] Action to force browser developers to clean up their act

2004-06-09 Thread Giles Clark
] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Nick Gleitzman Sent: 09 June 2004 02:21 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Action to force browser developers to clean up their act On Wednesday, June 9, 2004, at 10:26 AM, Peter Firminger wrote: > Could it be that your site is broken, not the browser?

RE: [WSG] Action to force browser developers to clean up their act

2004-06-08 Thread Hill, Tim
In response to Peter Firminger's response; "If you have to use a multitude of hacks to get your design to work in IE then you just plain built it wrong. Ask for help. That's what this list is for." "Using hacks to fix what you're doing (probably for pixel perfection) is a far bigger problem than

Re: [WSG] Action to force browser developers to clean up their act

2004-06-08 Thread Nick Gleitzman
On Wednesday, June 9, 2004, at 10:26 AM, Peter Firminger wrote: Could it be that your site is broken, not the browser? We don't have any trouble accommodating IE with standards compliant code. I think your taking the argument too far and blaming the tool. There are very few issues remaining if

Re: [WSG] Action to force browser developers to clean up their act

2004-06-08 Thread Nick Lo
The first step should be a clear and unequivocal statement that we will not write fixes for new non-compliant browsers. Design a new Browser by all means, but make it compliant. By "non-compliant" you mean that they do not adhere to the standards put down by the W3C whose role is the development

RE: [WSG] Action to force browser developers to clean up their act

2004-06-08 Thread Peter Firminger
Nick, > No, no - I'm not suggesting for a second we should *only* develop for > IE, or any other certain browsers! Just the opposite - I make a point > of delivering my clients' message to the maximum number of visitors. > And I'm not bitter; just realistic. That's why I say 'IE is here to > stay'

Re: [WSG] Action to force browser developers to clean up their act

2004-06-08 Thread Nick Gleitzman
On Wednesday, June 9, 2004, at 01:41 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If we are going to make sites that only work in certain browsers why not just code to IE's standards and not bother with the obscure browsers like firefox and opera. That way we don't need standards at all! I can have my marqu

Re: [WSG] Action to force browser developers to clean up their act

2004-06-08 Thread dan
If we are going to make sites that only work in certain browsers why not just code to IE's standards and not bother with the obscure browsers like firefox and opera. That way we don't need standards at all! I can have my marquee tag back and my ActiveX controls - Ill be able to do all kinds of g

Re: [WSG] Action to force browser developers to clean up their act

2004-06-08 Thread Nick Gleitzman
On Tuesday, June 8, 2004, at 08:11 PM, Giles Clark wrote: Isn't it about time we took a more active role in shaping the future of browsers. We could clearly state that as a community we write/develop for a list of acceptable browsers which comply to standards (we're just going to have to live w

RE: [WSG] Action to force browser developers to clean up their act

2004-06-08 Thread Patrick Lauke
> It seems to me that the web developer/designer community spends a huge > amount of time whinging about the browser developers and > their product's > non-compliance, when the answer to the problem lies in their > own hands. The onus is shared between content developers, browser developers, use

[WSG] Action to force browser developers to clean up their act

2004-06-08 Thread Giles Clark
It seems to me that the web developer/designer community spends a huge amount of time whinging about the browser developers and their product's non-compliance, when the answer to the problem lies in their own hands. Our apparent willingness to jump through testing/bug-fix hoops because of the newe