Re: [WSG] Markup for Poetry?

[Ben Buchanan]

I'm working on a website that contains a number of poems. Are there
any discussions or examples on strategies for marking up and styling
poetry? I haven't started doing markup yet, but if it would help
folks on the list, I could that and post the links.


As is usually the case, the bare markup really guides things - ie. be
careful of solutions using  + CSS to generate lines, since that
disappears without CSS.

Generally,  with  is best where the lines are important but
there's no special whitespace (the majority of poetry). It's one of
the extremely rare situations where  really is a part of the
content.

For unusual whitespace  is generally the best solution.

Then style accordingly.

cheers,

Ben

--
--- 
--- The future has arrived; it's just not
--- evenly distributed. - William Gibson


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Re: [WSG] Markup for Poetry?

[Kenny Graham]

Are there any discussions or examples
on strategies for marking up and styling
poetry?


If you're simply looking for line breaks where they belong, use 
[1]. If you're including poems where whitespace plays a bigger
role[2], use .

[1] until xhtml2, with its  element (which i reallly hope gets renamed)
[2] e.e cummings, dylan thomas, etc.


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Re: [WSG] Markup for Poetry?

[Joshua Street]

On 3/30/07, Jeremy Boggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I'm working on a website that contains a number of poems. Are there
any discussions or examples on strategies for marking up and styling
poetry? I haven't started doing markup yet, but if it would help
folks on the list, I could that and post the links.


We discussed this sometime back in 2004, and I've got a bit of an
overview of everything that happened here:
http://josh.st/blog/2004/10/24/the-indentation-problem

My preferred solution to come out of it was:


   Line 1
   Line 2
   Line 3
   Line 4


There are a range of other possibilities listed on that page, also.

In most real-world practice, most websites use non-breaking spaces
extensively. This is, obviously, less than ideal in terms of unbloated
& semantic markup!

--
Joshua Street

http://josh.st/blog/
+61 (0) 425 808 469


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Re: [WSG] Markup for Poetry?

[David Hucklesby]

On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:50:09 -0400, Jeremy Boggs wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm working on a website that contains a number of poems. Are there any 
> discussions or
> examples on strategies for marking up and styling poetry? I haven't started 
> doing
> markup yet, but if it would help folks on the list, I could that and post the 
> links.
>

Does this help? -



Cordially,
David
--



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Re: [WSG] Markup for Poetry?

[Marghanita da Cruz]

Tee G. Peng wrote:


On Mar 29, 2007, at 5:24 PM, Christian Montoya wrote:


On 3/29/07, Jeremy Boggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hello,

I'm working on a website that contains a number of poems. Are there
any discussions or examples on strategies for marking up and styling
poetry? I haven't started doing markup yet, but if it would help
folks on the list, I could that and post the links.



If the visual formatting of the poem is important to you (say, visual
poems that have extra whitespace a the beginning or middle of lines)
then you will probably need to use the  tag.



Hi Jeremy, I was going to ask this question last week :), but decided  
to do a google search first... and ended in this article by Molly E.  
Holzschlag.


http://www.molly.com/2005/04/29/p-vs-pre/

No conclusive answer there however I decided to go with one of the  
comment left.








Thanks for asking the question!

ditto,
some time ago, I came across the poems of Du Fu...
see


Also check out

which uses  - which I don't recognise.

Marghanita
--
Marghanita da Cruz
http://www.ramin.com.au/linux
Telephone: 0414-869202
Ramin Communications Pty Ltd
ABN: 027-089-713-084





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RE: [WSG] Markup for Poetry?

[Philip Kiff]

Jeremy Boggs wrote:
> Are there
> any discussions or examples on strategies for marking up and styling
> poetry?

I don't know of a set of guidelines for simple markup of poetry in X/HTML,
but you can find some discussions about it as well as some more involved
methods of marking up such texts through the "Text Encoding Initiative"
(TEI):
http://www.tei-c.org/

TEI uses SGML markup, which theoretically could then be run through a parser
to produce whatever flavour of X/HTML one wanted.  But because it requires
its own DTD or a server-side XSLT/translator of some sort, it is probably
not what you are looking for.  If you are really interested in poetry markup
however, they have done some fairly extensive thinking about it.

For e.g., check out

A Gentle Introduction to SGML:
http://xml.coverpages.org/gentle.html

or

TEI - 4 Encoding the Body - 4.3. Prose, Verse and Drama:
http://www.tei-c.org/Lite/U5-body.html#vedr

In actual practice, if you are just encoding a couple poems, then I think
that the simple use of either  or  +  as suggested by others
makes more sense.

Phil.



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Re: [WSG] Markup for Poetry?

[Tee G. Peng]

On Mar 29, 2007, at 5:24 PM, Christian Montoya wrote:


On 3/29/07, Jeremy Boggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hello,

I'm working on a website that contains a number of poems. Are there
any discussions or examples on strategies for marking up and styling
poetry? I haven't started doing markup yet, but if it would help
folks on the list, I could that and post the links.


If the visual formatting of the poem is important to you (say, visual
poems that have extra whitespace a the beginning or middle of lines)
then you will probably need to use the  tag.



Hi Jeremy, I was going to ask this question last week :), but decided  
to do a google search first... and ended in this article by Molly E.  
Holzschlag.


http://www.molly.com/2005/04/29/p-vs-pre/

No conclusive answer there however I decided to go with one of the  
comment left.








Thanks for asking the question!

tee


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Re: [WSG] Markup for Poetry?

[Christian Montoya]

On 3/29/07, Jeremy Boggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hello,

I'm working on a website that contains a number of poems. Are there
any discussions or examples on strategies for marking up and styling
poetry? I haven't started doing markup yet, but if it would help
folks on the list, I could that and post the links.


If the visual formatting of the poem is important to you (say, visual
poems that have extra whitespace a the beginning or middle of lines)
then you will probably need to use the  tag.

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com


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Re: [WSG] Markup for Poetry?

[Blake]

On 3/30/07, Jeremy Boggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I'm working on a website that contains a number of poems. Are there
any discussions or examples on strategies for marking up and styling
poetry?


Poetry is one of the few times when it's semantically correct to use
, IMO. For example, something like this could be okay:

Dulce Et Decorum Est

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of disappointed shells that dropped behind.
GAS! Gas! Quick, boys!— An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And floundering like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

Wilfred Owen



--
Australian Web Designer - http://www.blakehaswell.com/


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[WSG] Markup for Poetry?

[Jeremy Boggs]

Hello,

I'm working on a website that contains a number of poems. Are there  
any discussions or examples on strategies for marking up and styling  
poetry? I haven't started doing markup yet, but if it would help  
folks on the list, I could that and post the links.


Thanks in advance!
Jeremy




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