Re: [WSG] More on understanding html5
- Original Message - From: "Keryx Web" To: Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] More on understanding html5 2010-01-05 13:59, designer skrev: > I am getting a bit bogged down with this new stuff! > I used in this case: is still being discussed and no real decision has benn made. The proposal to use dt/dd in fugure and details seem to have been shot down and new elements for captioning these are being discussed. Then again, and or might be totally scrapped. There are other parts of HTML5 that have reached a higher level of maturity. One should probably start using them. BTW. the validator does not change with every spec change. For issues like this the best resource to consult is probably HTML5 doctor or the WHAT WG help list. (The help list, not the main discussion list.) *** Hi Lars, Yes, I am starting to realise that you are right. So many of the features of html5 have little or no browser support and the syntax changes often. The standard few 'safe' elements seem to be and In my view these don't yet add anything worthwhile to my pages, except perhaps better code readability, and this is/can be countered by excessive verbosity. My own (somewhat clumsy) efforts can be seen at: www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk - here, (on the portfolio page) I have used with a floated image to present data as we used to do with tables, but since I have used the and approach, it may be consigned to the bin anytime soon. html5 all seems a bit of a mess, at least at this time. Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] More on understanding html5
2010-01-05 13:59, designer skrev: > I am getting a bit bogged down with this new stuff! > I used in this case: is still being discussed and no real decision has benn made. The proposal to use dt/dd in fugure and details seem to have been shot down and new elements for captioning these are being discussed. Then again, and or might be totally scrapped. There are other parts of HTML5 that have reached a higher level of maturity. One should probably start using them. BTW. the validator does not change with every spec change. For issues like this the best resource to consult is probably HTML5 doctor or the WHAT WG help list. (The help list, not the main discussion list.) -- Keryx Web (Lars Gunther) http://keryx.se/ http://twitter.com/itpastorn/ http://itpastorn.blogspot.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] More on understanding html5
On 5 Jan 2010, at 13:33, Darren Lovelock wrote: > But then again html5 seems to not need opening or closing tags in a lot of > cases, as it accommodates for a more sloppy way of coding and therefore the > validator may be incorrect. HTML4 doesn't require opening or closing tags in many cases either. In this case, however, dt and dd elements are children of the figure element, not a dl element with optional start/end tags. > Here it doesn't say to use a definition list, just a legend and an img tag > for adding a caption to an image - > http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-html5/ That article is 2.5 years old. For something as unstable as HTML5, I'd ignore it. > This site however says the html5 spec was changed to use the > instead but there are still problems with it - > http://html5doctor.com/dd-details-wrong-again/ That is more of a problem with Internet Explorer. It is recovering from the "error" in the "HTML 4.x" in a very strange and illogical way. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] More on understanding html5
I dont know html5 but a definition list should be in html4: But then again html5 seems to not need opening or closing tags in a lot of cases, as it accommodates for a more sloppy way of coding and therefore the validator may be incorrect. Here it doesn't say to use a definition list, just a legend and an img tag for adding a caption to an image - http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-html5/ This site however says the html5 spec was changed to use the instead but there are still problems with it - http://html5doctor.com/dd-details-wrong-again/ The article says - In short, details and figure solve a common design pattern and provide nice new semantic tags to solve that problem. A figure could be an image you're referring to in an article or chapter of a book, and the details element allows the user to interactively show and hide the details of some piece of information. Darren Lovelock Munky Online Web Design <http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/> http://www.munkyonline.co.uk T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893 _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of designer Sent: 05 January 2010 12:59 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] More on understanding html5 I am getting a bit bogged down with this new stuff! I used in this case: Marram Grass and the (experimental) validator said that was fine. Someone pointed out to me that this is 'wrong' and that the should be and : Bubbles at work So I changed my code to: Marram Grass and the validator says: 1. Error <http://validator.w3.org/images/info_icons/error.png> Line 78, Column 24: Element dd not allowed as child of element figure in this context. (Suppressing further errors from this subtree.) Contexts in which element <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dd-element> dd may be used: After <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dt-element> dt or <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dd-element> dd elements inside <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dl-element> dl elements. In a <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-figure-element> figure element containing no other <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dd-element> dd element children. As the last child of a <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-details-element> details element. Content model for element <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-figure-element> figure: In any order, one <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dd-element> dd element, and optionally one <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dt-element> dt element. 2. Error <http://validator.w3.org/images/info_icons/error.png> Line 81, Column 24: Element dt not allowed as child of element figure in this context. (Suppressing further errors from this subtree.) Marram Grass Contexts in which element <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dt-element> dt may be used: Before <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dd-element> dd or <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dt-element> dt elements inside <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dl-element> dl elements. In a <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-figure-element> figure element containing no other <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dt-element> dt element children. As the first child of a <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-details-element> details element. Content model for element <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-figure-element> figure: In any order, one <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dd-element> dd element, and optionally one <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-dt-element> dt element. So, is the validator wrong? And, if so, where do I get guidance as I bumble along? Duh? Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***<>
Re: [WSG] More on understanding html5
On 5 Jan 2010, at 12:59, designer wrote: > I used in this case: > > >height="400"/> > > Marram Grass > > As an aside, you might want to test in Lynx (which is a quick and cheap way to get some idea of how any non-graphical user agent is likely to encounter your data - including GoogleBot and any screen reader). marram gress Marram Grass … isn't very useful. > So, is the validator wrong? Yes. > And, if so, where do I get guidance as I bumble along? The most recent draft of the specification. Other users. Following the working group mailing list. Remember, HTML5 is a work in progress. The specification is unstable. Tools (validators, browsers, generators, etc) that use it will be out of date. It is not ready for prime time. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] More on understanding html5
I am getting a bit bogged down with this new stuff! I used in this case: Marram Grass and the (experimental) validator said that was fine. Someone pointed out to me that this is 'wrong' and that the should be and : Bubbles at work So I changed my code to: Marram Grass and the validator says: 1.. Line 78, Column 24: Element dd not allowed as child of element figure in this context. (Suppressing further errors from this subtree.) Contexts in which element dd may be used: After dt or dd elements inside dl elements. In a figure element containing no other dd element children. As the last child of a details element. Content model for element figure: In any order, one dd element, and optionally one dt element. 2.. Line 81, Column 24: Element dt not allowed as child of element figure in this context. (Suppressing further errors from this subtree.) Marram GrassContexts in which element dt may be used: Before dd or dt elements inside dl elements. In a figure element containing no other dt element children. As the first child of a details element. Content model for element figure: In any order, one dd element, and optionally one dt element. So, is the validator wrong? And, if so, where do I get guidance as I bumble along?Duh? Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** <>
