Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread Stuart Foulstone
CSS classes are for presentation.
Content is content.
Centering content is presentation.
Class names should not use keywords such as center.
centre is not a keyword and can be used.
The class centre can then be used anywhere centering is desired.

It is quite easy to remember what this class name does, but if you wish to
use some more obscure name, feel free.


On Sat, May 3, 2008 2:33 pm, Joseph Taylor wrote:
 FYI - Adding such a named class, especially with the name center or
 center goes against separation of presentation and content.

 In a situation where your HTML looks like:

 div
 div class=centre
 my images /
 /div
 div class=centre
 my images /
 /div
 div class=centre
 my images /
 /div
 /div

 You should change it to something like:

 div id=my_section
 div
 my images /
 /div
 div
 my images /
 /div
 div
 my images /
 /div
 /div


 Then your CSS rule could look more like:

 #my_section div {
 text-align: center;
 margin: 5px;
 }

 One day you'll wish that div didn't have the class name of center,
 especially if there are a bunch of them. Just give an id to the
 container that would hold them all and use your css selectors to isolate
 the elements you wish to style.

 In the end, either choice will create the same effect. This one is a
 little more future proof.

 Joseph R. B. Taylor
 /Designer / Developer/
 --
 Sites by Joe, LLC
 /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
 Phone: (609) 335-3076
 Fax: (866) 301-8045
 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



 Stuart Foulstone wrote:
 Or use a CSS class to do the same,

 div class=”centre” 

 and

 .centre {
   text-align: center;
 }

 On Sat, May 3, 2008 10:22 am, Diego La Monica wrote:

 What about div style=”text-align: center” ?





 Diego La Monica

 Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità

 mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica

 web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it



   _

 Da: Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Inviato: sabato 3 maggio 2008 11.15
 A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Oggetto: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?



 Hi,



 I know that the align attribute such as div align=”center” is not
 allowed
 in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible
 alternatives
 are for a dynamic environment such as a forum?



 For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the
 images
 will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width and
 use
 margin: 5px auto as an example.



 What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how many
 images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. I’ve resorted to
 creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=”center” as that is the
 only
 way
 I can think of.



 Are these scenarios always doomed to use transitional doctypes and
 deprecated code?



 I’d be interested in your opinions



 Cheers

 Simon


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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread Chris Price




Stuart Foulstone wrote:

  CSS classes are for presentation.
Content is content.
Centering content is presentation.
Class names should not use keywords such as "center".
"centre" is not a keyword and can be used.
The class "centre" can then be used anywhere centering is desired.

It is quite easy to remember what this class name does, but if you wish to
use some more obscure name, feel free.
  

But the class attribute (centre) is not css. css is what you apply to
that class.

Markup is markup.
Css is css.
-- 
Kind
Regards
Chris
Price


[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.choctaw.co.uk
Tel.
01524 825 245

Mob. 0777 451 4488
Beauty
is in the Eye of the Beholder while

Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional
~~

Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd 
~~
Choctaw
Media Limited is a company registered in

England and Wales with company number 04627649

Registered
Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close,

St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB  United Kingdom




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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread Patrick H. Lauke

Stuart Foulstone wrote:


It is quite easy to remember what this class name does, but if you wish to
use some more obscure name, feel free.


And if, at a later date, you change the CSS for a different layout, you 
potentially end up with class names that suggest one thing when they 
actually do another (e.g. .centre { float: left; } ) ...


P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__


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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread russ - maxdesign
 CSS classes are for presentation.
 Content is content.
 Centering content is presentation.
 Class names should not use keywords such as center.
 centre is not a keyword and can be used.
 The class centre can then be used anywhere centering is desired.
 
 It is quite easy to remember what this class name does, but if you wish to
 use some more obscure name, feel free.
   
 But the class attribute (centre) is not css. css is what you apply to that
 class.
 
 Markup is markup.
 Css is css.

Is it just me or has this list suddenly become a Zen poem society?
Russ





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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread David Dorward


On 4 May 2008, at 12:47, Stuart Foulstone wrote:


CSS classes are for presentation.


There is no such thing as a CSS class. CSS is for presentation. HTML  
has classes. CSS selectors can match against HTML classes.



Content is content.


True


Centering content is presentation.


True


Class names should not use keywords such as center.


The specification does not forbid this. Keywords are context  
sensitive. It is generally good coding style to avoid it as it reduces  
confusion, but good coding style also suggests that HTML class names  
focus on the WHY not the WHAT - i.e. the reason for the presentation,  
not what the presentation is.


--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/




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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread Joseph Taylor
I suppose it wouldn't matter if you used a class or id, but the id can 
be linked to from within the document, so if your page had a table of 
contents or something, you could jump from point to point.


Id's have to be unique on the page, so they are perfect for attaching to 
the unique sections of the document, so you could structure a document like:


div id=header
   div id=logo /
   div id=nav /
/div
div id=content /
   div id=main_content /
   div id=sub_content /
/div
div id=footer /

This makes css more specific. I can easily say make all text in my main 
content 100%, but sub content should be smaller and lighter lets say:


#main_content {
   font-size: 100%;
   color: #000;
   }

#sub_content {
   font-size: 80%;
   color: #666;
   }

Or you could get really specific, lets say the only links on the page 
that wouldn't be underlined would be links within unordered list items 
that are nested within other list items, and only in the subcontent section:


#subcontent ul li ul li a {
   text-decoration: none;
   }

Any other links in lists would be left alone.  This specificity with no 
extra classes - all thanks to one id set on a parent element.


As far separation, the less classes etc you have in your document the 
better I say since the raw document needs none.  As soon as you add 
classes etc you begin to intertwine the two.  Obviously its a huge 
improvement from tag soup even with a bunch of classes all over the place.


Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Michael Horowitz wrote:
Can you explain to me a little bit more of the  theory of why you 
would want to use and id vs a class called center is this type of 
situation.


Trying to understand more how this becomes an issue of separating 
presentation and content.


Thanks

Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



Joseph Taylor wrote:
FYI - Adding such a named class, especially with the name center or 
center goes against separation of presentation and content.


In a situation where your HTML looks like:

div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
/div

You should change it to something like:

div id=my_section
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
/div


Then your CSS rule could look more like:

#my_section div {
text-align: center;
margin: 5px;
}

One day you'll wish that div didn't have the class name of center, 
especially if there are a bunch of them. Just give an id to the 
container that would hold them all and use your css selectors to 
isolate the elements you wish to style.


In the end, either choice will create the same effect. This one is a 
little more future proof.


Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Stuart Foulstone wrote:

Or use a CSS class to do the same,

div class=”centre” 

and

.centre {
  text-align: center;
}

On Sat, May 3, 2008 10:22 am, Diego La Monica wrote:
 

What about div style=”text-align: center” ?





Diego La Monica

Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità

mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica

web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it



  _

Da: Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Inviato: sabato 3 maggio 2008 11.15
A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Oggetto: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?



Hi,



I know that the align attribute such as div align=”center” is not
allowed
in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible 
alternatives

are for a dynamic environment such as a forum?



For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the
images
will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width 
and

use
margin: 5px auto as an example.



What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how 
many

images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. I’ve resorted to
creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=”center” as that is the 
only

way
I can think of.



Are these scenarios always doomed to use transitional doctypes and
deprecated code?



I’d be interested in your opinions



Cheers

Simon


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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread Joseph Taylor
Yes, its really easy to add class names as you need them and there is a 
level where it seems both logical and usefuul.


Sadly that is not the reality though.  Patrick hit the nail in the head 
when he mentioned changing designs and having that once relevant class 
name end up attaching styles that no longer match the name you 
originally chose.


Adding a class name of centre is just as bad as picking something like 
red. 

If you take a step back when preparing to apply classes to things, 
you'll find that you are always thinking all the links in the nav 
section or something to that effect, hence using the single class or id 
on the parent element and selectors to achieve what you want.


To climb down fro the soapbox and into a working reality you have to 
break these rules sometimes.  Every page I've ever made that uses any 
floats has somewhere a:


div class=clear/div

with matching css:

div.clear {
   clear: both;
   }

I could come up with fancy workarounds but in the midst of deadlines 
I'll add one superfluous element anytime.


Same thing with my navigations:

I always:

ul
   lia href=#Link Textspan/span/a/li
/ul

Yes, the extra span shouldn't be there. Having it there always me to 
perform elegant image replacements and degrades gracefully.  The mere 
site of that HTML may send some of our members to instantly flame that 
practice.


The bottom line is that there is a pleasant middle ground that exists 
between perfect standards compliance and accomplishing what you want.  
Like anything else you should only break the rules if you know the rules 
- just in case


Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



IceKat wrote:
How is using a name which is descriptive and easy to remember and 
understand (like for those coming in after you've written the code) 
going against that separation? It's not actually putting the styling 
in the html and if anything it saves coding. If you have a class of 
center then you can define it in your stylesheet as

.center{
   text-align: center
}
and anything has that attribute, including divs, headings, paragraphs 
etc. Imagine creating and writing a class for everything like that 
which needs it! You'd wind up with 50 extra lines of code and a bigger 
file and therefore longer download time.


Plus if it's a class then you don't have to worry about it being used 
more than once on a page and you know exactly which name to use when 
you need that attribute as will anyone else who comes across it later.


IceKat


Joseph Taylor wrote:
FYI - Adding such a named class, especially with the name center or 
center goes against separation of presentation and content.


In a situation where your HTML looks like:

div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
/div

You should change it to something like:

div id=my_section
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
/div


Then your CSS rule could look more like:

#my_section div {
text-align: center;
margin: 5px;
}

One day you'll wish that div didn't have the class name of center, 
especially if there are a bunch of them. Just give an id to the 
container that would hold them all and use your css selectors to 
isolate the elements you wish to style.


In the end, either choice will create the same effect. This one is a 
little more future proof.


Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Stuart Foulstone wrote:

Or use a CSS class to do the same,

div class=”centre” 

and

.centre {
  text-align: center;
}

On Sat, May 3, 2008 10:22 am, Diego La Monica wrote:
 

What about div style=”text-align: center” ?





Diego La Monica

Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità

mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica

web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it



  _

Da: Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Inviato: sabato 3 maggio 2008 11.15
A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Oggetto: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?



Hi,



I know that the align attribute such as div align=”center” is not
allowed
in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible 
alternatives

are for a dynamic environment such as a forum?



For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the
images
will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width 
and

use
margin: 5px auto as an example.



What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how 
many

images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. I’ve resorted to
creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=”center” as that is the 
only

way
I can think of.



Are 

Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread Stuart Foulstone

http://www.w3schools.com/CSS/css_syntax.asp

The class Selector

With the class selector you can define different styles for the same type
of HTML element.

Say that you would like to have two types of paragraphs in your document:
one right-aligned paragraph, and one center-aligned paragraph. Here is how
you can do it with styles:

p.right {text-align: right}
p.center {text-align: center}

You have to use the class attribute in your HTML document:

p class=right
This paragraph will be right-aligned.
/p

p class=center
This paragraph will be center-aligned.
/p


On Sun, May 4, 2008 1:12 pm, Chris Price wrote:
 Stuart Foulstone wrote:
 CSS classes are for presentation.
 Content is content.
 Centering content is presentation.
 Class names should not use keywords such as center.
 centre is not a keyword and can be used.
 The class centre can then be used anywhere centering is desired.

 It is quite easy to remember what this class name does, but if you wish
 to
 use some more obscure name, feel free.

 But the class attribute (centre) is not css. css is what you apply to
 that class.

 Markup is markup.
 Css is css.
 --

 Kind Regards


   Chris Price
   Choctaw

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 www.choctaw.co.uk http://www.choctaw.co.uk

 Tel. 01524 825 245
 Mob. 0777 451 4488

 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while
 Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional

 ~~

   Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd 

 ~~

 Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in
 England and Wales with company number 04627649

 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close,
 St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB . United Kingdom



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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread Viable Design
W3Schools is not related to or sanctioned by the W3C.



On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:


 http://www.w3schools.com/CSS/css_syntax.asp

 The class Selector

 With the class selector you can define different styles for the same type
 of HTML element.

 Say that you would like to have two types of paragraphs in your document:
 one right-aligned paragraph, and one center-aligned paragraph. Here is how
 you can do it with styles:

 p.right {text-align: right}
 p.center {text-align: center}

 You have to use the class attribute in your HTML document:

 p class=right
 This paragraph will be right-aligned.
 /p

 p class=center
 This paragraph will be center-aligned.
 /p


 On Sun, May 4, 2008 1:12 pm, Chris Price wrote:
  Stuart Foulstone wrote:
  CSS classes are for presentation.
  Content is content.
  Centering content is presentation.
  Class names should not use keywords such as center.
  centre is not a keyword and can be used.
  The class centre can then be used anywhere centering is desired.
 
  It is quite easy to remember what this class name does, but if you wish
  to
  use some more obscure name, feel free.
 
  But the class attribute (centre) is not css. css is what you apply to
  that class.
 
  Markup is markup.
  Css is css.
  --
 
  Kind Regards
 
 
Chris Price
Choctaw
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.choctaw.co.uk http://www.choctaw.co.uk
 
  Tel. 01524 825 245
  Mob. 0777 451 4488
 
  Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while
  Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional
 
  ~~
 
Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd 
 
  ~~
 
  Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in
  England and Wales with company number 04627649
 
  Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close,
  St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB . United Kingdom
 
 
 
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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread Andrew Maben

On May 4, 2008, at 5:46 PM, Viable Design wrote:


W3Schools is not related to or sanctioned by the W3C.


and enjoys a certain notoriety for sometimes offering less-than- 
perfect advice. though when I'm in a hurry I still find it a useful  
resource as an aide memoire...


Andrew

http://www.andrewmaben.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

In a well designed user interface, the user should not need  
instructions.





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R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-03 Thread Diego La Monica
What about div style=”text-align: center” ?

 

 

Diego La Monica

Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità

mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica

web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it

 

  _  

Da: Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Inviato: sabato 3 maggio 2008 11.15
A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Oggetto: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

 

Hi,

 

I know that the align attribute such as div align=”center” is not allowed
in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible alternatives
are for a dynamic environment such as a forum?

 

For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the images
will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width and use
margin: 5px auto as an example.

 

What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how many
images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. I’ve resorted to
creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=”center” as that is the only way
I can think of.

 

Are these scenarios always doomed to use transitional doctypes and
deprecated code?

 

I’d be interested in your opinions

 

Cheers

Simon


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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-03 Thread Stuart Foulstone
Or use a CSS class to do the same,

div class=”centre” 

and

.centre {
  text-align: center;
}

On Sat, May 3, 2008 10:22 am, Diego La Monica wrote:
 What about div style=”text-align: center” ?





 Diego La Monica

 Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità

 mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica

 web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it



   _

 Da: Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Inviato: sabato 3 maggio 2008 11.15
 A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Oggetto: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?



 Hi,



 I know that the align attribute such as div align=”center” is not
 allowed
 in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible alternatives
 are for a dynamic environment such as a forum?



 For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the
 images
 will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width and
 use
 margin: 5px auto as an example.



 What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how many
 images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. I’ve resorted to
 creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=”center” as that is the only
 way
 I can think of.



 Are these scenarios always doomed to use transitional doctypes and
 deprecated code?



 I’d be interested in your opinions



 Cheers

 Simon


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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-03 Thread Joseph Taylor
FYI - Adding such a named class, especially with the name center or 
center goes against separation of presentation and content.


In a situation where your HTML looks like:

div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
/div

You should change it to something like:

div id=my_section
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
/div


Then your CSS rule could look more like:

#my_section div {
text-align: center;
margin: 5px;
}

One day you'll wish that div didn't have the class name of center, 
especially if there are a bunch of them. Just give an id to the 
container that would hold them all and use your css selectors to isolate 
the elements you wish to style.


In the end, either choice will create the same effect. This one is a 
little more future proof.


Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Stuart Foulstone wrote:

Or use a CSS class to do the same,

div class=”centre” 

and

.centre {
  text-align: center;
}

On Sat, May 3, 2008 10:22 am, Diego La Monica wrote:
  

What about div style=”text-align: center” ?





Diego La Monica

Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità

mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica

web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it



  _

Da: Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Inviato: sabato 3 maggio 2008 11.15
A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Oggetto: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?



Hi,



I know that the align attribute such as div align=”center” is not
allowed
in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible alternatives
are for a dynamic environment such as a forum?



For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the
images
will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width and
use
margin: 5px auto as an example.



What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how many
images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. I’ve resorted to
creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=”center” as that is the only
way
I can think of.



Are these scenarios always doomed to use transitional doctypes and
deprecated code?



I’d be interested in your opinions



Cheers

Simon


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begin:vcard
fn:Joseph Taylor
n:Taylor;Joseph
org:Sites by Joe, LLC
adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Designer / Developer
tel;work:609-335-3076
tel;fax:886-301-8045
tel;home:609-886-9660
tel;cell:609-335-3076
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
url:http://sitesbyjoe.com
version:2.1
end:vcard




RE: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-03 Thread Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
There is the old faithful

p aligncentreImage/p
Which as far as I'm aware is valid in XHTML strict, or the method Stuart
mentioned with the pre-set div tag.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stuart Foulstone
Sent: 03 May 2008 10:37
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

Or use a CSS class to do the same,

div class=”centre” 

and

.centre {
  text-align: center;
}

On Sat, May 3, 2008 10:22 am, Diego La Monica wrote:
 What about div style=”text-align: center” ?





 Diego La Monica

 Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità

 mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica

 web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it



   _

 Da: Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Inviato: sabato 3 maggio 2008 11.15
 A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Oggetto: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?



 Hi,



 I know that the align attribute such as div align=”center” is not
 allowed
 in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible alternatives
 are for a dynamic environment such as a forum?



 For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the
 images
 will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width and
 use
 margin: 5px auto as an example.



 What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how many
 images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. I’ve resorted to
 creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=”center” as that is the only
 way
 I can think of.



 Are these scenarios always doomed to use transitional doctypes and
 deprecated code?



 I’d be interested in your opinions



 Cheers

 Simon


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-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1410 - Release Date: 01/05/2008
17:30




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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-03 Thread Svip
Speaking of centre.  W3C ought to implement British English as well. :(

But yeah, the align attribute should be avoided at all cost.  If you
really want to align something in the centre, use;

margin: 0 auto;

/Svip

2008/5/3 Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 There is the old faithful

  p aligncentreImage/p
  Which as far as I'm aware is valid in XHTML strict, or the method Stuart
  mentioned with the pre-set div tag.




  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
  Behalf Of Stuart Foulstone
  Sent: 03 May 2008 10:37
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
  Subject: Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

  Or use a CSS class to do the same,

  div class=centre 

  and

  .centre {
   text-align: center;
  }

  On Sat, May 3, 2008 10:22 am, Diego La Monica wrote:
   What about div style=text-align: center ?
  
  
  
  
  
   Diego La Monica
  
   Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità
  
   mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica
  
   web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it
  
  
  
 _
  
   Da: Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Inviato: sabato 3 maggio 2008 11.15
   A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
   Oggetto: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?
  
  
  
   Hi,
  
  
  
   I know that the align attribute such as div align=center is not
   allowed
   in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible alternatives
   are for a dynamic environment such as a forum?
  
  
  
   For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the
   images
   will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width and
   use
   margin: 5px auto as an example.
  
  
  
   What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how many
   images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. I've resorted to
   creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=center as that is the only
   way
   I can think of.
  
  
  
   Are these scenarios always doomed to use transitional doctypes and
   deprecated code?
  
  
  
   I'd be interested in your opinions
  
  
  
   Cheers
  
   Simon
  
  
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  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG.
  Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1410 - Release Date: 01/05/2008
  17:30






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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-03 Thread David Dorward

On 3 May 2008, at 20:30, Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd wrote:


There is the old faithful

p aligncentreImage/p
Which as far as I'm aware is valid in XHTML strict


It isn't.

http://dorward.me.uk/www/centre/ explains how to centre various things  
with CSS. Images are inline, so text-align on the parent element works.


--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/




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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-03 Thread Michael Horowitz
Can you explain to me a little bit more of the  theory of why you would 
want to use and id vs a class called center is this type of situation.


Trying to understand more how this becomes an issue of separating 
presentation and content.


Thanks

Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



Joseph Taylor wrote:
FYI - Adding such a named class, especially with the name center or 
center goes against separation of presentation and content.


In a situation where your HTML looks like:

div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
/div

You should change it to something like:

div id=my_section
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
/div


Then your CSS rule could look more like:

#my_section div {
text-align: center;
margin: 5px;
}

One day you'll wish that div didn't have the class name of center, 
especially if there are a bunch of them. Just give an id to the 
container that would hold them all and use your css selectors to 
isolate the elements you wish to style.


In the end, either choice will create the same effect. This one is a 
little more future proof.


Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Stuart Foulstone wrote:

Or use a CSS class to do the same,

div class=”centre” 

and

.centre {
  text-align: center;
}

On Sat, May 3, 2008 10:22 am, Diego La Monica wrote:
 

What about div style=”text-align: center” ?





Diego La Monica

Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità

mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica

web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it



  _

Da: Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Inviato: sabato 3 maggio 2008 11.15
A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Oggetto: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?



Hi,



I know that the align attribute such as div align=”center” is not
allowed
in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible 
alternatives

are for a dynamic environment such as a forum?



For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the
images
will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width and
use
margin: 5px auto as an example.



What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how many
images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. I’ve resorted to
creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=”center” as that is the 
only

way
I can think of.



Are these scenarios always doomed to use transitional doctypes and
deprecated code?



I’d be interested in your opinions



Cheers

Simon


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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-03 Thread IceKat
How is using a name which is descriptive and easy to remember and 
understand (like for those coming in after you've written the code) 
going against that separation? It's not actually putting the styling in 
the html and if anything it saves coding. If you have a class of center 
then you can define it in your stylesheet as

.center{
   text-align: center
}
and anything has that attribute, including divs, headings, paragraphs 
etc. Imagine creating and writing a class for everything like that which 
needs it! You'd wind up with 50 extra lines of code and a bigger file 
and therefore longer download time.


Plus if it's a class then you don't have to worry about it being used 
more than once on a page and you know exactly which name to use when you 
need that attribute as will anyone else who comes across it later.


IceKat


Joseph Taylor wrote:
FYI - Adding such a named class, especially with the name center or 
center goes against separation of presentation and content.


In a situation where your HTML looks like:

div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
/div

You should change it to something like:

div id=my_section
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
/div


Then your CSS rule could look more like:

#my_section div {
text-align: center;
margin: 5px;
}

One day you'll wish that div didn't have the class name of center, 
especially if there are a bunch of them. Just give an id to the 
container that would hold them all and use your css selectors to 
isolate the elements you wish to style.


In the end, either choice will create the same effect. This one is a 
little more future proof.


Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Stuart Foulstone wrote:

Or use a CSS class to do the same,

div class=”centre” 

and

.centre {
  text-align: center;
}

On Sat, May 3, 2008 10:22 am, Diego La Monica wrote:
 

What about div style=”text-align: center” ?





Diego La Monica

Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità

mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica

web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it



  _

Da: Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Inviato: sabato 3 maggio 2008 11.15
A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Oggetto: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?



Hi,



I know that the align attribute such as div align=”center” is not
allowed
in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible 
alternatives

are for a dynamic environment such as a forum?



For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the
images
will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width and
use
margin: 5px auto as an example.



What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how many
images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. I’ve resorted to
creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=”center” as that is the 
only

way
I can think of.



Are these scenarios always doomed to use transitional doctypes and
deprecated code?



I’d be interested in your opinions



Cheers

Simon


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