Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
Nick Gleitzman wrote: In general, you should recommend that they examine the code of well written, semantically correct pages. Sure, but first you have to teach them to recognise such things... Learning what the tags are is easy, especially if you have a chart at hand. Learning how to properly use said tags is somewhat trickier (though not much). Also, an important teaching technique is to use examples (good and bad). ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
Since the questioner specifically asked for online resources I held off a response. But what the heck! I bought O'Reilly's HTML XHTML: The Definitive Guide and love it. I go back to it any time I have a question, and can read it anywhere, not just in front of my monitor. And in their introduction, the authors say they wrote it for beginners as well as advanced users. Works for me. Best regards, Marilyn Langfeld Langfeldesigns http://www.langfeldesigns.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1.301.598.3300 business phone +1.301.598.0532 fax +1.202.390.8847 mobile On Aug 31, 2005, at 11:26 AM, Mordechai Peller wrote: Nick Gleitzman wrote: In general, you should recommend that they examine the code of well written, semantically correct pages. Sure, but first you have to teach them to recognise such things... Learning what the tags are is easy, especially if you have a chart at hand. Learning how to properly use said tags is somewhat trickier (though not much). Also, an important teaching technique is to use examples (good and bad). ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
Marilyn Langfeld wrote: Since the questioner specifically asked for online resources I held off a response. But what the heck! I bought O'Reilly's HTML XHTML: The Definitive Guide and love it. Technically speaking, it is available online, just not (legally) for free. AFAIK, all of O'Reilly's books are available through Safari. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
On August 28, 2005 10:11 PM John Horner wrote: Just to note that we've got fourteen posts and only three recommendations of online resources... While not strictly for beginners, when I was starting out I found reading more advanced articles at http://www.alistapart.com helped me improve my understanding of more complex concepts. As an aside, A List Apart now sports a classy new design. --- Jonathan Bloy Web Services Librarian Edgewood College Madison, Wisconsin http://library.edgewood.edu ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
John Horner wrote: Just to note that we've got fourteen posts and only three recommendations of online resources... I'm not sure if a downloadable PDF qualifies as an online resource, but Jeffrey Veen has the proof of his Art and science of web design available for download. The book is five years old, but is still a useful reference for standards based web building, and I found it an enjoyable read. http://www.veen.com/jeff/archives/000747.html -- Peter Williams ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm confident in teaching them the *absolute* basics, but if the people in the class want to go on to be coders, which online resources would you recommend? http://htmldog.com is a good site. In general, you should recommend that they examine the code of well written, semantically correct pages. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
I try to keep my list updated here at my MSN Group. I have lists for CSS and HTML and other stuff. You're welcome to browse the lists and even join if you like... http://groups.msn.com/HTMLWebDesignDreamers/htmlxhtmltutorials.msnw Eileen Russell http://www.bytedreams.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 7:14 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners I'll shortly be teaching a class in HTML basics. I'm confident in teaching them the *absolute* basics, but if the people in the class want to go on to be coders, which online resources would you recommend? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:;bytedreams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) FN:bytedreams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] REV:20050718T045116Z END:VCARD
Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
Mordechai Peller wrote: In general, you should recommend that they examine the code of well written, semantically correct pages. Sure, but first you have to teach them to recognise such things... N ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
Hi, http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/ http://validator.w3.org/ I'm all for teaching students how to look up the answer, but in this case I also recommend they read http://www.alistapart.com/articles/readspec/ first so they have a better chance of understanding the answers :) I've never found a standards-compliant html for beginners resource that I'm 100% happy with, although W3Schools isn't too bad. I also direct people to A List Apart, as has already been suggested; although some people find it a bit daunting depending on the issue they read first :) As a student improves they can probably get something out of the links at http://zeldman.com/externals/#cssmarkup as well. cheers, Ben -- --- http://www.200ok.com.au/--- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson
RE: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
I think this is pretty good and easy to follow: http://www.w3schools.com/ Also I know Westciv have just begun their XHTML Free online tutorial, http://www.westciv.com/courses/free/index.html Lisa -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 29 August 2005 10:14 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners I'll shortly be teaching a class in HTML basics. I'm confident in teaching them the *absolute* basics, but if the people in the class want to go on to be coders, which online resources would you recommend? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
Herrod, Lisa wrote: I think this is pretty good and easy to follow: http://www.w3schools.com/ Also I know Westciv have just begun their XHTML Free online tutorial, http://www.westciv.com/courses/free/index.html don't forget html writer's guild. http://www.hwg.org/ dwain -- dwain alford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alforddesigngroup.com The Savior replied; There is no such thing as sin;... 'The Gospel of Mary of Magdala' ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
make sure they never use the term tag incorrectly :-) Not quite sure what you mean by that! Do you mean how people always refer to Alt tags? Or something else? Have You Validated Your Code? John Horner(+612 / 02) 8333 3488 Developer, ABC Kids Onlinehttp://www.abc.net.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
John make sure they never use the term tag incorrectly :-) Not quite sure what you mean by that! Do you mean how people always refer to Alt tags? Or something else? yeah, they do that And they refer to tags when they mean elements. Now, it might seem pedantic, but we are dealing with computers, so precision is important. an example of when it makes a significant difference is illustrated by the following Which of these is correct the caption element comes directly after the table tag the caption element comes directly after the table element john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher Web Essentials web development conference http://we05.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
they refer to tags when they mean elements. Ah, I see. Good point. I will remember to make that distinction! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
From: Bert Doorn Always refer to elements and attributes to avoid confusion. Elements have attributes, they don't have tags and are not tags. I always understood it as below: p/pParagraph element p Opening tag of the Paragraph element /p Closing tag of the Paragraph element -- Peter Williams ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
Hi Dwain, You wrote: some people refer to p as a p tag, but it is the p element. Hmm. I agree that when someone refers to an alt tag it is wrong since alt is an attribute of the img tag. I am not sure what you mean in your distinction between the p tag and element implying that only element is proper. Since someone might wish to refer to the tag as written in the page coding or to refer to the paragraph element itself both possibilities seem open. IMO a lack of precision is likely to result from allowing only one referential mode. Regards, Gene Falck [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
Gene, Since someone might wish to refer to the tag as written in the page coding or to refer to the paragraph element itself both possibilities seem open. IMO a lack of precision is likely to result from allowing only one referential mode. I agree p is a tag (start tag) /p is a tag (end tag) p/p is an element Also, the distinction is between the syntax of HTML (tags) and the structural aspects of the document (elements) This distinction, though is some senses subtle, is important to understand, and should be introduced as early as possible when teaching HTML (IMHO) john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher Web Essentials web development conference http://we05.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
Gene Falck wrote: Hi Dwain, You wrote: some people refer to p as a p tag, but it is the p element. Since someone might wish to refer to the tag as written in the page coding or to refer to the paragraph element itself both possibilities seem open. IMO a lack of precision is likely to result from allowing only one referential mode. i see what you mean, then it is the usage of the term rather than naming the element? tag? or the tag is the p, /p and the element is the pcontent/p? dwain -- dwain alford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alforddesigngroup.com The Savior replied; There is no such thing as sin;... 'The Gospel of Mary of Magdala' ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
Just to note that we've got fourteen posts and only three recommendations of online resources... Have You Validated Your Code? John Horner(+612 / 02) 8333 3488 Developer, ABC Kids Onlinehttp://www.abc.net.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
John, you are probably lucky you got one :-) Just to note that we've got fourteen posts and only three recommendations of online resources... there are loads of me too sites, I guess the one I'd really recommend is http://www.htmlhelp.com/ Like many of he best sites, an oldie but a real goodie. It has spawned many imitators. j John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher Web Essentials web development conference http://we05.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
John Allsopp wrote: John, you are probably lucky you got one :-) Just to note that we've got fourteen posts and only three recommendations of online resources... there are loads of me too sites, I guess the one I'd really recommend is http://www.htmlhelp.com/ Like many of he best sites, an oldie but a real goodie. It has spawned many imitators. ok, here's another one. ascii codes: http://www.ascii.cl/htmlcodes.htm dwain -- dwain alford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alforddesigngroup.com The Savior replied; There is no such thing as sin;... 'The Gospel of Mary of Magdala' ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners
John, If they want to be coders, then send them straight to the source, and show them how to find the specs: http://www.w3.org/ Particularly: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/ and: http://validator.w3.org/ Geoff. -Original Message- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 29 August 2005 10:14 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners I'll shortly be teaching a class in HTML basics. I'm confident in teaching them the *absolute* basics, but if the people in the class want to go on to be coders, which online resources would you recommend? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
