Re: [WSG] Order of Tags within head (XHTML)
On 15 December 2010 13:31, Michal Miksik mmik...@gmail.com wrote: I was advised by an SEO company that : The Title tag should be the first tag in the HEAD area of the web pages, otherwise search engines may overlook it which will significantly damage the rankings. What is the best practice/order for placing tags withing the head section? Any feedback very appreciated. One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that if you set your IE rendering mode with an x-ua-compatible meta tag, it needs to be within the first 512bytes of the document. In practice that just means do it as the second thing inside head, after your document encoding (which needs to be before title for security purposes http://code.google.com/p/doctype/wiki/ArticleUtf7). cheers, Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Order of Tags within head (XHTML)
Could you expand on this please Mike? Thanks, Bob - Original Message - From: Foskett, Mike Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 9:53 AM Subject: RE: [WSG] Order of Tags within head (XHTML) [snip] 4. Page title with H1 text first and if necessary other info in reverse breadcrumb order for accessibility and SEO. [snip] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Order of Tags within head (XHTML)
4. Page title with H1 text first and if necessary other info in reverse breadcrumb order for accessibility and SEO. To my understanding: The H1 and page title are considered the most significant objects on any web page as far as SEO and screen reader accessibility. For SEO both should contain the same keywords. Google ranks these highest. For accessibility both should describe the uniqueness of the page content. The most page-unique information should be placed first, that is it should be front loaded. To a screen reader user if the title starts to read out the company name then next is hit before the unique title text is read out. More irrelevant information such as category / section or company / site name should therefore follow the unique part in a reverse breadcrumb fashion. Does that help? mike foskett http://websemantics.co.uk/ -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of designer Sent: 16 December 2010 11:58 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Order of Tags within head (XHTML) Could you expand on this please Mike? Thanks, Bob - Original Message - From: Foskett, Mike Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 9:53 AM Subject: RE: [WSG] Order of Tags within head (XHTML) [snip] 4. Page title with H1 text first and if necessary other info in reverse breadcrumb order for accessibility and SEO. [snip] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** This is a confidential email. Tesco may monitor and record all emails. The views expressed in this email are those of the sender and not Tesco. Tesco Stores Limited Company Number: 519500 Registered in England Registered Office: Tesco House, Delamare Road, Cheshunt, Hertfordshire EN8 9SL VAT Registration Number: GB 220 4302 31 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Order of Tags within head (XHTML)
Exactly. Search bots are quite smart now a days, and lets be honest, a lot of so-called SEO experts I thought I should just follow up the above comment, by saying that organic SEO is quite ok, such as the correct use of title tags, eg not filling them with just keywords and making sure they describe what page your on, such as yourwebsitename-Homepage. But I don't think the order of the head tags really comes into it. The order of other tags / sections of the HTML / XHTML might though, as a well structured page will be both readable by search engine bots as well as other devices, such as screen. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Order of Tags within head (XHTML)
Here's an example of what I gather to be best practice. !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd; html lang=en-gb xml:lang=en-gb xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; head meta http-equiv=content-type content=text/html; charset=utf-8 / titleh1 text - site section - site name/title script type=text/javascript/*![CDATA[*/document.documentElement.className=hasJS/*]]*//script meta name=Description content=Description text which Google shows under search result. / meta http-equiv=imagetoolbar content=no / style type=text/css media=screen @import blah.css; ... /style link href=blah-blah.css rel=stylesheet type=text/css media=print / script src=more-scripts.js type=text/javascript/script /head The important things as I understand: 1. Doctype appears as the very first thing, not even a space before it, otherwise IEv6 may go into quirks mode. 2. lang stated in html element 3. first head item should be char encoding so document can be interpreted as quickly as possible. 4. Page title with H1 text first and if necessary other info in reverse breadcrumb order for accessibility and SEO. 5. hasJS script - so JS affected styling can be interpreted immediately. 6. General meta tags. The only two of worth are: a. Imagetoolbar - which prevents IE displaying that awful icon set over images. b. Description - The text that Google shows beneath a search result. 7. Stylesheets - (see: http://www.stevesouders.com/blog/2009/04/09/dont-use-import/) a. Use links to external style sheets which must not contain @import. b. If you must use @import use them in the HTML style tag not in external files. 8. The head section must not finish with a self closing element such as link. It may cause copy selection errors and Flash of un-styled content issues I'm very interested to hear other members perspectives. mike foskett http://websemantics.co.uk/ This is a confidential email. Tesco may monitor and record all emails. The views expressed in this email are those of the sender and not Tesco. Tesco Stores Limited Company Number: 519500 Registered in England Registered Office: Tesco House, Delamare Road, Cheshunt, Hertfordshire EN8 9SL VAT Registration Number: GB 220 4302 31 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Order of Tags within head (XHTML)
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Foskett, Mike mike.fosk...@uk.tesco.com wrote: 8. The head section must not finish with a self closing element such as link. It may cause copy selection errors and Flash of un-styled content issues This is news to me. Does anyone have a citation or test case for this? -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Order of Tags within head (XHTML)
Hi Benjamin, Referencing my own work seems pretty pointless but hey: http://www.websemantics.co.uk/resources/useful_css_snippets/ Headings: IE refuses to copy or highlight content text Un-styled content flashing up in IE. After reading, perhaps I could of worded the post a little better. mike foskett http://websemantics.co.uk/ -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis Sent: 15 December 2010 10:27 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Order of Tags within head (XHTML) On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Foskett, Mike mike.fosk...@uk.tesco.com wrote: 8. The head section must not finish with a self closing element such as link. It may cause copy selection errors and Flash of un-styled content issues This is news to me. Does anyone have a citation or test case for this? -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** This is a confidential email. Tesco may monitor and record all emails. The views expressed in this email are those of the sender and not Tesco. Tesco Stores Limited Company Number: 519500 Registered in England Registered Office: Tesco House, Delamare Road, Cheshunt, Hertfordshire EN8 9SL VAT Registration Number: GB 220 4302 31 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Order of Tags within head (XHTML)
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Foskett, Mike mike.fosk...@uk.tesco.com wrote: Referencing my own work seems pretty pointless but hey: http://www.websemantics.co.uk/resources/useful_css_snippets/ Not at all - thanks for the references. :) Headings: IE refuses to copy or highlight content text Right, in that case I have heard of this behavior for base: http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200608/base_elements_cause_text_selection_problems_in_ie/ base parsing in IE6 is very idiosyncratic: http://weblogs.asp.net/justin_rogers/pages/423843.aspx I think you'll find this problem doesn't apply to other self-closing elements, such as link. Un-styled content flashing up in IE. After reading, perhaps I could of worded the post a little better. I guess - isn't the second topic an argument for ending with a link as much as not? -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Order of Tags within head (XHTML)
I seem to remember that I tested the issue with other self closing objects, possibly including link. Some act in the same manner. Also by ending the head section with an object that isn't self-closing (except style to avoid @import) prevents FOUC. Therefore perhaps it would be better stated as: Avoid ending a head section with a style block or a self-closing object. mike foskett http://websemantics.co.uk/ -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis Sent: 15 December 2010 11:47 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Order of Tags within head (XHTML) On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Foskett, Mike mike.fosk...@uk.tesco.com wrote: Referencing my own work seems pretty pointless but hey: http://www.websemantics.co.uk/resources/useful_css_snippets/ Not at all - thanks for the references. :) Headings: IE refuses to copy or highlight content text Right, in that case I have heard of this behavior for base: http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200608/base_elements_cause_text_selection_problems_in_ie/ base parsing in IE6 is very idiosyncratic: http://weblogs.asp.net/justin_rogers/pages/423843.aspx I think you'll find this problem doesn't apply to other self-closing elements, such as link. Un-styled content flashing up in IE. After reading, perhaps I could of worded the post a little better. I guess - isn't the second topic an argument for ending with a link as much as not? -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** This is a confidential email. Tesco may monitor and record all emails. The views expressed in this email are those of the sender and not Tesco. Tesco Stores Limited Company Number: 519500 Registered in England Registered Office: Tesco House, Delamare Road, Cheshunt, Hertfordshire EN8 9SL VAT Registration Number: GB 220 4302 31 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Order of Tags within head (XHTML)
On 15.12.2010 03:31, Michal Miksik wrote: I was advised by an SEO company that : The Title tag should be the first tag in the HEAD area of the web pages, otherwise search engines may overlook it which will significantly damage the rankings. Someone must be seriously underestimating search engines, or have other reasons for saying that. What is the best practice/order for placing tags withing the head section? The following looks pretty alright to me... - meta(s) - title - links - style(s) - script(s) ...and shouldn't cause loss of attention in search engines or browsers. regards Georg *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Order of Tags within head (XHTML)
- Original Message - From: G.Sørtun gunla...@c2i.net To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Order of Tags within head (XHTML) On 15.12.2010 03:31, Michal Miksik wrote: I was advised by an SEO company that : The Title tag should be the first tag in the HEAD area of the web pages, otherwise search engines may overlook it which will significantly damage the rankings. Someone must be seriously underestimating search engines, or have other reasons for saying that. What is the best practice/order for placing tags withing the head section? The following looks pretty alright to me... - meta(s) - title - links - style(s) - script(s) ...and shouldn't cause loss of attention in search engines or browsers. regards Exactly. Search bots are quite smart now a days, and lets be honest, a lot of so-called SEO experts are just snake oil salesman. They will make up a load of crap and charge you $899 per hour for the privaledge of telling you it. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
