RE: [WSG] Semi-newbie: advice needed
I know it's not an online course but believe me its enlightening! XHTML & CSS run by a guy called Patrick Griffiths, his sites for details of the course www.viabit.co.uk and www.htmldog.com very very worthwhile. Regards Becky -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Trusz, Andrew Sent: 24 March 2005 11:48 To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org' Subject: RE: [WSG] Semi-newbie: advice needed -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark B Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 5:41 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Semi-newbie: advice needed Hiya. I'm an experienced HTML & CSS coder who has dabbled a little with the XHTML/CSS way of doing things, but frankly, am a little lost. All the tutorials I've found on the web assume that you are either experienced and trying to do some advanced stuff, or are completely new and don't know CSS. I'm looking for an online tutorial or book that will help me go from the old ways to the new ways - help wean me off tables! :) Can anyone offer suggestions? I'm sure many others on this list have been down this path. Cheers, Mark ** You've had a lot of good suggestions about the mechanics of non-tabular design. You might also want to look at the philosophy of it. There is a "why" to it. Understanding that "why" helps with authoring which in turn addresses accessibility, ease of maintenance, neatness of code, download times ,etc. One place to start is with the w3c discussion of the semantic web: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/ That will give you the citation/link to the original Berners-Lee etal "Scientific American" article. Additional statements by or about the Berners-Lee concept can be found at: http://www.mindswap.org/Science/ http://www.ercim.org/publication/Ercim_News/enw51/berners-lee.html And if you want a simple introduction to RDF and N-Triples have a look at: http://logicerror.com/semanticWeb-webdev.html And for the over-the-top, insulting, aggravating but entertaining rant: http://evpc.biz/personal/soapbox/morons_in_webspace drew ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Semi-newbie: advice needed
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark B Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 5:41 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Semi-newbie: advice needed Hiya. I'm an experienced HTML & CSS coder who has dabbled a little with the XHTML/CSS way of doing things, but frankly, am a little lost. All the tutorials I've found on the web assume that you are either experienced and trying to do some advanced stuff, or are completely new and don't know CSS. I'm looking for an online tutorial or book that will help me go from the old ways to the new ways - help wean me off tables! :) Can anyone offer suggestions? I'm sure many others on this list have been down this path. Cheers, Mark ** You've had a lot of good suggestions about the mechanics of non-tabular design. You might also want to look at the philosophy of it. There is a "why" to it. Understanding that "why" helps with authoring which in turn addresses accessibility, ease of maintenance, neatness of code, download times ,etc. One place to start is with the w3c discussion of the semantic web: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/ That will give you the citation/link to the original Berners-Lee etal "Scientific American" article. Additional statements by or about the Berners-Lee concept can be found at: http://www.mindswap.org/Science/ http://www.ercim.org/publication/Ercim_News/enw51/berners-lee.html And if you want a simple introduction to RDF and N-Triples have a look at: http://logicerror.com/semanticWeb-webdev.html And for the over-the-top, insulting, aggravating but entertaining rant: http://evpc.biz/personal/soapbox/morons_in_webspace drew ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Semi-newbie: advice needed
Mark, A book called The CSS Anthology (101 Essential Tips, Tricks and Hacks) by Rachel Andrew is the best i've found so far. As for online tutorials the CSS positioning one at Brainjar is great - http://www.brainjar.com/css/positioning/default.asp cheers, Grant Mark B wrote: >Hiya. > >I'm an experienced HTML & CSS coder who has dabbled a little with the >XHTML/CSS way of doing things, but frankly, am a little lost. All the >tutorials I've found on the web assume that you are either experienced >and trying to do some advanced stuff, or are completely new and don't >know CSS. I'm looking for an online tutorial or book that will help me >go from the old ways to the new ways - help wean me off tables! :) > >Can anyone offer suggestions? I'm sure many others on this list have >been down this path. > >Cheers, > >Mark >** >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help >** > > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain privileged information or confidential information or both. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it and notify the sender. ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semi-newbie: advice needed
Mark, Two other suggestions: Eric Meyer on CSS (follow-along projects from The Man) and... either Ebay or Froogle (great source for discounts on all these expensive books). Wendy Mark B wrote: Hiya. I'm an experienced HTML & CSS coder who has dabbled a little with the XHTML/CSS way of doing things, but frankly, am a little lost. All the tutorials I've found on the web assume that you are either experienced and trying to do some advanced stuff, or are completely new and don't know CSS. I'm looking for an online tutorial or book that will help me go from the old ways to the new ways - help wean me off tables! :) Can anyone offer suggestions? I'm sure many others on this list have been down this path. Cheers, Mark ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semi-newbie: advice needed
Thanks for help/suggestions all. I did some research on the various suggestions, I've ordered "Web Standards Solutions" by Dan Cederholm, sounds like exactly what I want. I'll have a play around in a few of the suggested sites as well. Cheers, Mark ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semi-newbie: advice needed
Hi Mark, http://www.simplebits.com/notebook/2004/06/21/bonanza.html Above is the "Web Standards Link Bonanza" from SimpleBits. This is an enormous list and should give you tons of reading. Alot of it might not apply directly, but is a great read anyway. Good Luck, Andrew Mark B wrote: Hiya. I'm an experienced HTML & CSS coder who has dabbled a little with the XHTML/CSS way of doing things, but frankly, am a little lost. All the tutorials I've found on the web assume that you are either experienced and trying to do some advanced stuff, or are completely new and don't know CSS. I'm looking for an online tutorial or book that will help me go from the old ways to the new ways - help wean me off tables! :) Can anyone offer suggestions? I'm sure many others on this list have been down this path. Cheers, Mark ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semi-newbie: advice needed
alistapart.com offers some nice tutorials about converting oldschool code into compliant code. Apart from that, I would say use google and look for "standards-compliant web design" or something to that effect... Have fun! - Original Message - From: "Mark B" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 5:41 PM Subject: [WSG] Semi-newbie: advice needed Hiya. I'm an experienced HTML & CSS coder who has dabbled a little with the XHTML/CSS way of doing things, but frankly, am a little lost. All the tutorials I've found on the web assume that you are either experienced and trying to do some advanced stuff, or are completely new and don't know CSS. I'm looking for an online tutorial or book that will help me go from the old ways to the new ways - help wean me off tables! :) Can anyone offer suggestions? I'm sure many others on this list have been down this path. Cheers, Mark ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semi-newbie: advice needed
Hi Mark I'd have to say that the following three books are well worth having in your library: Designing with Web Standards, by Jeffrey Zeldman (http://www.zeldman.com) Web Standards Solutions, by Dan Cederholm (http://www.simplebits.com) and Cascading Style Sheets - the Definitive Guide by Eric A Meyer (http://www.meyerweb.com) These three give you the rationale for the Web Standards approach, the practical implementation and the nitty-gritty of CSS, respectively. Cheers Peter Mark B wrote: Hiya. I'm an experienced HTML & CSS coder who has dabbled a little with the XHTML/CSS way of doing things, but frankly, am a little lost. All the tutorials I've found on the web assume that you are either experienced and trying to do some advanced stuff, or are completely new and don't know CSS. I'm looking for an online tutorial or book that will help me go from the old ways to the new ways - help wean me off tables! :) Can anyone offer suggestions? I'm sure many others on this list have been down this path. Cheers, Mark ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** -- Peter Asquith http://www.wasabicube.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semi-newbie: advice needed
Hi Mark, You can't really go wrong with this book: Designing with webstandards by Jeffrey Zeldman. As for urls, the New York Library style guide is invaluable: http://www.nypl.org/styleguide/ Rgds, Ben Mark B wrote: Hiya. I'm an experienced HTML & CSS coder who has dabbled a little with the XHTML/CSS way of doing things, but frankly, am a little lost. All the tutorials I've found on the web assume that you are either experienced and trying to do some advanced stuff, or are completely new and don't know CSS. I'm looking for an online tutorial or book that will help me go from the old ways to the new ways - help wean me off tables! :) Can anyone offer suggestions? I'm sure many others on this list have been down this path. Cheers, Mark ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semi-newbie: advice needed
Hello Mark, I'm not sure if this will help, but I learnt the basics of creating CSS layouts by studying other CSS files. A good place to start would be to pick a design from www.csszengarden.com, and view the CSS file. Re-create it with a little imagination. -- Johnno Shadbolt Web Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED], www.code215.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
