Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest (Re: [WSG] skip links)

[ピエールランリ・ラヴィン]

David Hucklesby さんは書きました:

ピエールランリ・ラヴィン wrote:


Actually is not enough. Accesskey is a good way about the 
accessibility, but it's not completed.
I didn't check the latest WCAG and the latest version of screen 
readers but:
* Keyboards shortcuts depend from the UA (the specifications didn't 
define it)

* Users may define preferences keys
* Most of the screen readers set the priorities to the website, so if 
you use a key not defined by the user but already defined by the 
browsers (like 'd'), you can private them from native functionalities
* A few screen readers like IBM Home Page Reader set the priorities 
to the user so some accesskeys may be ignored in case of conflicts

* Exotic keys like \ ] ( most unused ) may not work.

So primary:
* Set in the head of html a bunch of primary links as link tag (rel="start" href="http://www.mysite.com"; title="Home Page" />rel="help" ...)
* At least a "skip to content" link on TOP of your page (means top of 
the HTML page, not after iframe or ads or anything, just after the body.
I don't remember the book (maybe Mr Zeldmann), citing 
http://www.jimthatcher.com/ (good example with focus only).
* an additional block of skipping links at the top of the page too, 
like those defined by BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk, great example too 
of skip nav
* Then a block of visible links like help, select a skin typically 
ideal to introduce stuffs like style switcher, etc..

* Use correctly the titles h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6
* Use tabindex. you can play with tags like div - a, setting a 
tabindex and a title attribute

* And of course write the 'help page' about how using your site

Accessibility depends from the country too, but I think in Europe 
most the countries are using the following accesskeys:
Key 0: list of accesskeys , may be defined in the accessibility / 
help page.

Key 1: home page (key not working with IBM Home Page Reader)
Key 2: news
Key 3: sitemap
Key 4: form, for example search form
Key 5: FAQ, glossary, etc...
Key 6: help about using the website
Key 7: email contact
Key 8: copyrights, license, ...
Key 9: guestbook, feedback

So accesskeys are great but only one of the way to enhance the 
accessibility.
Great french article: 
http://openweb.eu.org/articles/accesskey_essai_non_transforme.


One of the famous trick in css then is to use .off-left { 
position:absolute; left:-9px; } for example instead of 
display:none, to set content outside of the screens but keep it 
readable by screen readers.



~~~

A very informative post. Thank you.

FWIW If a "skip to main content" is visible, I tend to use it to bring
the main article to the top of the window. Please make the link
available to sighted users as well...

Cordially,
David
--



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Thanks :-)
It makes sense to set it visible too but it's not easy.
Even now, unfortunately, most of the websites doing this are people who 
care about great accessibility and/or usability.
You will deal with any people (clients - marketing - design) saying for 
example:
"You don't understand me, the users of my website are teenagers who want 
to subscribe for a plan and get a mobile",
Famous fact that 15-25 years old people don't really understand 
interface, are all in good health, and 100% capabilities. (ironical)
What seems "Killing the user experience" for advanced users may not be 
for the average people.
So I meant in the worst case, better to have hidden skip links that 
nothing ;-) (From my point of view)


For your personal use, if you don't care about the design, there are 
some fancy plugins like tidy read
http://www.tidyread.com/ which extracts the main article as text so you 
won't need or complain about skip links ;-)

Available for Firefox and IE.

What is funny about link in the html head ( 
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/links.html#h-12.3), i never found 
how to use it natively with browsers. Can anyone provide informations 
about that please ?


Regards


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Re: [WSG] skip links

[David Dorward]

On 29 Oct 2009, at 11:48, designer wrote:
Screen magnification users also benefit from "skip" links. Making  
these links visible help more than just screen reader and keyboard  
users.




Skip to Main Content


Presumably, the accesskey caters for those folk also?



Assuming they know the link is there. If it is styled to as to be  
invisible or off-screen, then it hurts more than it helps.



--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk



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Re: [WSG] skip links

[James O'Neill]

I'm a bit late but here are some good 'skip link' links:

 http://joeclark.org/book/sashay/serialization/Chapter08.html
 http://www.webaim.org/techniques/skipnav/
 http://juicystudio.com/article/skip-links.php


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Re: [WSG] skip links

[designer]

Hi Julie
- Original Message - 
From: Julie Romanowski

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 10:51 AM
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links


Screen magnification users also benefit from "skip" links. Making these 
links visible help more than just screen reader and keyboard users.


- - - - - - - -

What I've settled for is as follows:



Skip to Main Content


Presumably, the accesskey caters for those folk also?

??

Bob 






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RE: [WSG] skip links

[Julie Romanowski]

Screen magnification users also benefit from "skip" links. Making these
links visible help more than just screen reader and keyboard users.

 

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Raul Ferrer
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 8:47 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links

 

I've been always under the impression that sighted users surfing with a
keyboard, have it easier to realize if there's a Skip Navigation link
(since nothing gets on focus) and it's easier for them to navigate with
tab key, so it's not such a burden.

I mean, suffering the navigation on a screen reader on every page is
painful, but a sighted user can work himself better on the page with a
keyboard.

 

That's why I always put a div with the "skip to" links on top of the
document and then move them to the left off the site. Keyboards find
them first (though they don't show) and screen readers see them.

 

It's better not to make Skip to navigation visible, since most users
won't understand what's that for, and on many cases, they won't even
realize what's happening, since the page won't change if you click on
it.

 

Anyway, my 2c ;)

 

Cheers

 

Raul

 

 

www.raulferrer.com <http://www.raulferrer.com/> 

webdesign & development

 

 



De: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] En
nombre de Steve Green
Enviado el: jueves, 29 de octubre de 2009 2:17
Para: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Asunto: RE: [WSG] skip links

 

Understood. I was addressing the common misconception that skip links
are only for screen reader users. Bob may have had a reason for phrasing
the question the way he did, but it probably should have been phrased
differently.

 



From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Mark Huppert
Sent: 29 October 2009 00:19
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links

Thanks for that Steve - but I was trying answer the question:

 

"Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure
which is invisible to sighted readers "

 

regards

Mark

 



From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 11:01 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links

A 1-pixel image works for screen reader users but it is no use for
sighted people who use keyboard navigation.

 



From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Mark Huppert
Sent: 28 October 2009 23:37
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links

spot the typo 

 

regards

Mark

 

 



From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Mark Huppert
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 10:34 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links

Steve

 

One way to do it is make a transparent gif of 1px x 1px. Then

embed that in your link with no text. Have an ALT or a TITLE with

'skip navigation'

 



 

regards

Mark


Mark Huppert
Library Systems and Web Coordinator
Division of Information
R.G. Menzies Building (#2)
The Australian National University
ACTON ACT 0200

T: +61 02 6125 2752
F: +61 02 6125 4063
W: http://anulib.anu.edu.au/about/

CRICOS Provider #00120C


 

 



From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 12:52 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links

I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are
accessible to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so
they are accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation.



From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of designer
Sent: 28 October 2009 13:37
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] skip links

Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure
which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen
readers?  It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but
(of course) it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by
real world web designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach.

 

I'd be really grateful . . .

 

Thanks,

 

Bob




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RE: [WSG] skip links

[Raul Ferrer]

I've been always under the impression that sighted users surfing with a
keyboard, have it easier to realize if there's a Skip Navigation link (since
nothing gets on focus) and it's easier for them to navigate with tab key, so
it's not such a burden.

I mean, suffering the navigation on a screen reader on every page is
painful, but a sighted user can work himself better on the page with a
keyboard.

 

That's why I always put a div with the "skip to" links on top of the
document and then move them to the left off the site. Keyboards find them
first (though they don't show) and screen readers see them.

 

It's better not to make Skip to navigation visible, since most users won't
understand what's that for, and on many cases, they won't even realize
what's happening, since the page won't change if you click on it.

 

Anyway, my 2c ;)

 

Cheers

 

Raul

 

 

www.raulferrer.com <http://www.raulferrer.com/> 

webdesign & development

 

 

  _  

De: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] En
nombre de Steve Green
Enviado el: jueves, 29 de octubre de 2009 2:17
Para: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Asunto: RE: [WSG] skip links

 

Understood. I was addressing the common misconception that skip links are
only for screen reader users. Bob may have had a reason for phrasing the
question the way he did, but it probably should have been phrased
differently.

 

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Huppert
Sent: 29 October 2009 00:19
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links

Thanks for that Steve - but I was trying answer the question:

 

"Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure
which is invisible to sighted readers "

 

regards

Mark

 

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 11:01 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links

A 1-pixel image works for screen reader users but it is no use for sighted
people who use keyboard navigation.

 

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Huppert
Sent: 28 October 2009 23:37
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links

spot the typo 

 

regards

Mark

 

 

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Huppert
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 10:34 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links

Steve

 

One way to do it is make a transparent gif of 1px x 1px. Then

embed that in your link with no text. Have an ALT or a TITLE with

'skip navigation'

 



 

regards

Mark


Mark Huppert
Library Systems and Web Coordinator
Division of Information
R.G. Menzies Building (#2)
The Australian National University
ACTON ACT 0200

T: +61 02 6125 2752
F: +61 02 6125 4063
W: http://anulib.anu.edu.au/about/

CRICOS Provider #00120C


 

 

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 12:52 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links

I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are accessible
to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so they are
accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation.

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of designer
Sent: 28 October 2009 13:37
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] skip links

Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure
which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen readers?
It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but (of course)
it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by real world web
designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach.

 

I'd be really grateful . . .

 

Thanks,

 

Bob




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RE: [WSG] skip links

[Steve Green]

Understood. I was addressing the common misconception that skip links are
only for screen reader users. Bob may have had a reason for phrasing the
question the way he did, but it probably should have been phrased
differently.

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Huppert
Sent: 29 October 2009 00:19
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links


Thanks for that Steve - but I was trying answer the question:
 
"Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure
which is invisible to sighted readers "
 

regards

Mark




  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 11:01 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links


A 1-pixel image works for screen reader users but it is no use for sighted
people who use keyboard navigation.

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Huppert
Sent: 28 October 2009 23:37
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links


spot the typo 
 

regards

Mark



 

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Huppert
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 10:34 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links


Steve
 
One way to do it is make a transparent gif of 1px x 1px. Then
embed that in your link with no text. Have an ALT or a TITLE with
'skip navigation'
 

 
regards

Mark


Mark Huppert
Library Systems and Web Coordinator
Division of Information
R.G. Menzies Building (#2)
The Australian National University
ACTON ACT 0200

T: +61 02 6125 2752
F: +61 02 6125 4063
W: http://anulib.anu.edu.au/about/

CRICOS Provider #00120C


 

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 12:52 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links


I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are accessible
to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so they are
accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation.

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of designer
Sent: 28 October 2009 13:37
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] skip links


Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure
which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen readers?
It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but (of course)
it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by real world web
designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach.
 
I'd be really grateful . . .
 
Thanks,
 
Bob



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Re: [WSG] skip links

[Joseph Taylor]

Mark,

I just add something like this to things that are for mobile/text-only:

.noscreen { text-index: -3000px; 
</tt><tt>}

Skip Link

It's not perfect (keyboard users with a full blown browser will have to 
tab through them but won't see the links) but combining that concept 
with a little user agent sniffing on the server side of things improve 
your odds of satisfying the needs of everyone.


Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/"Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design"/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com


On 10/28/09 8:19 PM, Mark Huppert wrote:

Thanks for that Steve - but I was trying answer the question:
"Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' 
procedure which is invisible to sighted readers "


regards

Mark



*From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org 
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Steve Green

*Sent:* Thursday, 29 October 2009 11:01 AM
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Subject:* RE: [WSG] skip links

A 1-pixel image works for screen reader users but it is no use for 
sighted people who use keyboard navigation.



*From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org 
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Mark Huppert

*Sent:* 28 October 2009 23:37
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Subject:* RE: [WSG] skip links

spot the typo 

regards

Mark



*From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org 
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Mark Huppert

*Sent:* Thursday, 29 October 2009 10:34 AM
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Subject:* RE: [WSG] skip links

Steve
One way to do it is make a transparent gif of 1px x 1px. Then
embed that in your link with no text. Have an ALT or a TITLE with
'skip navigation'
src="/screens/dot/gif"  />

regards

Mark


Mark Huppert
Library Systems and Web Coordinator
Division of Information
R.G. Menzies Building (#2)
The Australian National University
ACTON ACT 0200

T: +61 02 6125 2752
F: +61 02 6125 4063
W: http://anulib.anu.edu.au/about/

CRICOS Provider #00120C



*From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org 
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Steve Green

*Sent:* Thursday, 29 October 2009 12:52 AM
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Subject:* RE: [WSG] skip links

I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are 
accessible to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so 
they are accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation.


*From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org 
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *designer

*Sent:* 28 October 2009 13:37
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Subject:* [WSG] skip links

Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' 
procedure which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by 
screen readers?  It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read 
about it, but (of course) it is impossible to find out which way is 
recommended by real world web designers who have actually used a 
bullet-proof approach.

I'd be really grateful . . .
Thanks,
Bob



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RE: [WSG] skip links

[Mark Huppert]

Thanks for that Steve - but I was trying answer the question:
 
"Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure
which is invisible to sighted readers "
 

regards

Mark




  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 11:01 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links


A 1-pixel image works for screen reader users but it is no use for
sighted people who use keyboard navigation.

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Mark Huppert
Sent: 28 October 2009 23:37
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links


spot the typo 
 

regards

Mark



 

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Mark Huppert
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 10:34 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links


Steve
 
One way to do it is make a transparent gif of 1px x 1px. Then
embed that in your link with no text. Have an ALT or a TITLE with
'skip navigation'
 

 
regards

Mark


Mark Huppert
Library Systems and Web Coordinator
Division of Information
R.G. Menzies Building (#2)
The Australian National University
ACTON ACT 0200

T: +61 02 6125 2752
F: +61 02 6125 4063
W: http://anulib.anu.edu.au/about/

CRICOS Provider #00120C


 

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 12:52 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links


I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are
accessible to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so
they are accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation.

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of designer
Sent: 28 October 2009 13:37
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] skip links


Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure
which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen
readers?  It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but
(of course) it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by
real world web designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach.
 
I'd be really grateful . . .
 
Thanks,
 
Bob



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RE: [WSG] skip links

[Steve Green]

A 1-pixel image works for screen reader users but it is no use for sighted
people who use keyboard navigation.

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Huppert
Sent: 28 October 2009 23:37
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links


spot the typo 
 

regards

Mark



 

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Huppert
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 10:34 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links


Steve
 
One way to do it is make a transparent gif of 1px x 1px. Then
embed that in your link with no text. Have an ALT or a TITLE with
'skip navigation'
 

 
regards

Mark


Mark Huppert
Library Systems and Web Coordinator
Division of Information
R.G. Menzies Building (#2)
The Australian National University
ACTON ACT 0200

T: +61 02 6125 2752
F: +61 02 6125 4063
W: http://anulib.anu.edu.au/about/

CRICOS Provider #00120C


 

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 12:52 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links


I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are accessible
to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so they are
accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation.

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of designer
Sent: 28 October 2009 13:37
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] skip links


Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure
which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen readers?
It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but (of course)
it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by real world web
designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach.
 
I'd be really grateful . . .
 
Thanks,
 
Bob



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RE: [WSG] skip links

[Mark Huppert]

spot the typo 
 

regards

Mark



 

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Mark Huppert
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 10:34 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links


Steve
 
One way to do it is make a transparent gif of 1px x 1px. Then
embed that in your link with no text. Have an ALT or a TITLE with
'skip navigation'
 

 
regards

Mark


Mark Huppert
Library Systems and Web Coordinator
Division of Information
R.G. Menzies Building (#2)
The Australian National University
ACTON ACT 0200

T: +61 02 6125 2752
F: +61 02 6125 4063
W: http://anulib.anu.edu.au/about/

CRICOS Provider #00120C


 

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 12:52 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links


I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are
accessible to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so
they are accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation.

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of designer
Sent: 28 October 2009 13:37
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] skip links


Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure
which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen
readers?  It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but
(of course) it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by
real world web designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach.
 
I'd be really grateful . . .
 
Thanks,
 
Bob



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RE: [WSG] skip links

[Mark Huppert]

Steve
 
One way to do it is make a transparent gif of 1px x 1px. Then
embed that in your link with no text. Have an ALT or a TITLE with
'skip navigation'
 

 
regards

Mark


Mark Huppert
Library Systems and Web Coordinator
Division of Information
R.G. Menzies Building (#2)
The Australian National University
ACTON ACT 0200

T: +61 02 6125 2752
F: +61 02 6125 4063
W: http://anulib.anu.edu.au/about/

CRICOS Provider #00120C


 

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 12:52 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links


I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are
accessible to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so
they are accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation.

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of designer
Sent: 28 October 2009 13:37
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] skip links


Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure
which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen
readers?  It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but
(of course) it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by
real world web designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach.
 
I'd be really grateful . . .
 
Thanks,
 
Bob



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RE: [WSG] skip links

[Steve Green]

I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are accessible
to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so they are
accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation.

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of designer
Sent: 28 October 2009 13:37
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] skip links


Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure
which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen readers?
It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but (of course)
it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by real world web
designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach.
 
I'd be really grateful . . .
 
Thanks,
 
Bob



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Re: [WSG] skip links

[Nancy Johnson]

Might I suggest article from Webaim.org
http://www.webaim.org/techniques/skipnav/
Don't forget about the mobility impaired user as well.

Nancy

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 9:36 AM, designer
 wrote:
> Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure
> which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen readers?
> It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but (of course)
> it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by real world web
> designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach.
>
> I'd be really grateful . . .
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
>
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[WSG] skip links

[designer]

Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure which 
is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen readers?  It seems a 
can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but (of course) it is 
impossible to find out which way is recommended by real world web designers who 
have actually used a bullet-proof approach.

I'd be really grateful . . .

Thanks,

Bob


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Re: [WSG] skip links

[Matthew Pennell]

On 12/14/07, dwain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> i'm using ibm's adesigner.  i'm getting errors about skip links.  how do
> you skip links?  why?


What does the error say?

A 'skip link' is a link that is provided either before or after a large
chunk of content (or at the start or end of a page) that allows the user to
'skip' directly to a particular part of the page. So for example if you had
quite an extensive set of navigation options, you might place a 'skip to
content' (or 'go straight to content', or whatever other wording you think
appropriate) link before it, allowing users to bypass the navigation and
jump down to the main content of the page.

They are particularly useful for keyboard users and screenreader users, who
don't want to have to tab through/listen to the entire page to get to the
part they want.

- Matthew


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Re: [WSG] skip links

[Christian Snodgrass]

You don't skip links, it means you probably don't have a skip link. I've 
never used IBM's program, but that is what I would assume it is 
referring to. A skip link is an accessibility feature used to skip over 
repetitive information like navigation. Here is a good article on them: 
http://www.jimthatcher.com/skipnav.htm


dwain wrote:
i'm using ibm's adesigner.  i'm getting errors about skip links.  how 
do you skip links?  why?

dwain

--
dwain alford
"The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression."  Kandinsky
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--

Christian Snodgrass
Azure Ronin Web Design
http://www.arwebdesign.net/ 
Phone: 859.816.7955



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[WSG] skip links

[dwain]

i'm using ibm's adesigner.  i'm getting errors about skip links.  how do you
skip links?  why?
dwain

-- 
dwain alford
"The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression."  Kandinsky


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RE: [WSG] Skip links and Accessibility Info Links

[Laura Carlson]

Here are a few more skip link references:

http://www.d.umn.edu/goto/navigation#skiplinks

Laura
___
Laura L. Carlson
Information Technology Systems and Services
University of Minnesota Duluth
Duluth, MN  55812-3009
http://www.d.umn.edu/goto/webdesign
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RE: [WSG] Skip links and Accessibility Info Links

[Hill, Tim]

Hi, some reading about skip links by Joe Clark, he specifies you should
make them visible. Although for a commercial site it would be hard to
push this idea,
http://joeclark.org/book/sashay/serialization/Chapter08.html#h4-2020

And if you browse this interview with him on digital web to the heading
labelled Technique.
http://www.digital-web.com/interviews/interview_2003-10.shtml

I have seen some sites with a link to an accessibility page in the
footer bar, like along side the legality link.
But I can't remember where sorry.


Tim Hill
Computer Associates
Graphic Artist
tel: +612 9937 0792
fax: +612 9937 0546
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Susan R. Grossman
Sent: Sunday, 28 March 2004 5:37 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Skip links and Accessibility Info Links

I tend to use top navigation with 2 or 3 column content (and the left
content div usually containing specifc info with further links)  for
most of the layouts of my pages, since this is what so many clients
want.

Generally speaking (with various exceptions and diferences)  reader
display of most of these show:


  
 

How does the list feel about putting in generalized (not hidden) skip
links as an initial div before the header of all page except the home
page to allow readers to skip to the content div?  One design issue is
that the header is no longer at 0, which doesn't bother me - but I don't
know how others feel about that either.  Or would it be better to build
the skip link as part of the top/logo div using "hidden"?

Guess I chould add the caveat that I do a lot of "charity" (I hate that
word) work for small non-profits often disability related

Also,  either techniqu aside,  are peope also adding in a link to an
accesibility information page?  Are people setting up pages now to
explain what tab indexes have been used throughout the site (consitantly
of course), etc?   I have one set up for the latest donation site, but I
don't know if that's going to far?

One last thing - what is the feeling on adding accesskey info on title
or alt tags?  Or in long description tags for those it works for?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on these.

Susan

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Re: [WSG] Skip links and Accessibility Info Links

[James Ellis]

Hi Susan

There's been a lot of talk here about skip links, recently I tried to 
use some of the information in a live beta of the new Sydney PHP Group 
site (http://sydney.ug.php.net).
Basically I went for skip links that would be useful to all visitors

I have tho' been looking at aural stylesheets...
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/aural.html#speaking-props
...and am wondering whether this could be incorporated with the general 
idea of hiding skip links for visual users but making them readable to 
non-visual users:
(e.g using visibility : hidden, as display  :none causes the box to not 
be generated.) According to the above link, "speak" defaults to normal.

The other idea I had was to set the #skip to display : none in screen 
stylesheets and then set it to be rendered in an aural stylesheet. I'm 
not sure if this will work, straight off the top of my head. How well 
supported are aural stylesheets?

There are some things that might occur with search engine listings:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=skip+to+content
(altho who is going to search for "skip to content"?)
Cheers
James
Susan R. Grossman wrote:

I tend to use top navigation with 2 or 3 column content (and the left
content div usually containing specifc info with further links)  for
most of the layouts of my pages, since this is what so many clients
want.
Generally speaking (with various exceptions and diferences)  reader
display of most of these show:






How does the list feel about putting in generalized (not hidden) skip
links as an initial div before the header of all page except the home
page to allow readers to skip to the content div?  One design issue is
that the header is no longer at 0, which doesn't bother me - but I don't
know how others feel about that either.  Or would it be better to build
the skip link as part of the top/logo div using "hidden"?
Guess I chould add the caveat that I do a lot of "charity" (I hate that
word) work for small non-profits often disability related
Also,  either techniqu aside,  are peope also adding in a link to an
accesibility information page?  Are people setting up pages now to
explain what tab indexes have been used throughout the site (consitantly
of course), etc?   I have one set up for the latest donation site, but I
don't know if that's going to far?
One last thing - what is the feeling on adding accesskey info on title
or alt tags?  Or in long description tags for those it works for?
Thanks in advance for any thoughts on these.

Susan

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
* 

 

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The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
* 

[WSG] Skip links and Accessibility Info Links

[Susan R. Grossman]

I tend to use top navigation with 2 or 3 column content (and the left
content div usually containing specifc info with further links)  for
most of the layouts of my pages, since this is what so many clients
want.

Generally speaking (with various exceptions and diferences)  reader
display of most of these show:








How does the list feel about putting in generalized (not hidden) skip
links as an initial div before the header of all page except the home
page to allow readers to skip to the content div?  One design issue is
that the header is no longer at 0, which doesn't bother me - but I don't
know how others feel about that either.  Or would it be better to build
the skip link as part of the top/logo div using "hidden"?

Guess I chould add the caveat that I do a lot of "charity" (I hate that
word) work for small non-profits often disability related

Also,  either techniqu aside,  are peope also adding in a link to an
accesibility information page?  Are people setting up pages now to
explain what tab indexes have been used throughout the site (consitantly
of course), etc?   I have one set up for the latest donation site, but I
don't know if that's going to far?

One last thing - what is the feeling on adding accesskey info on title
or alt tags?  Or in long description tags for those it works for?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on these.

Susan

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
*