RE: [WSG] Best way to hide form legends?

2008-04-30 Thread Dennis Lapcewich
I figured that was what you meant.

At the same time, it can be a dangerous assumption.  For example, by the
time an individual starts kicking at 40 years old, changes to the eyes
occur.  It's called presbyopia.  It's a normal course of aging that
literally affects 100 percent of people at some time in their lives as they
age.   Add into the mix that populations in general are aging, online
populations include people of all ages and more and more "older folks."
So for all intents and purposes, addressing the needs of "normal" users
includes accessibility as a normal course of doing business for site owners
and those who manage those web sites.  The real problem is convincing the
site owners that accessibility is good business and does provide tangible
and intangible benefits.  I guess it all boils down to whether you want to
be dragged kicking in screaming into reality (and possibly pay the costs
for such short-sightedness) or accept life for what it is and address
accessibility for what we all will experience to some degree.  I choose the
latter, regardless of the fact it's required by law for me.

Dennis


> By that I meant someone who sees and interacts with the website in the
most
> common way. Seeing the page, viewing it with CSS & images on, using a
mouse
> etc.
>
> The user most people design their sites for.
>
> >
> > I've got a search box and login area that I want to use a fieldset and
> > legend on for accessibility but I don't want to show the legend to
normal
> > users.
>
> I'm sorry but what is a "normal" user?
>
>



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Re: [WSG] Best way to hide form legends?

2008-04-30 Thread Ben Buchanan
> .hidden {
> position: absolute;
> left: -999em;
> width: 990em;
> }
>

For that method you're missing the overflow rule. Try this:

.hidden {
position: absolute;
left: -5000px;
width: 4000px;
overflow: hidden;
}


cheers,
Ben



-- 
--- 
--- The future has arrived; it's just not
--- evenly distributed. - William Gibson


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RE: [WSG] Best way to hide form legends?

2008-04-30 Thread Simon
By that I meant someone who sees and interacts with the website in the most
common way. Seeing the page, viewing it with CSS & images on, using a mouse
etc.

The user most people design their sites for.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dennis Lapcewich
Sent: 30 April 2008 22:02
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Best way to hide form legends?

>
> I've got a search box and login area that I want to use a fieldset and
> legend on for accessibility but I don't want to show the legend to normal
> users.

I'm sorry but what is a "normal" user?


Dennis




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Re: [WSG] Best way to hide form legends?

2008-04-30 Thread Dennis Lapcewich
>
> I've got a search box and login area that I want to use a fieldset and
> legend on for accessibility but I don't want to show the legend to normal
> users.

I'm sorry but what is a "normal" user?


Dennis




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Re: [WSG] Best way to hide form legends?

2008-04-30 Thread Jens Brueckmann
>  I've got a search box and login area that I want to use a fieldset and
>  legend on for accessibility but I don't want to show the legend to normal
>  users.

This might work

.hidden  {
   text-indent: -999em;
  padding: 0;
  }

Cheers,

jens

-- 
Jens Brueckmann
http://www.yalf.de


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Re: [WSG] Best way to hide form legends?

2008-04-30 Thread Svip
Well then, only tell him to use the hidden part for specific media,
such as projection or whatever.  Don't screenreaders obey that?

Regards,
Svip

2008/4/30 Dan Brickley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Svip wrote:
>
> > Tried "display: none;"?
> >
>
>  >> Now I can easily hide it with display: none; but
>
>  Apparently so...
>
>
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Svip
> >
> > 2008/4/30 Simon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > >  I've got a search box and login area that I want to use a fieldset and
> > >  legend on for accessibility but I don't want to show the legend to
> normal
> > >  users. Now I can easily hide it with display: none; but I understand
> this is
> > >  hidden from certain screenreaders as well, which well render the
> benefit of
> > >  it being there pointless as they are the type of user I am implementing
> it
> > >  for.
> > >
> > >  I have tried:
> > >
> > >  .hidden {
> > >  position: absolute;
> > >  left:0px;
> > >  top:-500px;
> > >  width:1px;
> > >  height:1px;
> > >  overflow:hidden;
> > >  }
> > >
> > >  And:
> > >
> > >  .hidden {
> > >  position: absolute;
> > >  left: -999em;
> > >  width: 990em;
> > >  }
> > >
> > >  But it just sits there, am I missing something obvious and has anyone
> had
> > >  any joy with something similar?
> > >
> > >  Thanks very much
> > >  Simon
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
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RE: [WSG] Best way to hide form legends?

2008-04-30 Thread Simon
I can't believe I didn't try that.

Works a treat, thanks!

Simon

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lord Armitage
Sent: 30 April 2008 20:46
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Best way to hide form legends?

Hy simon,

Legends a very nasty to style and position you should wrap the legend
text in a span (or some other inline! element) to be able to position
it.


-- 
cheers
Milan


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Re: [WSG] Best way to hide form legends?

2008-04-30 Thread Dan Brickley

Svip wrote:

Tried "display: none;"?


>> Now I can easily hide it with display: none; but

Apparently so...



Regards,
Svip

2008/4/30 Simon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

Hi,

 I've got a search box and login area that I want to use a fieldset and
 legend on for accessibility but I don't want to show the legend to normal
 users. Now I can easily hide it with display: none; but I understand this is
 hidden from certain screenreaders as well, which well render the benefit of
 it being there pointless as they are the type of user I am implementing it
 for.

 I have tried:

 .hidden {
 position: absolute;
 left:0px;
 top:-500px;
 width:1px;
 height:1px;
 overflow:hidden;
 }

 And:

 .hidden {
 position: absolute;
 left: -999em;
 width: 990em;
 }

 But it just sits there, am I missing something obvious and has anyone had
 any joy with something similar?

 Thanks very much
 Simon




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Re: [WSG] Best way to hide form legends?

2008-04-30 Thread Svip
Tried "display: none;"?

Regards,
Svip

2008/4/30 Simon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Hi,
>
>  I've got a search box and login area that I want to use a fieldset and
>  legend on for accessibility but I don't want to show the legend to normal
>  users. Now I can easily hide it with display: none; but I understand this is
>  hidden from certain screenreaders as well, which well render the benefit of
>  it being there pointless as they are the type of user I am implementing it
>  for.
>
>  I have tried:
>
>  .hidden {
>  position: absolute;
>  left:0px;
>  top:-500px;
>  width:1px;
>  height:1px;
>  overflow:hidden;
>  }
>
>  And:
>
>  .hidden {
>  position: absolute;
>  left: -999em;
>  width: 990em;
>  }
>
>  But it just sits there, am I missing something obvious and has anyone had
>  any joy with something similar?
>
>  Thanks very much
>  Simon
>
>
>
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Re: [WSG] Best way to hide form legends?

2008-04-30 Thread Lord Armitage
Hy simon,

Legends a very nasty to style and position you should wrap the legend
text in a span (or some other inline! element) to be able to position
it.


-- 
cheers
Milan


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