Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
I always remind people if music auto starts the potential customers can't come to your site at work because they won't want their boss to hear the music blaring. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 dwain wrote: On 3/17/08, *kevin mcmonagle* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, Im doing a site for a nightclub. So im doing a hybrid. The owner has demanded a music track playing continuously. What would you lot do if you had to put in a continually playing music track? i would suggest allowing the user to stop the music if they so choose. not everybody likes the same music or song, so he could lose many visitors because of the continuous track with no way to stop it. on the other hand a visitor could mute the sound. dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
I would also make sure a way of turning the music off is immediately apparent. Nothing is more annoying than having to look all over to find off button Looks like someone borrowed a thread name? lol Bruce bkdesign solutions - Original Message - From: Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction I always remind people if music auto starts the potential customers can't come to your site at work because they won't want their boss to hear the music blaring. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 dwain wrote: On 3/17/08, *kevin mcmonagle* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, Im doing a site for a nightclub. So im doing a hybrid. The owner has demanded a music track playing continuously. What would you lot do if you had to put in a continually playing music track? i would suggest allowing the user to stop the music if they so choose. not everybody likes the same music or song, so he could lose many visitors because of the continuous track with no way to stop it. on the other hand a visitor could mute the sound. dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
hi, Im doing a site for a nightclub. So im doing a hybrid. The owner has demanded a music track playing continuously. What would you lot do if you had to put in a continually playing music track? I mean the only solution that is a frameset right but i just want some feedback of the dangers of this. -thanks in advance kev *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
I'd use flash. http://www.gothamsounddesign.com/ is a fairly good example of an 'unobtrusive' flash player. On 18/03/2008, at 3:10 AM, kevin mcmonagle wrote: hi, Im doing a site for a nightclub. So im doing a hybrid. The owner has demanded a music track playing continuously. What would you lot do if you had to put in a continually playing music track? I mean the only solution that is a frameset right but i just want some feedback of the dangers of this. -thanks in advance kev *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** best wishes, John Hancock Identity [EMAIL PROTECTED] t: +61 2 8012 2967 f: +61 2 9799 6135 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
If you can't talk the guy out of it then try and get him to at least allow the USER to start the music. If not that then I would suggest teh next course is a flash player but at half volume and make SURE that the START and STOP button is easy to find. I wouldn't use a frameset for anything. On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 10:26 AM, John Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd use flash. http://www.gothamsounddesign.com/ is a fairly good example of an 'unobtrusive' flash player. On 18/03/2008, at 3:10 AM, kevin mcmonagle wrote: hi, Im doing a site for a nightclub. So im doing a hybrid. The owner has demanded a music track playing continuously. What would you lot do if you had to put in a continually playing music track? I mean the only solution that is a frameset right but i just want some feedback of the dangers of this. -thanks in advance kev *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** best wishes, John Hancock *Identity* [EMAIL PROTECTED] t: +61 2 8012 2967 f: +61 2 9799 6135 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Frederick *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
On 3/17/08, kevin mcmonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, Im doing a site for a nightclub. So im doing a hybrid. The owner has demanded a music track playing continuously. What would you lot do if you had to put in a continually playing music track? i would suggest allowing the user to stop the music if they so choose. not everybody likes the same music or song, so he could lose many visitors because of the continuous track with no way to stop it. on the other hand a visitor could mute the sound. dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
Hi Kev, I would recommend that you do not loop music as this often does not sit well with many types of visitors. If you offer a choice for visitors to turn off the sound as well... Good luck with the site! Nick Nick Stamoulis President Brick Marketing Direct: 781-350-4365 Cell: 781-223-3651 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.BrickMarketing.com Read Daily Updates In My Blog: http://www.SearchEngineOptimizationJournal.com - Original Message - Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction From: John Hancock ;[EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, March 17, 2008 12:26 I'd use flash. http://www.gothamsounddesign.com/ is a fairly good example of an 'unobtrusive' flash player. On 18/03/2008, at 3:10 AM, kevin mcmonagle wrote: hi, Im doing a site for a nightclub. So im doing a hybrid. The owner has demanded a music track playing continuously. What would you lot do if you had to put in a continually playing music track? I mean the only solution that is a frameset right but i just want some feedback of the dangers of this. -thanks in advance kev *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** best wishes, John Hancock Identity [EMAIL PROTECTED] t: +61 2 8012 2967 f: +61 2 9799 6135 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:10:31 +, kevin mcmonagle wrote: hi, Im doing a site for a nightclub. So im doing a hybrid. The owner has demanded a music track playing continuously. What would you lot do if you had to put in a continually playing music track? Hi Kev - Because I am on dial-up at home, I get out a lot. :) At the various Wi-Fi hotspots I inhabit, I see many surfing with their headphones on, listening to their own sound track. I can only imagine that, should they come across a site playing something not of their choice over the top of their music, that they would hit the back button PDQ. I know almost nothing about SEO, but knowing a little about how search bots work, I can't imagine them taking notice of a music player. If it were me, I would deliver a normal web page (no frames) and offer the visitor the choice of playing the music, or not. Cordially, David -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
I will throw my 2 cents in and say that nothing is more annoying than going to a web site and suddenly being bombarded with loud music you don't want to hear. In face, I got an add-in for Firefox so that I could safely use MySpace without a cacophony of noises playing without my control. Keep in mind -- there is no way to set the volume for a web-based music track. If I have volume up because I am listening to low-gain audio and then a web page plays something at top decibel... there go my ear drums if I'm wearing headphones... Just my 2 cents. -- The generation that took acid to escape reality Is now taking antacid to deal with reality http://dwacon.blogspot.comhttp://dwacon.blogspot.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
hi, i think if i cold sell him on a player that would be user controlled. I will tell him he can put in more tracks by his dj's. Sorry i meant to change the title of the post. thanks a million. -kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction - ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED
--- ADMIN --- Hi all, We have had some complaints that this SEO, fact or fiction thread is off-topic. We have left it alone till now as the list has been surprisingly (spookily) quite for the last week. However, the thread has now gone on long enough. So, this thread is now officially shut down. PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS THREAD Replying to this thread could result in a warning email and a note sent home to your mother. Repeat offenders may be removed from the mail list, as outlined in the mail list guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm If you have an issue with the closing of this thread, please do not discuss it on list, email [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Have a nice seo-fact-or-fiction-free day :) Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
Hello Everyone, Thanks a bomb for all your thoughts! You've been most helpful. In future I'll be more careful with keeping any queries more obviously standards-centric. Thanks again, Dannielle On 9/3/08 7:46 PM, Mark Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: tee wrote: On Mar 7, 2008, at 12:36 AM, Stuart Foulstone wrote: Hi, Search robots are essentially blind users. Anybody knows about this? I think what Kevin meant is that the googlebot takes no notice of graphical navigation or information, much as a blind user is unable to see it. The googlebot is also unable to process javascript navigation and links, so be sure to have alternate navigation. If you develop your pages with blind users in mind, it will serendipitously help you with the googlebot. The robots text is good for search robots, but I read from somewhere, that robots text no longer is needed when Google Sitemap is implemented for the site. I didn't know robots text was important for accessibility, however I learned from the accessites team that it is. As Lea said, someone is confused. No assistive technology that I know of pays any attention to the robots.txt file, nor would they gain much information from it if they did. The main use of a robots.txt file is to tell unwelcome search bots to go away. cheers mark *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction and myths
On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 16:11:53 -0800, tee wrote: Anybody knows about this? The robots text is good for search robots, but I read from somewhere, that robots text no longer is needed when Google Sitemap is implemented for the site. For Google bots, there are some elements of Google Sitemaps that interact with the robots.txt file. No other bots have access to Google Sitemaps info. You still want a robot.txt file even if you are using Google Sitemaps I didn't know robots text was important for accessibility, however I learned from the accessites team that it is. Umm... no - you (or someone) has mixed up robots.txt with something else (not sure what!) robots.txt is generally used to tell bots where they can't go. People who benefit from high accessability in a site are not bots! :) I can't think of *any* overlap between accessability and robots.txt True statement: 'if it is accessible then a bot will be able to crawl it well' (a general rule, anyway) False statement: 'if you block a bot with robots.txt then the site is not accessible' IMHO warmly, Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems Brisbane, Australia *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
tee wrote: On Mar 7, 2008, at 12:36 AM, Stuart Foulstone wrote: Hi, Search robots are essentially blind users. Anybody knows about this? I think what Kevin meant is that the googlebot takes no notice of graphical navigation or information, much as a blind user is unable to see it. The googlebot is also unable to process javascript navigation and links, so be sure to have alternate navigation. If you develop your pages with blind users in mind, it will serendipitously help you with the googlebot. The robots text is good for search robots, but I read from somewhere, that robots text no longer is needed when Google Sitemap is implemented for the site. I didn't know robots text was important for accessibility, however I learned from the accessites team that it is. As Lea said, someone is confused. No assistive technology that I know of pays any attention to the robots.txt file, nor would they gain much information from it if they did. The main use of a robots.txt file is to tell unwelcome search bots to go away. cheers mark *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
I believe you got it somewhat wrong. The basic purpose of a robots.txt file is to tell a search engine what not to index - and you can issue different instructions to each robot separately. It does not tell the robots which pages to index, except for the basic tenet that anything not explicitly forbidden is fair game. The very purpose of a sitemap is to list every page in a site you want indexed - handy when some pages are difficult to reach just following links (this shouldn't happen, but in the real world sometimes it does). You can also tell the search engine how often do you expect a page to be updated and which pages you deem more important than the rest. Search engines may or may not care. In plain-speak: if you list a page in your sitemap, but robots.txt says (either to all bots or a specific one) to stay away from it, it won't be indexed; conversely, if you do not list a page in the sitemap, but the robot finds it out some other way (say, following a link either on your site or somebody's else) it will be indexed unless robots.txt forbids it. Robots.txt and sitemaps are thus in different lines of business and you may as well make good use of both even if neither is - strictly speaking - needed. You may omit a robots.txt if you're OK with everything on the site being indexed; you may omit the sitemap if the site has a simple strutcure with all pages cross-linked. The only relation between the two, according to sitemap.org, is that you may use robots.txt for autodiscovery of the sitemap: the Big Three search engines have agreed on a convention to look into the file for the position of the sitemap. djn tee wrote: On Mar 7, 2008, at 12:36 AM, Stuart Foulstone wrote: Hi, Search robots are essentially blind users. Anybody knows about this? The robots text is good for search robots, but I read from somewhere, that robots text no longer is needed when Google Sitemap is implemented for the site. I didn't know robots text was important for accessibility, however I learned from the accessites team that it is. Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- - Dejan Kozina Web design studio Dolina 346 (TS) - I-34018 Italy tel./fax: +39 040 228 436 - cell.: +39 348 7355 225 skype: dejankozina http://www.kozina.com/ - e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction and myths
I didn't know robots text was important for accessibility, however I learned from the accessites team that it is. Tee, The reasons we (Accessites) look for a robots.txt file is because it keeps honest bots from wasting their time and your bandwidth indexing directories/files you don't want indexed. We don't look at this as part of a web accessibility requirement. Our focus is on quality sites for which accessibility must be an integral part. Thus, we like to see things like a robots.txt file, PICS label, semantics, good looks, and more, of course. Regarding a site map, that we like to see for accessibility and not for bots at all. A site map is important to accessibility as some user will seek out a site map right away to grasp a site's overview and offerings. For some users, this is the best way to begin the exploration of a site. In my opinion, html site maps don't have anything to do with indexing other than just being another indexable page. It is my understanding, though, that an XML site map can help indexing but being that I've never used one or looked into it much, I can neither confirm or deny this. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Respectfully, Mike Cherim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction and myths
Hi Michael, That seems incredibly arbitrary when a robots.txt is purely optional - especially as the default spider behavior is to index all unless told otherwise. So you're penalizing people by having your robot behave in the opposite manner? And regarding PICS labels, most people don't know how to set them or don't have the requisite server access. How do you justify these? Cheers, John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike at Green-Beast.com Sent: Monday, 10 March 2008 12:52 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction and myths I didn't know robots text was important for accessibility, however I learned from the accessites team that it is. Tee, The reasons we (Accessites) look for a robots.txt file is because it keeps honest bots from wasting their time and your bandwidth indexing directories/files you don't want indexed. We don't look at this as part of a web accessibility requirement. Our focus is on quality sites for which accessibility must be an integral part. Thus, we like to see things like a robots.txt file, PICS label, semantics, good looks, and more, of course. Regarding a site map, that we like to see for accessibility and not for bots at all. A site map is important to accessibility as some user will seek out a site map right away to grasp a site's overview and offerings. For some users, this is the best way to begin the exploration of a site. In my opinion, html site maps don't have anything to do with indexing other than just being another indexable page. It is my understanding, though, that an XML site map can help indexing but being that I've never used one or looked into it much, I can neither confirm or deny this. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Respectfully, Mike Cherim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction and myths
That seems incredibly arbitrary when a robots.txt is purely optional - especially as the default spider behavior is to index all unless told otherwise. So you're penalizing people by having your robot behave in the opposite manner? And regarding PICS labels, most people don't know how to set them or don't have the requisite server access. How do you justify these? John, We don't necessarily penalize for not having one, we just credit for having one (offering one is not part of our criteria [1]). It's something we like to see. For the reasons I stated: we grade a site on many levels, and we see that providing a robots.txt as a positive thing that helps make a site/domain complete. Same with a PICS label, it's not a requirement, though I believe a PICS label can actually help with access in that some schools districts won't allow network access to site that doesn't claim to be appropriate for the level of the students the system serves. Regarding requisite server access I don't understand. The PICS label is put into the head of the document. If a developer doesn't understand how to get a PICS label or can't add one to the head and don't have access to such, I doubt they'd be submitting a site for possible awarding. But, regardless, the main point of my reply was to clarify that the robots.txt file has no bearing on the site's accessibility (that I'm aware of) and that's it's just one of the many things we look for in a quality submission. Cheers. Mike [1] http://accessites.org/site/criteria/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction and myths
Nice to hear again about PICS. I use to label all my websites, but I've ofter wondered if I'm the last one using this (and P3P...). djn Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: That seems incredibly arbitrary when a robots.txt is purely optional - especially as the default spider behavior is to index all unless told otherwise. So you're penalizing people by having your robot behave in the opposite manner? And regarding PICS labels, most people don't know how to set them or don't have the requisite server access. How do you justify these? John, We don't necessarily penalize for not having one, we just credit for having one (offering one is not part of our criteria [1]). It's something we like to see. For the reasons I stated: we grade a site on many levels, and we see that providing a robots.txt as a positive thing that helps make a site/domain complete. Same with a PICS label, it's not a requirement, though I believe a PICS label can actually help with access in that some schools districts won't allow network access to site that doesn't claim to be appropriate for the level of the students the system serves. Regarding requisite server access I don't understand. The PICS label is put into the head of the document. If a developer doesn't understand how to get a PICS label or can't add one to the head and don't have access to such, I doubt they'd be submitting a site for possible awarding. But, regardless, the main point of my reply was to clarify that the robots.txt file has no bearing on the site's accessibility (that I'm aware of) and that's it's just one of the many things we look for in a quality submission. Cheers. Mike [1] http://accessites.org/site/criteria/ -- - Dejan Kozina Web design studio Dolina 346 (TS) - I-34018 Italy tel./fax: +39 040 228 436 - cell.: +39 348 7355 225 skype: dejankozina http://www.kozina.com/ - e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction and myths
Okay then. What is an example of an accessible robots.txt file? Are you also talking about the site map link you see on large web sites? Angus MacKinnon Infoforce Services http:ééwww.infoforce-services.com It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible. George Washington *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
On Mar 7, 2008, at 12:36 AM, Stuart Foulstone wrote: Hi, Search robots are essentially blind users. Anybody knows about this? The robots text is good for search robots, but I read from somewhere, that robots text no longer is needed when Google Sitemap is implemented for the site. I didn't know robots text was important for accessibility, however I learned from the accessites team that it is. Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
Hi, Search robots are essentially blind users. Design to Web accessibility standards and you remove all the clutter that can get in the way of bots traversing your site and also include information that they might otherwise miss (e.g. through alt attributes). The easier it is to find keywords the better your ranking for them. Stuart On Fri, March 7, 2008 4:15 am, Andrew Boyd wrote: Hi Michael, I suspect that there is some connection. Taken broadly, if SEO is done badly (i.e. SEO optimised templates produced without a lot of thought and keyword over-rich content) then it certainly gets in the way of the basic business of human beings filling a human need - and if that is not what web standards are trying to guarantee, then I'm not sure what they are :) Cheers, Andrew Andrew Boyd Consultant SMS Management Technology M 0413 048 542 T +61 2 6279 7100 F +61 2 6279 7101 [EMAIL PROTECTED] About SMS: Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT ACT 2609 www.smsmt.com SMS Management Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform business through Consulting, People and Technology From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 7 March 2008 2:53 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction Not trying to infer anything. I really was wondering how standard affect SEO. I tend to focus on content and using keywords in the natural presentation of the page info and strongly looking for sites that can interconnect legitimately. But didn't know how or if web standards played a part in this or not. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Andrew Boyd wrote: Hi Keith, I suspect that Michael may be inferring that SEO is not a fit and proper subject for the WSG list. I'm happy either way - it isn't strictly web standards per se, but neither is IE8 Beta's underperformance, and I am glad to learn about both without subscribing to other lists. Moderaptor call I guess :) Cheers, Andrew *Andrew Boyd *Consultant *SMS Management Technology* M 0413 048 542 T +61 2 6279 7100 F +61 2 6279 7101 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *About SMS: *Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT ACT 2609 www.smsmt.com https://magellan.smsmt.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.smsmt.com/ SMS Management Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform business through Consulting, People and Technology *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Steinacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Friday, 7 March 2008 1:36 PM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction I don't really understand your question. On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the SEO issues in web standards? Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Keith Steinacher wrote: What I meant by 1 set fee was I'll get you top rankings on all search engines and fix all your woes for $99.99!! Charging by the page or per hour (as I do it) is more legitimate. Some projects you can't really charge by the page though. I have one client who's site has 600,000 pages or more. I'm not going to go through it page by page. At that point it becomes necessary to make the SEO of a site more dynamic. While anyone can learn how to do SEO from a book or an online class, it doesn't necessary mean that they can take your site (of any size) and make it number 1 for a canned fee. Anyone that tells you that is not to be trusted. On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 6:07 PM, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/4/08, *Keith Steinacher* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't pay much attention to anyone that says they can solve all of your site's problems for 1 set fee. why not? i charge by the page and do the seo myself. there's a free class at: http://www.gnc-web-creations.com/seo-optimization.htm dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky
RE: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
Hi, Search robots are essentially blind users. Design to Web accessibility standards and you remove all the clutter that can get in the way of bots traversing your site and also include information that they might otherwise miss (e.g. through alt attributes). The easier it is to find keywords the better your ranking for them. Stuart On Fri, March 7, 2008 4:15 am, Andrew Boyd wrote: Hi Michael, I suspect that there is some connection. Taken broadly, if SEO is done badly (i.e. SEO optimised templates produced without a lot of thought and keyword over-rich content) then it certainly gets in the way of the basic business of human beings filling a human need - and if that is not what web standards are trying to guarantee, then I'm not sure what they are :) Cheers, Andrew Andrew Boyd Consultant SMS Management Technology M 0413 048 542 T +61 2 6279 7100 F +61 2 6279 7101 [EMAIL PROTECTED] About SMS: Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT ACT 2609 www.smsmt.com SMS Management Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform business through Consulting, People and Technology From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 7 March 2008 2:53 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction Not trying to infer anything. I really was wondering how standard affect SEO. I tend to focus on content and using keywords in the natural presentation of the page info and strongly looking for sites that can interconnect legitimately. But didn't know how or if web standards played a part in this or not. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Andrew Boyd wrote: Hi Keith, I suspect that Michael may be inferring that SEO is not a fit and proper subject for the WSG list. I'm happy either way - it isn't strictly web standards per se, but neither is IE8 Beta's underperformance, and I am glad to learn about both without subscribing to other lists. Moderaptor call I guess :) Cheers, Andrew *Andrew Boyd *Consultant *SMS Management Technology* M 0413 048 542 T +61 2 6279 7100 F +61 2 6279 7101 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *About SMS: *Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT ACT 2609 www.smsmt.com https://magellan.smsmt.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.smsmt.com/ SMS Management Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform business through Consulting, People and Technology - *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
On 3/5/08, Keith Steinacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I meant by 1 set fee was I'll get you top rankings on all search engines and fix all your woes for $99.99!! i see what you mean now. While anyone can learn how to do SEO from a book or an online class, it doesn't necessary mean that they can take your site (of any size) and make it number 1 for a canned fee. Anyone that tells you that is not to be trusted. and probably doesn't really know what they are doing. you mentioned making seo more dynamic on a large site. what do you mean by dynamic? let's take this off list, i think we are straying from the web standards theme, but you have me interested in this dynamic thing. dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
What are the SEO issues in web standards? Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Keith Steinacher wrote: What I meant by 1 set fee was I'll get you top rankings on all search engines and fix all your woes for $99.99!! Charging by the page or per hour (as I do it) is more legitimate. Some projects you can't really charge by the page though. I have one client who's site has 600,000 pages or more. I'm not going to go through it page by page. At that point it becomes necessary to make the SEO of a site more dynamic. While anyone can learn how to do SEO from a book or an online class, it doesn't necessary mean that they can take your site (of any size) and make it number 1 for a canned fee. Anyone that tells you that is not to be trusted. On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 6:07 PM, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/4/08, *Keith Steinacher* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't pay much attention to anyone that says they can solve all of your site's problems for 1 set fee. why not? i charge by the page and do the seo myself. there's a free class at: http://www.gnc-web-creations.com/seo-optimization.htm dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Keith Steinacher Chief Bottle-Washer *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
I don't really understand your question. On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the SEO issues in web standards? Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Keith Steinacher wrote: What I meant by 1 set fee was I'll get you top rankings on all search engines and fix all your woes for $99.99!! Charging by the page or per hour (as I do it) is more legitimate. Some projects you can't really charge by the page though. I have one client who's site has 600,000 pages or more. I'm not going to go through it page by page. At that point it becomes necessary to make the SEO of a site more dynamic. While anyone can learn how to do SEO from a book or an online class, it doesn't necessary mean that they can take your site (of any size) and make it number 1 for a canned fee. Anyone that tells you that is not to be trusted. On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 6:07 PM, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/4/08, *Keith Steinacher* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't pay much attention to anyone that says they can solve all of your site's problems for 1 set fee. why not? i charge by the page and do the seo myself. there's a free class at: http://www.gnc-web-creations.com/seo-optimization.htm dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Keith Steinacher Chief Bottle-Washer *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Keith Steinacher Chief Bottle-Washer *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
Hi Michael, I take the perspective that a site built to web standards provides a framework for content which doesn't have any 'points' deducted from it. SEO in my experience is divided up into the main sections 1) inbound links and references 2) linking structure 3) page build quality 4) content 1 and 4 are unfortunately, 'King' (we've all heard that content is king, but inbound links certainly count for as much on Google). If you imaging a point scale where the search engine gives points based on content, and then takes them away based on the problems or inadequacies with a website build (i.e. home page not linked to as /, no lang=en/fr/etc tag, links in tables instead of ul's or a separate div), you have the manner in which web standards affect SEO issues. As such, there should be no SEO issues in a standards- compliant website - think of google as a plain text reader where the content:code ratio should be as high as possible. Other issues include not using ?id as a query string as this is how google did it, so a lot fail to rank if you don't use ?pid/?cid etc, and suchlike, but I'd say these are more language-based or protocol based and that's a pretty small niche in web standards. I feel that more on the subject would take my response away from Web Standards, so feel free to contact me off-list if you want to discuss further. best wishes, John Hancock Identity [EMAIL PROTECTED] t: +61 2 8012 2967 f: +61 2 9799 6135 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
Hi Keith, I suspect that Michael may be inferring that SEO is not a fit and proper subject for the WSG list. I'm happy either way - it isn't strictly web standards per se, but neither is IE8 Beta's underperformance, and I am glad to learn about both without subscribing to other lists. Moderaptor call I guess :) Cheers, Andrew Andrew Boyd Consultant SMS Management Technology M 0413 048 542 T +61 2 6279 7100 F +61 2 6279 7101 [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] About SMS: Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT ACT 2609 www.smsmt.comhttps://magellan.smsmt.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.smsmt.com/ SMS Management Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform business through Consulting, People and Technology From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Steinacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 7 March 2008 1:36 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction I don't really understand your question. On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the SEO issues in web standards? Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Keith Steinacher wrote: What I meant by 1 set fee was I'll get you top rankings on all search engines and fix all your woes for $99.99!! Charging by the page or per hour (as I do it) is more legitimate. Some projects you can't really charge by the page though. I have one client who's site has 600,000 pages or more. I'm not going to go through it page by page. At that point it becomes necessary to make the SEO of a site more dynamic. While anyone can learn how to do SEO from a book or an online class, it doesn't necessary mean that they can take your site (of any size) and make it number 1 for a canned fee. Anyone that tells you that is not to be trusted. On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 6:07 PM, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/4/08, *Keith Steinacher* [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't pay much attention to anyone that says they can solve all of your site's problems for 1 set fee. why not? i charge by the page and do the seo myself. there's a free class at: http://www.gnc-web-creations.com/seo-optimization.htm dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Keith Steinacher Chief Bottle-Washer *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Keith Steinacher Chief Bottle-Washer *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** NOTICE - This communication is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking any action in reliance on, this communication by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please delete and destroy all copies and telephone SMS Management Technology on 9696 0911 immediately. Any views expressed in this Communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of SMS Management Technology. Except as required by law, SMS Management Technology does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
BTW out of curiosity I googled and SEO firm someone I know used and the firm wasn't in the top 10 ranking it claimed it could put its customers in. Did see a good article on it though *What's an SEO? Does Google recommend working with companies that offer to make my site Google-friendly? * http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=enanswer=35291 Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Andrew Boyd wrote: Hi Keith, I suspect that Michael may be inferring that SEO is not a fit and proper subject for the WSG list. I'm happy either way - it isn't strictly web standards per se, but neither is IE8 Beta's underperformance, and I am glad to learn about both without subscribing to other lists. Moderaptor call I guess :) Cheers, Andrew *Andrew Boyd *Consultant *SMS Management Technology* M 0413 048 542 T +61 2 6279 7100 F +61 2 6279 7101 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *About SMS: *Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT ACT 2609 www.smsmt.com https://magellan.smsmt.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.smsmt.com/ SMS Management Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform business through Consulting, People and Technology *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Steinacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Friday, 7 March 2008 1:36 PM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction I don't really understand your question. On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the SEO issues in web standards? Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Keith Steinacher wrote: What I meant by 1 set fee was I'll get you top rankings on all search engines and fix all your woes for $99.99!! Charging by the page or per hour (as I do it) is more legitimate. Some projects you can't really charge by the page though. I have one client who's site has 600,000 pages or more. I'm not going to go through it page by page. At that point it becomes necessary to make the SEO of a site more dynamic. While anyone can learn how to do SEO from a book or an online class, it doesn't necessary mean that they can take your site (of any size) and make it number 1 for a canned fee. Anyone that tells you that is not to be trusted. On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 6:07 PM, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/4/08, *Keith Steinacher* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't pay much attention to anyone that says they can solve all of your site's problems for 1 set fee. why not? i charge by the page and do the seo myself. there's a free class at: http://www.gnc-web-creations.com/seo-optimization.htm dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Keith Steinacher Chief Bottle-Washer *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Keith Steinacher Chief Bottle-Washer *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED
RE: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
Hi Michael, I suspect that there is some connection. Taken broadly, if SEO is done badly (i.e. SEO optimised templates produced without a lot of thought and keyword over-rich content) then it certainly gets in the way of the basic business of human beings filling a human need - and if that is not what web standards are trying to guarantee, then I'm not sure what they are :) Cheers, Andrew Andrew Boyd Consultant SMS Management Technology M 0413 048 542 T +61 2 6279 7100 F +61 2 6279 7101 [EMAIL PROTECTED] About SMS: Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT ACT 2609 www.smsmt.com SMS Management Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform business through Consulting, People and Technology From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 7 March 2008 2:53 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction Not trying to infer anything. I really was wondering how standard affect SEO. I tend to focus on content and using keywords in the natural presentation of the page info and strongly looking for sites that can interconnect legitimately. But didn't know how or if web standards played a part in this or not. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Andrew Boyd wrote: Hi Keith, I suspect that Michael may be inferring that SEO is not a fit and proper subject for the WSG list. I'm happy either way - it isn't strictly web standards per se, but neither is IE8 Beta's underperformance, and I am glad to learn about both without subscribing to other lists. Moderaptor call I guess :) Cheers, Andrew *Andrew Boyd *Consultant *SMS Management Technology* M 0413 048 542 T +61 2 6279 7100 F +61 2 6279 7101 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *About SMS: *Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT ACT 2609 www.smsmt.com https://magellan.smsmt.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.smsmt.com/ SMS Management Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform business through Consulting, People and Technology *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Steinacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Friday, 7 March 2008 1:36 PM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction I don't really understand your question. On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the SEO issues in web standards? Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Keith Steinacher wrote: What I meant by 1 set fee was I'll get you top rankings on all search engines and fix all your woes for $99.99!! Charging by the page or per hour (as I do it) is more legitimate. Some projects you can't really charge by the page though. I have one client who's site has 600,000 pages or more. I'm not going to go through it page by page. At that point it becomes necessary to make the SEO of a site more dynamic. While anyone can learn how to do SEO from a book or an online class, it doesn't necessary mean that they can take your site (of any size) and make it number 1 for a canned fee. Anyone that tells you that is not to be trusted. On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 6:07 PM, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/4/08, *Keith Steinacher* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't pay much attention to anyone that says they can solve all of your site's problems for 1 set fee. why not? i charge by the page and do the seo myself. there's a free class at: http://www.gnc-web-creations.com/seo-optimization.htm dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
Hello Michael, Accessibility is far more important to SEO than most standards, affecting SEO directly, that is. Think of Googlebot as a blind user and you can see why I mention accessibility. I have gotten emails before, filled with promises of being number one on Google (but under what search terms wasn't specified). It's crap. Some of those spam blogs and send bulk emails. Many can't be found on searches themselves so what good they would do for me is highly suspect. I delete those emails. Legit or not I see it as spam. Natural, ethical SEO is best: 1) Good use of (page name first) titles. 2) Make sure your site is accessible (*standards required here). 3) Interesting, well-written content. Offer something. 4) Concise meta descriptions. 5) Give it time and your steady effort. Price for that advice: Free. Cheers. Mike Cherim http://green-beast.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
On 3/4/08, Keith Steinacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't pay much attention to anyone that says they can solve all of your site's problems for 1 set fee. why not? i charge by the page and do the seo myself. there's a free class at: http://www.gnc-web-creations.com/seo-optimization.htm dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
What I meant by 1 set fee was I'll get you top rankings on all search engines and fix all your woes for $99.99!! Charging by the page or per hour (as I do it) is more legitimate. Some projects you can't really charge by the page though. I have one client who's site has 600,000 pages or more. I'm not going to go through it page by page. At that point it becomes necessary to make the SEO of a site more dynamic. While anyone can learn how to do SEO from a book or an online class, it doesn't necessary mean that they can take your site (of any size) and make it number 1 for a canned fee. Anyone that tells you that is not to be trusted. On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 6:07 PM, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/4/08, Keith Steinacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't pay much attention to anyone that says they can solve all of your site's problems for 1 set fee. why not? i charge by the page and do the seo myself. there's a free class at: http://www.gnc-web-creations.com/seo-optimization.htm dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Keith Steinacher Chief Bottle-Washer *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
I think that they are useful, but I am biased because I am a SEO Consultant. However, we are not all created equal. I wrote a very short article on this that you can read here: http://www.mustainconsulting.com/docs/prs2007novdec.pdf Basically, you need to research a SEO professional, just like you would for a marketing firm your company planned to use. Do they have experience? Who are some of their other clients? Do their services seem gimmicky? I wouldn't pay much attention to anyone that says they can solve all of your site's problems for 1 set fee. Each site, depending on size and competition, may take more or less work to optimize. While meta data and content are important, there are other factors that are involved. You can take care of a number of your site's problems on your own. The real talent of a SEO professional is letting them do the complex analysis of your site, the competitors you have in your market and what other things you could be doing to boost your site's relevance with search engines. I hope this helps you in making your decision, but remember, choose wisely. Even asking for a free basic analysis, where they tell you what the problem are, not necessarily how to fix them. Then, if you are satisfied with the analysis, you can pay them to put together a report of the remedies. Keith On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 9:01 PM, Dannielle Chun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Weberati, First, apologies to the list if this discussion has been had before, I'm newish here. I'm interested in how you all feel about SEO experts? Me, I'm old fashion and tend to rely on meta tags to content ratios and link exchange. Am I being naive? Or are the following types of promises more valid than free tools like this one:- * http://www.submitexpress.com/analyzer/ * ... let me undertake an SEO health check of your site. Just a quick look at your site tells me immediately that it is not presently optimized for search engine performance. A professional SEO report will ensure you change the right things in the right way. The report will identify the best phrases to use to improve your organic ranking and get maximum free traffic. Using specialist Search Engine Optimisation tools I will identify the optimum keywords for your business. I will document where your site currently ranks in the top 100 results for each keyword and allocate a percentage difficulty to each of them and advise you (objectively) on which words to integrate into your copy. I will ascertain your current link strength/popularity and advise how you might improve that and provide detailed recommendations on HTML title elements, meta tags, navigation structure, use of Flash, correct code validation and much more. It is the best investment you can make before changing anything on your website. Thanks! Dannielle *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Keith Steinacher Chief Bottle-Washer *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
