Re: [wsjt-devel] Dsec control for WSJT-X

[Deisher, Michael]

BTW, I should add that such a scheme has the potential for bad side effects if 
widely adopted (which seems unlikely) and if the error is not zero mean.  It 
probably requires most stations to have accurate clocks.


From: Deisher, Michael [mailto:michael.deis...@intel.com]
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2019 1:35 PM
To: WSJT software development 
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Dsec control for WSJT-X

wsjtx seems to have all the information necessary to  “crowdsource” the time 
interval boundaries.  For a portable station without GPS or Internet that could 
really help.  If wsjtx published the dt values via IPC messages then it could 
be done outside wsjtx in a separate utility (i.e., figure out the mean boundary 
time and adjust the system clock to track it).  Seems like a nice little 
project.

73, Mike KK7ER

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Dsec control for WSJT-X

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

It's not just the computer clock though.  You can have different delays on 
Tx/Rx depending on your setup.
de Mike W9MDB

 

On Monday, May 6, 2019, 3:38:33 PM CDT, Deisher, Michael 
 wrote:  
 
 
wsjtx seems to have all the information necessary to  “crowdsource” the time 
interval boundaries.  For a portable station without GPS or Internet that could 
really help.  If wsjtx published the dt values via IPC messages then it could 
be done outside wsjtx in a separate utility (i.e., figure out the mean boundary 
time and adjust the system clock to track it).  Seems like a nice little 
project.
 
  
 
73, Mike KK7ER

  
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Dsec control for WSJT-X

[Deisher, Michael]

wsjtx seems to have all the information necessary to  “crowdsource” the time 
interval boundaries.  For a portable station without GPS or Internet that could 
really help.  If wsjtx published the dt values via IPC messages then it could 
be done outside wsjtx in a separate utility (i.e., figure out the mean boundary 
time and adjust the system clock to track it).  Seems like a nice little 
project.

73, Mike KK7ER

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Dsec control for WSJT-X

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

I did a little test and had WSJT-X offset my WAV file by 300ms.  This idea 
would allow custom correction of Dt values beyond just accurate time.  So audio 
delays could be allowed for.
I do believe this would be a very worthwhile addition to WSJT-X and may explain 
why people have been having problems decoding FT-4 (like me).
I was running PowerSDR and with all the buffer sizes and delays needed to 
prevent dropouts I was getting .6 and .7 Dt values.I've recently upgraded to 
Thetis where audio processing has improved so you see times here of around .3 
I found an example running FT4 just now where this picks up a decode for 
example since KK4HEG was 0.7 seconds off apparently.18 -12  0.1  563 +  CQ 
EA6XQ JM19                       ? a118 -11 -0.0  900 +  YO7CVL KS4OT EM83  
                     18  -1 -0.4 1941 +  CQ KK4HEG EM95                     
     Instead of the non-offset version18 -12 -0.2  570 +  CQ EA6XQ JM19     
                  ? a118 -11 -0.3  900 +  YO7CVL KS4OT EM83                 
      


The original 2.1.0-rc5 wav file(base) (QT-5.9) 
C:\Users\mike\AppData\Local\WSJT-X\save >\WSJT\wsjtx\bin\jt9 --ft8 -d 3 
190506_170345.wav
170345  -1  0.3  208 ~  K0CYA KM4UJI R+06170345   0  0.3  330 ~  UA3PAB KA5HET 
EM25170345  -8  0.2  483 ~  K4WDY W5GOL EM25170345  -3  0.5  608 ~  N9XHN W2GC 
FM03170345  -8  0.3  784 ~  K3HW KB6PR DM14170345 -12  0.4  843 ~  VE2FZP W2RHS 
FM29170345   2  0.4 1064 ~  AA6DY W8HFJ -15170345  -6  0.6 1121 ~  K7OAC N3TRF 
FM09170345 -13  0.3 1512 ~  CQ CQ W3CCB FN01170345 -12  0.4 1554 ~  W9MDB WO3H 
-12170345   4  0.5 1611 ~  CQ AH6FF EM64170345 -12  0.4 1687 ~  UA3PAB W4MMP 
FM19170345 -20  0.7 1738 ~  CQ KA1AQP FN42                        a1170345  -2  
0.5 2006 ~  M0HAQ K0BLT DN81170345 -17  0.4 2176 ~  CQ SP9KR JO90170345 -10  
0.4 2232 ~  F4ECA KB1EFS -15170345 -13  0.3 2490 ~  CQ DX KK5ZV EL29170345  -7  
0.3  607 ~  IK4LZH N3XKB DM65   0  18
With the 300ms offset done for the FT8 test with one line of code just before 
the wav file is written   
memmove((void*)data,(void*)[3600],sizeof(short)*samples-3600);  if 
(!wav.open (BWFFile::WriteOnly)


(base) (QT-5.9) C:\Users\mike\AppData\Local\WSJT-X\save >\WSJT\wsjtx\bin\jt9 
--ft8 -d 3 "..\..\WSJT-X - test\save\190506_170345.wav"170345  -1  0.1  208 ~  
K0CYA KM4UJI R+06170345   0 -0.0  330 ~  UA3PAB KA5HET EM25170345  -8 -0.1  483 
~  K4WDY W5GOL EM25170345  -3  0.2  608 ~  N9XHN W2GC FM03170345  -8 -0.0  784 
~  K3HW KB6PR DM14170345 -12  0.1  843 ~  VE2FZP W2RHS FM29170345   2  0.1 1064 
~  AA6DY W8HFJ -15170345  -6  0.3 1121 ~  K7OAC N3TRF FM09170345 -12 -0.0 1512 
~  CQ CQ W3CCB FN01170345 -12  0.1 1554 ~  W9MDB WO3H -12170345   5  0.2 1611 ~ 
 CQ AH6FF EM64170345 -12  0.1 1687 ~  UA3PAB W4MMP FM19170345 -20  0.4 1738 ~  
CQ KA1AQP FN42                        a1170345  -1  0.2 2006 ~  M0HAQ K0BLT 
DN81170345 -17  0.1 2176 ~  CQ SP9KR JO90170345 -10  0.1 2232 ~  F4ECA KB1EFS 
-15170345 -13  0.0 2490 ~  CQ DX KK5ZV EL29170345  -7  0.0  607 ~  IK4LZH N3XKB 
DM65   0  18
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Re: [wsjt-devel] S+P operation

[Paul Kube]

Joe --


> I think you'll get what you want (for contesting) if you check only
> these (top to bottom) on the Settings -> Colors tab:
>
> X  My Call in message
> X  New DXCC
> X  New Call on Band
>

Thanks, yes, that does it.


> No guarantees that we are maintaining our sanity!  Would you like to
> volunteer to organize and operate such a system?  :-)
>

Ah, probably not; too busy being retired :).

Sourceforge has its native bug ticket system
https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/documentation/Tickets/ and since you are
already hosting the project there, that might be the easiest way to go.

Personally I like Bugzilla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugzilla. Set it
up on one of your Princeton machines; it's pretty lightweight
https://www.bugzilla.org/. Or run it in Amazon's cloud
https://aws.amazon.com/marketplace/pp/B007I8OOJ0.

But anything will have startup costs and you might not find that worth it.

73, Paul K6PO
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Re: [wsjt-devel] FT4 mock contest

[David Tiller]

Joe,


Do you think rc6 for Mac users will be available by the mock contest date(s)?


Thanks!


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From: Joe Taylor 
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2019 10:45 AM
To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [wsjt-devel] FT4 mock contest

One-hour "practice contest" sessions will be held this week and next
week using the FT4 mode and the ARRL RTTY Roundup rules.

Thursday, May 9, -0100 UTC (Wednesday evening, May 8, NA time)
Tuesday,  May 14 -0100 UTC (Monday evening, May 13, NA time)

Dial frequency 7.090 (and higher, in 2 kHz increments, if too much QRM).
  Everyone works everyone.

To participate you must use WSJT-X 2.1.0-rc5.  Installation packages for
Windows and Linux can be found near the bottom of this web page:
https://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/wsjtx.html

Note that this Release Candidate ("RC5") is a beta-test version.  A full
release of WSJT-X 2.1 is targeted for release in July 2019.

Be sure to read "The FT4 Protocol for Digital Contesting." Links to this
document in ten languages are available on the WSJT-X web page:
http://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/wsjtx.html .  Also, be sure to
read the updated list of known issues and workarounds:
http://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/Reported_bugs.txt


IMPORTANT INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE MOCK CONTEST:

1. On the *Settings | Advanced* tab, check the *Special operating
activity* and *ARRL RTTY Roundup* options.  In the field labeled "Exch"
enter the 2- or 3-letter abbreviation for your state or province
(US/Canadian stations) or DX if you are not in the US or Canada.

2. Make sure that 7.090 appears in your drop-down frequency list for FT4
mode.  Navigate to *File | Settings | Frequencies*, right-click on the
frequencies table, select *Insert*, then *IARU Region = All*, *Mode =
FT4*, and enter *Frequency = 7.090*.

3. Go to *File | Open log directory* and rename your ADIF log
wsjt_log.adi to something like wsjtx_log.adi.bak, so as to start the
mock contest with an empty log.  Also select *File | Reset Cabrillo
log*.  Remember to restore your original ADIF log after the mock contest.

4. Go to *File | Reporting* and check *Log automatically (contesting
only)* and *Clear DX call and grid after logging*.

5. Go to *File | Settings | Colors* and check these boxes (reading top
to bottom):

X  My call in message
X  New DXCC
X  New Call on Band
X  CQ in message
X  Transmitted message

6. Do not use a compound or nonstandard callsign in this event.

Post your results and comments here so we can all learn from an actual
FT4 contest-like experience.

If you are not already subscribed, you may wish to join the email list
wsjt-devel:
https://sourceforge.net/p/wsjt/mailman
That list is the best way to communicate directly with the WSJT
Development Group.

 -- 73, Joe, K1JT (for the WSJT Development Group)


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Dsec control for WSJT-X

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

Seems to me what could be done is to memmove the WAV data in the decoder in 
perhaps 50mS increments adjustable by an up/down where down means move it 
earlier (i.e. decrease Dt value).  This way receiving stations just adjust to 
try and hit the target value of zero.  Transmit is a different problem but 
another offset could adjust the signal start offset.  Your receive Dt values 
help you set the Rx offset and hamspots.net can help you set the Tx offset.
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[wsjt-devel] FT4 mock contest

[Joe Taylor]

One-hour "practice contest" sessions will be held this week and next 
week using the FT4 mode and the ARRL RTTY Roundup rules.


Thursday, May 9, -0100 UTC (Wednesday evening, May 8, NA time)
Tuesday,  May 14 -0100 UTC (Monday evening, May 13, NA time)

Dial frequency 7.090 (and higher, in 2 kHz increments, if too much QRM). 
 Everyone works everyone.


To participate you must use WSJT-X 2.1.0-rc5.  Installation packages for 
Windows and Linux can be found near the bottom of this web page:

https://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/wsjtx.html

Note that this Release Candidate ("RC5") is a beta-test version.  A full 
release of WSJT-X 2.1 is targeted for release in July 2019.


Be sure to read "The FT4 Protocol for Digital Contesting." Links to this 
document in ten languages are available on the WSJT-X web page:
http://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/wsjtx.html .  Also, be sure to 
read the updated list of known issues and workarounds:

http://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/Reported_bugs.txt


IMPORTANT INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE MOCK CONTEST:

1. On the *Settings | Advanced* tab, check the *Special operating 
activity* and *ARRL RTTY Roundup* options.  In the field labeled "Exch" 
enter the 2- or 3-letter abbreviation for your state or province 
(US/Canadian stations) or DX if you are not in the US or Canada.


2. Make sure that 7.090 appears in your drop-down frequency list for FT4 
mode.  Navigate to *File | Settings | Frequencies*, right-click on the 
frequencies table, select *Insert*, then *IARU Region = All*, *Mode = 
FT4*, and enter *Frequency = 7.090*.


3. Go to *File | Open log directory* and rename your ADIF log 
wsjt_log.adi to something like wsjtx_log.adi.bak, so as to start the 
mock contest with an empty log.  Also select *File | Reset Cabrillo 
log*.  Remember to restore your original ADIF log after the mock contest.


4. Go to *File | Reporting* and check *Log automatically (contesting 
only)* and *Clear DX call and grid after logging*.


5. Go to *File | Settings | Colors* and check these boxes (reading top 
to bottom):


X  My call in message
X  New DXCC
X  New Call on Band
X  CQ in message
X  Transmitted message

6. Do not use a compound or nonstandard callsign in this event.

Post your results and comments here so we can all learn from an actual 
FT4 contest-like experience.


If you are not already subscribed, you may wish to join the email list 
wsjt-devel:

https://sourceforge.net/p/wsjt/mailman
That list is the best way to communicate directly with the WSJT 
Development Group.


-- 73, Joe, K1JT (for the WSJT Development Group)


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Dsec control for WSJT-X

[Bill Somerville]

On 06/05/2019 15:37, Mark Turner wrote:


A Dsec would be useful where time is perfectly well synchronised but 
the system incorporates a fixed and known delay, such as might exist 
on a remote station where the audio stream is decoded locally.


Regards, Mark


Mark,

that doesn't help much unless the station is operated receive only. Time 
corrections for local latency are different from time corrections for 
remote (as in DX) stations having their clock set wrong.


Either way Mike. W9MDB's, "Time Fudge" application can be used to 
achieve what you want except for correcting for local network latencies 
when transmitting.


73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Dsec control for WSJT-X

[Mark Turner via wsjt-devel]

A Dsec would be useful where time is perfectly well synchronised but the 
system incorporates a fixed and known delay, such as might exist on a 
remote station where the audio stream is decoded locally.


Regards, Mark

On 06/05/2019 12:36, Bill Somerville wrote:

On 06/05/2019 11:49, Jay Hainline wrote:


In the older WSJT 10 program, there is a control labeled Dsec where 
the user?s UTC clock reading can be adjusted to manually synchronize 
with your QSO partner?s computer. I wonder if this feature would be 
useful in WSJT-X to help with FT8 decodes if your attempted QSO 
partner?s computer clock appears to be off. It could be helpful if 
they are starting transmit too early. Might be something for the 
developers could look at.


73 Jay

Jay Hainline KA9CFD

Colchester, IL? EN40om


Hi Jay,

WSJT-X is an Open Source application, considered contributions are 
welcome but there are no guarantees of acceptance. Such a change is 
possible although quite complex given that time is read in several 
places and it would be disruptive of an already complex application to 
maintain a separate source of time consistently. TBH we would prefer 
that users take the relatively simple steps necessary to keep their PC 
time synchronized to UTC, within a few milliseconds, automatically. 
The new FT4 mode requires tighter control of time synchronization, 
currently ?0.5 S, so manual setting is not really sufficient.


73
Bill
G4WJS.


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Dsec control for WSJT-X

[Bill Frantz]

On 5/6/19 at 4:36 AM, g4...@classdesign.com (Bill Somerville) wrote:

Such a change is possible although quite complex given that 
time is read in several places and it would be disruptive of an 
already complex application to maintain a separate source of 
time consistently. TBH we would prefer that users take the 
relatively simple steps necessary to keep their PC time 
synchronized to UTC, within a few milliseconds, automatically.


When the station with the clock in serious error is a rare DX, I 
think what my son calls the "Wedding Time Rule" applies:


"The bride is always on time. When she arrives, set your watch 
to the start time specified on the invitation."


(Note that rare DX stations may have more problems with accurate 
time than people with good Internet connections.)


I had this problem with a DX station and never figured out how 
to manually set the time on my MacOS system to fix it. 
Fortunately, the DX corrected his clock and I managed to make a QSO.


I am very sympathetic with the structural problems in wsjt-x 
that make a centralized source of time difficult. I have worked 
on large software systems that "just grew" and fixing this kind 
of issue can be an amazing time sink.


73 Bill AE6JV

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Dsec control for WSJT-X

[Brian G3VGZ]

There is a program called "timefudge"  which achieves that manual
adjustment. I use it occasionally. No need for the developers to duplicate
its functionality.

"Jay Hainline"  wrote:

> OK Bill. It was just a thought and I knew the feature had been available
> before. Getting people to get their computer clocks accurate is like
> herding cats. Thanks and GL.
> 
>  
> 
> Jay KA9CFD
> 
>  
> 
> From: Bill Somerville  Sent: May 6, 2019 11:36 To:
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Dsec control
> for WSJT-X
> 
>  
> 
> On 06/05/2019 11:49, Jay Hainline wrote:
> 
> In the older WSJT 10 program, there is a control labeled Dsec where the
> user’s UTC clock reading can be adjusted to manually synchronize with your
> QSO partner’s computer. I wonder if this feature would be useful in WSJT-X
> to help with FT8 decodes if your attempted QSO partner’s computer clock
> appears to be off. It could be helpful if they are starting transmit too
> early. Might be something for the developers could look at.
> 
>  
> 
> 73 Jay
> 
>  
> 
> Jay Hainline KA9CFD
> 
> Colchester, IL  EN40om
> 
> Hi Jay,
> 
> WSJT-X is an Open Source application, considered contributions are welcome
> but there are no guarantees of acceptance. Such a change is possible
> although quite complex given that time is read in several places and it
> would be disruptive of an already complex application to maintain a
> separate source of time consistently. TBH we would prefer that users take
> the relatively simple steps necessary to keep their PC time synchronized
> to UTC, within a few milliseconds, automatically. The new FT4 mode
> requires tighter control of time synchronization, currently ±0.5 S, so
> manual setting is not really sufficient.
> 
> 73 Bill G4WJS.
> 
> 
> 


-- 
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Dsec control for WSJT-X

[Jay Hainline]

OK Bill. It was just a thought and I knew the feature had been available
before. Getting people to get their computer clocks accurate is like herding
cats. Thanks and GL.

 

Jay KA9CFD

 

From: Bill Somerville  
Sent: May 6, 2019 11:36
To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Dsec control for WSJT-X

 

On 06/05/2019 11:49, Jay Hainline wrote:

In the older WSJT 10 program, there is a control labeled Dsec where the
user’s UTC clock reading can be adjusted to manually synchronize with your
QSO partner’s computer. I wonder if this feature would be useful in WSJT-X
to help with FT8 decodes if your attempted QSO partner’s computer clock
appears to be off. It could be helpful if they are starting transmit too
early. Might be something for the developers could look at.

 

73 Jay

 

Jay Hainline KA9CFD

Colchester, IL  EN40om

Hi Jay,

WSJT-X is an Open Source application, considered contributions are welcome
but there are no guarantees of acceptance. Such a change is possible
although quite complex given that time is read in several places and it
would be disruptive of an already complex application to maintain a separate
source of time consistently. TBH we would prefer that users take the
relatively simple steps necessary to keep their PC time synchronized to UTC,
within a few milliseconds, automatically. The new FT4 mode requires tighter
control of time synchronization, currently ±0.5 S, so manual setting is not
really sufficient.

73
Bill
G4WJS.

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Dsec control for WSJT-X

[Bill Somerville]

On 06/05/2019 11:49, Jay Hainline wrote:


In the older WSJT 10 program, there is a control labeled Dsec where 
the user’s UTC clock reading can be adjusted to manually synchronize 
with your QSO partner’s computer. I wonder if this feature would be 
useful in WSJT-X to help with FT8 decodes if your attempted QSO 
partner’s computer clock appears to be off. It could be helpful if 
they are starting transmit too early. Might be something for the 
developers could look at.


73 Jay

Jay Hainline KA9CFD

Colchester, IL  EN40om


Hi Jay,

WSJT-X is an Open Source application, considered contributions are 
welcome but there are no guarantees of acceptance. Such a change is 
possible although quite complex given that time is read in several 
places and it would be disruptive of an already complex application to 
maintain a separate source of time consistently. TBH we would prefer 
that users take the relatively simple steps necessary to keep their PC 
time synchronized to UTC, within a few milliseconds, automatically. The 
new FT4 mode requires tighter control of time synchronization, currently 
±0.5 S, so manual setting is not really sufficient.


73
Bill
G4WJS.

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[wsjt-devel] Dsec control for WSJT-X

[Jay Hainline]

In the older WSJT 10 program, there is a control labeled Dsec where the
user's UTC clock reading can be adjusted to manually synchronize with your
QSO partner's computer. I wonder if this feature would be useful in WSJT-X
to help with FT8 decodes if your attempted QSO partner's computer clock
appears to be off. It could be helpful if they are starting transmit too
early. Might be something for the developers could look at.

 

73 Jay

 

Jay Hainline KA9CFD

Colchester, IL  EN40om

 

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