Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Nico Palermo]

Some things can be done more efficiently if they are "vectorized" but not
all the algorithms
can be easily vectorized with the current technology and maybe that chess
games belong
to this case, I'm not expert about them.

For what concerns our case, there's a lot of things that we can do in order
to make steps
that we could not afford in the past but that the technology we already own
in some way
now allows.
If we had incredibly fast computers we could simply decode a message voting
for the
most likely among all the possible messages that could have been
transmitted but this,
on actual computers, is still infeasible even with the quite short messages
we use on WSJTX.
So far, if we would get out the best decoding results given the available
processing
capabilities and assuming that we don't want to wait years to see if
something gets decoded,
the way we write the code and exploit some hardware, if available, matters
indeed.

Getting the best out of the codes used in WSJTX is not just a matter of
telecommunication theory.
We try to do something that industry likely would never do as it would be
not that convenient.
Anyway we aim to go beyond compromises and this requires quite an huge
processing power
that we can possibly exploit from the most modern machines.

None of us wants to put pressure on this aspect. I think that Bill's poll
was just aimed to
see how we could improve what was already done given the hardware that is
commonly used.

I think that the first goal that WSJTX developers address is still (and has
always been) that
of thinking and deploying something smart, solid and useful for the
community, not that of
embroidering funny solutions. Yet the problem of doing what we do in the
best way we
can, given all the world and the technology that revolves around us, still
persists despite
we are not explicitly called to cope with it.

BTW, I don't see any problem for EMErs. If you already do EME activity a
30% more CPU power
consumption (if it should be really required) is just a small fraction of
the power
used by the transmitter PA. Therefore even a single dB of coding gain would
easily translate to
a total energy saving.


73
Nico / IV3NWV


Il giorno mer 9 giu 2021 alle ore 19:23 Black Michael via wsjt-devel <
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> ha scritto:

> Is there some reasons to think we get a notable performance boost from AVX?
>
> First link I found is not impressivevery few benchmarks show much
> improvement and many show less and it's at a cost of 30% or so more CPU
> power consumption...fans will be screaming...looks like it mainly helps on
> decoding streams.
>
>
> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=rocket-lake-avx512=2
>
> Mike W9MDB
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Ray Rocker]

Bill,

I use this oldie w/o AVX for everyday WSJT-X.  I do use a newer PC for
contests though.

processor   : 0
vendor_id   : AuthenticAMD
cpu family  : 16
model: 4
model name   : AMD Phenom(tm) II X2 550 Processor
stepping: 2
cpu MHz : 800.000
cache size  : 512 KB

-- Ray WQ5L


On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 6:44 PM Bill Somerville  wrote:
>
> Hi all WSJT-X users,
...
> So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me
> know.


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Astronomincal Data Window

[Dennis Younker NE6I]

Hi Joe, 

That makes total sense. Thanks for the response.

--Dennis NE6I

-Original Message-
From: Joe Taylor  
Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 5:10 PM
To: WSJT software development 
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Astronomincal Data Window

Hi Dennis,

On 6/9/2021 7:59 PM, Dennis Younker NE6I wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> My apologies if this has been covered before. Is there a reason that 
> View, Astronomical Data has a grayed out "X" in the upper right 
> corner. The only way to close that window is to go back to View and
uncheck that item.
> 
> --Dennis NE6I

We wouldn't do it this way if there was not a good reason.

The astronomical data window controls important Doppler shift corrections
during EME operation.  We therefore want the window to be hard to close
accidentally.

 -- 73, Joe, K1JT


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Astronomincal Data Window

[Joe Taylor]

Hi Dennis,

On 6/9/2021 7:59 PM, Dennis Younker NE6I wrote:

Hello,

My apologies if this has been covered before. Is there a reason that View,
Astronomical Data has a grayed out "X" in the upper right corner. The only
way to close that window is to go back to View and uncheck that item.

--Dennis NE6I


We wouldn't do it this way if there was not a good reason.

The astronomical data window controls important Doppler shift 
corrections during EME operation.  We therefore want the window to be 
hard to close accidentally.


-- 73, Joe, K1JT


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[wsjt-devel] Astronomincal Data Window

[Dennis Younker NE6I]

Hello,

My apologies if this has been covered before. Is there a reason that View,
Astronomical Data has a grayed out "X" in the upper right corner. The only
way to close that window is to go back to View and uncheck that item. 

--Dennis NE6I



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[G8DQX (WSJT developers on SF)]

Bill,

1 portable machine in use for field & experimental work has an Intel 
B2020M non-AVX supporting CPU (another portable machine does offer AVX. 
For some purposes 2 machines are useful/necessary)


1 knockabout machine in near-term use has an AMD E450 non-AVX supporting 
CPU. (2 similar machines do support AVX)


HTH, 73,

Robin, G8DQX

On 09/06/2021 00:38, Bill Somerville wrote:
So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX** 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me 
know.


73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] WSJT-X Development and AVX

[Hasan N0AN]

Hi Jim,
This will tell ya what you need to know...and a LOT more, very nice small
footprint utility that all the pc builders have used

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Z3wG5IuuxMfHf538P3_Z4UT2R_kXbzuC/view?usp=sharing

>From my Google drive, it's safe. 73
N0AN
Hasan


On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 12:30 PM Jim Brown 
wrote:

> I strongly agree with George.
>
> FWIW, I found the link Bill provided in his initial post with
> development names for processor versions useless -- looking at my
> machines, they don't show those names.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On 6/9/2021 9:49 AM, George J Molnar wrote:
> > I’d definitely support development using AVX (and other) enhancements.
> > Definitely “advancing the radio art.” An older version, without ongoing
> > development, could always be posted for those with older machines. Such
> > older machines probably need to be phased out in many cases; this could
> > provide an incentive.
>
>
>
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Re: [wsjt-devel] WSJT-X Development and AVX

[David Spoelstra]

Another Linux way is to use the "lscpu" command.

An easy way to see the flags would be "lscpu | grep -i avx".

-David, N9KT



On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 2:53 PM Michael Pittaro  wrote:

> Intel provides tools to do the feature identification for you.  See:
>
> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/05607/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards.html
>
> The Intel processor identification utility provides the information
> directly.  (I believe this is windows only, but didn't dig for Linux
> versions.)
>
> The Intel® Processor Diagnostic Tool also provides that information, plus
> diagnostic tests.It used to be available for Linux, but a quick check
> shows it's currently windows only.
>
> Us Linux hacks can 'cat /proc/cpuinfo' to get this information, but it
> requires some interpretation of the flags field :-)
>
> 73's
> mike, kj6vcp
>
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Jeff Stillinger via wsjt-devel]

Hi Bill,

I know this is not exactly the suggestion that you may want to consider, 
but, I would feel remiss if I didn't mention it.  The development team 
has a difficult choice to make.   I can empathize with people vs. 
technology.


If you are trying to please the most people.  I would suggest another 
source branch.  One for those with AVX and one for those without AVX.  
You could get a little fancy and detect it during the configure portion 
of the build and make it invisible to the end user.   Each source build 
then is optimized for the builders CPU.


If you are looking to push the technology forward, then it would be 
using AVX and those with processors that don't support it will simply 
have to upgrade.  Being backwards compatible is nice to a degree, but 
going back 8-10 years is excessive.   We are talking Intel processors 
that are over 11 years old and AMD processors that are 8 years old.  
Bet nobody has a phone that is 11 years old. I would fully support and 
press for moving the technology forward.




On 6/8/21 6:38 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:

Hi all WSJT-X users,

we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take 
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU 
architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for 
older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is 
using such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a 
mine is better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or 
how many of you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this 
applies to MS Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about 
CPUs not operating systems.


The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all 
Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is 
also present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models 
(some late Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 
2013 to present.


Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support 
the AVX technology.


So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX** 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me 
know.


73
Bill
G4WJS.



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--
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States http://kb6ibb-15.ham-radio-op.net/Ham-Radio/



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being

[Chris Sullivan]

I have a Dell XPS9100 Circa 2012 which I've upgraded over the years with
SSD, new graphics card, additional HDD, PCI Serial Ports, USB3.0. It lacks
AVX instructions, which I found out when I tried to GPU-accelerate
TensorFlow. It is a lot slower than my work laptop.

73,
Chris VE3NRT



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Richard Shaw]

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 4:33 PM Alan  wrote:

> With 30% extra CPU power consumption those running on battery power might
> want to think twice about use of these extensions, and some on mains power
> might also not want to add additional thermal stress and/or electricity
> consumption, if it's drawn for any length of time?
>

The cooling for your processor should be designed to handle the maximum TDP
of the processor, if not, then you've got a much bigger problem. I would
make an exception for laptop processors since they have very limited
cooling but they should throttle anyway. Either case, it shouldn't be a
problem.

When there are test builds available I'll check if there's any
noticeable increase in power draw. I have a very nice UPS that gives me the
current draw in watts.

Thanks,
Richard
KF5OIM
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Alan]

With 30% extra CPU power consumption those running on battery power might 
want to think twice about use of these extensions, and some on mains power 
might also not want to add additional thermal stress and/or electricity 
consumption, if it's drawn for any length of time?



On the other hand if the extra power is drawn for only a very short time 
then it won't be that noticeable?



It obviously depends on what the extensions will be used for but if the 
overall power draw is likely to be significant I wonder if such an 
enhancement could/should then be a user choice, if practicable?



Alan G0TLK, sent from my mobile device
On 9 June 2021 19:07:06 Bill Somerville  wrote:

On 09/06/2021 18:22, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:

Is there some reasons to think we get a notable performance boost from AVX?


First link I found is not impressivevery few benchmarks show much 
improvement and many show less and it's at a cost of 30% or so more CPU 
power consumption...fans will be screaming...looks like it mainly helps on 
decoding streams.



https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=rocket-lake-avx512=2



Mike W9MDB

Mike,
the AVX instruction set adds vector operations that can do up to 8 float or 
4 double operations in parallel during a single CPU clock cycle, for some 
algorithms up to a factor of 8 throughput is possible. A 30% power 
consumption increase for something like a 4 fold speed increase of suitable 
algorithms should be considered rather than just quoting figures you have 
seen out of context.

73
Bill
G4WJS.
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Bill Somerville]

On 09/06/2021 21:15, Andrew Neumeier via wsjt-devel wrote:
Using a Athlon II 450 triple core.  No AVX support, according to what 
I have been able to learn about the processor specs. Seems that 
support may have started just after this cpu.


73,
Andy, ka2uqw


Hi Andy,

that's correct, it was launched in 2010 and AMD did not include AVX 
until about 2013.


73
Bill
G4WJS.

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[wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Andrew Neumeier via wsjt-devel]

Using a Athlon II 450 triple core.  No AVX support, according to what I have 
been able to learn about the processor specs. Seems that support may have 
started just after this cpu.  
73,Andy, ka2uqw
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Michael Pittaro]

[reposting to the original thread; didn't realize it had split]

Intel provides tools to do the feature identification for you.  See:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/05607/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards.html

The Intel processor identification utility provides the information
directly.  (I believe this is windows only, but didn't dig for Linux
versions.)

The Intel® Processor Diagnostic Tool also provides that information, plus
diagnostic tests.It used to be available for Linux, but a quick check
shows it's currently windows only.

Us Linux hacks can 'cat /proc/cpuinfo' to get this information, but it
requires some interpretation of the flags field :-)

73's
mike, kj6vcp
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Re: [wsjt-devel] WSJT-X Development and AVX

[Michael Pittaro]

Intel provides tools to do the feature identification for you.  See:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/05607/boards-and-kits/desktop-boards.html

The Intel processor identification utility provides the information
directly.  (I believe this is windows only, but didn't dig for Linux
versions.)

The Intel® Processor Diagnostic Tool also provides that information, plus
diagnostic tests.It used to be available for Linux, but a quick check
shows it's currently windows only.

Us Linux hacks can 'cat /proc/cpuinfo' to get this information, but it
requires some interpretation of the flags field :-)

73's
mike, kj6vcp
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Neil Zampella]

Bill,

the CPU-Z program shows that I'm running an AMD Ryzen 4 Mobile 2500U
with 4 cores, speed of 1596.76MHz, and it includes instructions for AVX,
and AVX2.

Hope this helps.

Neil, KN3ILZ



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Re: [wsjt-devel] A general comment re older computers, CPUs etc

[Serge Szpilfogel]

Thanks Wolfgang for your help my CPU is AMD Phenom(tm) II X6 1100T Processor
does this mean 6 cores?
Thank you
Serge VE1KG

-Original Message-
From: Wolfgang  
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2021 17:28
To: WSJT software development 
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] A general comment re older computers, CPUs etc

Hello Serge,

Find with Google and download the free utility 'CPU-Z'

73's de OE1MWW
Wolfgang

Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 6:45:39 PM, you wrote:

> Mark here I run a Window7 64bit computer. How do I find the number of 
> cores I have?? Mine is a AMD CPU whatever that is??
> Thanks for your help
> Serge VE1KG


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Mike Goodey]

Bill

I'm running an Intel Core i7 860 - it would appear that this DOES NOT support 
AVX.

Mike G0GJV

> Hi all WSJT-X users,
> 
> we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take 
> advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU 
> architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for 
> older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is using 
> such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a mine is 
> better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or how many of 
> you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this applies to MS 
> Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about CPUs not 
> operating systems.
> 
> The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all 
> Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also 
> present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late 
> Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.
> 
> Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support the 
> AVX technology.
> 
> So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX** 
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me 
> know.
> 
> 73
> Bill
> G4WJS.





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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Bill Somerville]

On 09/06/2021 18:22, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:
Is there some reasons to think we get a notable performance boost from 
AVX?


First link I found is not impressivevery few benchmarks show much 
improvement and many show less and it's at a cost of 30% or so more 
CPU power consumption...fans will be screaming...looks like it mainly 
helps on decoding streams.


https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=rocket-lake-avx512=2 



Mike W9MDB


Mike,

the AVX instruction set adds vector operations that can do up to 8 float 
or 4 double operations in parallel during a single CPU clock cycle, for 
some algorithms up to a factor of 8 throughput is possible. A 30% power 
consumption increase for something like a 4 fold speed increase of 
suitable algorithms should be considered rather than just quoting 
figures you have seen out of context.


73
Bill
G4WJS.

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Re: [wsjt-devel] WSJT-X Development and AVX

[Bill Somerville]

Hi Jim,

the generic names server to show roughly when features like AVX were 
introduced but specific models may or may not have support since the CPU 
manufacturers support a range of price, performance, and power 
consumption points. You must either use a tool that reports the 
capabilities or simply find your CPU designation and look it upon line. 
For MS Windows the System page shows the CPU designation (Windows+X then 
select System).


73
Bill
G4WJS.

On 09/06/2021 18:29, Jim Brown wrote:

I strongly agree with George.

FWIW, I found the link Bill provided in his initial post with 
development names for processor versions useless -- looking at my 
machines, they don't show those names.


73, Jim K9YC

On 6/9/2021 9:49 AM, George J Molnar wrote:
I’d definitely support development using AVX (and other) 
enhancements. Definitely “advancing the radio art.” An older version, 
without ongoing development, could always be posted for those with 
older machines. Such older machines probably need to be phased out in 
many cases; this could provide an incentive. 



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

Those are a lot better
Do we have some benchmarks for WSJT-X decoding?
Thanks
Mike W9MDB

 

On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 12:42:08 PM CDT, Richard Shaw 
 wrote:  
 
 On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 12:27 PM Black Michael via wsjt-devel 
 wrote:

Is there some reasons to think we get a notable performance boost from AVX?

I can't say for WSJTX, but for the 700C FreeDV mode, it's the difference 
between slower and/or ARM devices being usable or not (mainly for encoding).  
You may find the multiple benchmarks of interest.
https://github.com/drowe67/LPCNet/pull/25

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Richard Shaw]

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 12:27 PM Black Michael via wsjt-devel <
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> Is there some reasons to think we get a notable performance boost from AVX?
>

I can't say for WSJTX, but for the 700C FreeDV mode, it's the difference
between slower and/or ARM devices being usable or not (mainly for
encoding).

You may find the multiple benchmarks of interest.

https://github.com/drowe67/LPCNet/pull/25

Thanks,
Richard
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Re: [wsjt-devel] WSJT-X Development and AVX

[Jim Brown]

I strongly agree with George.

FWIW, I found the link Bill provided in his initial post with 
development names for processor versions useless -- looking at my 
machines, they don't show those names.


73, Jim K9YC

On 6/9/2021 9:49 AM, George J Molnar wrote:
I’d definitely support development using AVX (and other) enhancements. 
Definitely “advancing the radio art.” An older version, without ongoing 
development, could always be posted for those with older machines. Such 
older machines probably need to be phased out in many cases; this could 
provide an incentive.




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Re: [wsjt-devel] A general comment re older computers, CPUs etc

[Wolfgang]

Title: Re: [wsjt-devel] A general comment re older computers, CPUs etc


Hello Serge,

Find with Google and download the free utility 'CPU-Z'

73's de OE1MWW
Wolfgang

Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 6:45:39 PM, you wrote:

> Mark here I run a Window7 64bit computer. How do I find the number
> of cores I have?? Mine is a AMD CPU whatever that is??
> Thanks for your help
> Serge VE1KG


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

Is there some reasons to think we get a notable performance boost from AVX?
First link I found is not impressivevery few benchmarks show much 
improvement and many show less and it's at a cost of 30% or so more CPU power 
consumption...fans will be screaming...looks like it mainly helps on decoding 
streams.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=rocket-lake-avx512=2

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Re: [wsjt-devel] A general comment re older computers, CPUs etc

[Serge Szpilfogel]

Mark here I run a Window7 64bit computer. How do I find the number of cores I 
have?? Mine is a AMD CPU whatever that is??
Thanks for your help
Serge VE1KG

-Original Message-
From: Mark Spencer  
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2021 15:41
To: WSJT software development 
Subject: [wsjt-devel] A general comment re older computers, CPUs etc

Hi.  To somewhat echo a comment made by Roger W3SZ, if a new version of WSJT-X 
that utilized AVX provided significant performance enhancements (especially for 
MSK144) that would likely prompt me to use a faster computer while roving.  At 
this point if a computer will run (with a reasonable CPU load) MSK144 with deep 
search enabled with an FTol of 200 Hz I am inclined to consider it to be good 
enough for my purposes.

Thanks again
Mark S
VE7AFZ



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Serge Szpilfogel]

Hi Roger hope you are well!! Here I am running Window7  64Bit how can I find 
the CPU details which shows how many cores I know it is an AMD CPU whatever 
that is.
Thank you Roger
Serge VE1KG

-Original Message-
From: Roger Rehr W3SZ  
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2021 14:48
To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for 
WSJT-X

Hi Bill,

I am still using four Core 2 Duo E8500 CPU-computers (Q1 2008) on which I run 
WSJT-X.  They don't support AVX, of course.

They are old but since they have up until now been (barely/marginally) OK in 
terms of speed and CPU utilization even with Windows 10 I haven't replaced them 
before now.  All each of them does is run an SDR program, WSJT-X, and 
Dimension-4.

If WSJT-X added performance enhancements that would only work with a newer CPU, 
that would probably push me to upgrade them.  I had been considering doing that 
anyway, as they have slowed enough with Windows
10 and each of its major updates that I suspect they won't be "OK" for my 
purposes for much longer, as each major Windows update slows them further.

So if I need to get new computers to get the most out of a future version of 
WSJT-X, I will thank you for pushing me to do what I should have already done 
by now.  From my perspective, I would say don't spend any time just to keep my 
ancient Core 2 Duos running with WSJT-X. Getting 13 years out of a 
CPU/motherboard is plenty :)

Thanks for polling the group on this and for all that you do, and 73,

Roger
W3SZ

On 6/8/2021 07:38 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:
> Hi all WSJT-X users,
>
> we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take 
> advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU 
> architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for 
> older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is 
> using such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a 
> mine is better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or 
> how many of you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this 
> applies to MS Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about 
> CPUs not operating systems.
>
> The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all 
> Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is 
> also present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models 
> (some late Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa
> 2013 to present.
>
> Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support 
> the AVX technology.
>
> So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me 
> know.
>
> 73
> Bill
> G4WJS.
>
>
>
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[wsjt-devel] WSJT-X Development and AVX

[George J Molnar]

I’d definitely support development using AVX (and other) enhancements. 
Definitely “advancing the radio art.” An older version, without ongoing 
development, could always be posted for those with older machines. Such older 
machines probably need to be phased out in many cases; this could provide an 
incentive. 

I’m running with a Mac M1, and everything is very smooth right now.

The extra software capabilities sound promising.

George J Molnar
College Park, Maryland
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[wsjt-devel] A general comment re older computers, CPUs etc

[Mark Spencer]

Hi.  To somewhat echo a comment made by Roger W3SZ, if a new version of
WSJT-X that utilized AVX provided significant performance enhancements
(especially for MSK144) that would likely prompt me to use a faster
computer while roving.  At this point if a computer will run (with a
reasonable CPU load) MSK144 with deep search enabled with an FTol of 200 Hz
I am inclined to consider it to be good enough for my purposes.

Thanks again
Mark S
VE7AFZ
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[alawler mudhawk . com]

 HI Bill,

  In terms of basic strategy,  I've moved away from the "One big complex 
computer does everything" model towards a bunch of standalone Linux 
"appliances" that do a small number of tasks.

  My JT machines are up 24x7.   I'm also partially off grid (Via a homebrew 
solar setup), so night-time power consumption is a factor, although not a deal 
breaker.)

  For the JT modes,  I run:

 Primary Station:  Atomic Pi  (Atom Quad Core processor with 2gb  running 
Ubuntu (*)  
https://www.amazon.com/Atomic-Pi-High-Speed-Peripheral/dp/B07N298F2B/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1=atomic+pi=1623237717=8-4

I prefer this over raspberry pi due to the huge heatsink which allows passive 
cooling.

  For 85% of my operations, this is fine, but on busy bands,  it sometimes 
takes more than 15 seconds to decode a 15 second interval, which is a path to 
ruin... I've been chased off 20 meters a few times due to being unable to 
decode fast enough.   (I stubbornly run deep decoding  though so I don't miss 
stuff.)

*I know you didn't ask about OS,  but this flavor of ubuntu may not upgrade 
well.   (I already hit a snag building the new version due to libboost etc. and 
may need to either rebuild on a new distro, or abandon this configuration at 
some point.


 Secondary:   I also have 2 4gb Raspberry PI 4's running SDR ->GQRX/wsjtx that 
continuously listen on wspr.


--al
WB1BQE

From: Bill Somerville 
Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 11:38 PM
To: WSJT software development 
Subject: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for 
WSJT-X

Hi all WSJT-X users,

we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU
architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for
older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is using
such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a mine is
better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or how many of
you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this applies to MS
Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about CPUs not
operating systems.

The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all
Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also
present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late
Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.

Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support the
AVX technology.

So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me
know.

73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[jarmo]

Wed, 9 Jun 2021 06:48:05 -0700
Doug W  kirjoitti:

> No AVX for me.  I'm running an old Intel core i7-860 (Lynnfield
> architecture) from 2009.
> Thank you for taking the time to check.

I use i7-3770k and it supports
 Intel® SSE4.1, Intel® SSE4.2, Intel® AVX

Jarmo, oh1mrr


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Roger Rehr W3SZ]

Hi Bill,

I am still using four Core 2 Duo E8500 CPU-computers (Q1 2008) on which 
I run WSJT-X.  They don't support AVX, of course.


They are old but since they have up until now been (barely/marginally) 
OK in terms of speed and CPU utilization even with Windows 10 I haven't 
replaced them before now.  All each of them does is run an SDR program, 
WSJT-X, and Dimension-4.


If WSJT-X added performance enhancements that would only work with a 
newer CPU, that would probably push me to upgrade them.  I had been 
considering doing that anyway, as they have slowed enough with Windows 
10 and each of its major updates that I suspect they won't be "OK" for 
my purposes for much longer, as each major Windows update slows them 
further.


So if I need to get new computers to get the most out of a future 
version of WSJT-X, I will thank you for pushing me to do what I should 
have already done by now.  From my perspective, I would say don't spend 
any time just to keep my ancient Core 2 Duos running with WSJT-X.  
Getting 13 years out of a CPU/motherboard is plenty :)


Thanks for polling the group on this and for all that you do, and 73,

Roger
W3SZ

On 6/8/2021 07:38 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:

Hi all WSJT-X users,

we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take 
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU 
architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for 
older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is 
using such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a 
mine is better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or 
how many of you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this 
applies to MS Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about 
CPUs not operating systems.


The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all 
Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is 
also present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models 
(some late Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 
2013 to present.


Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support 
the AVX technology.


So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX** 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me 
know.


73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Mark Spencer]

Also as far as I can tell the Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU in my Panasonic
Tough book does not support AVX.

73
Mark S
VE7AFZ
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Mark Spencer]

Hi:

The oldest PC I still routinely run WSJT-X with has a CPU with the
following specs (from the control panel systems tab)

Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU P9300@2.26Ghz 2.27 Ghz
64 bit Operating System

The PC in question is a Panasonic Tough book that I use during portable use
and roving.

Thanks for all your efforts with WSJT-X

73
Mark S
VE7AFZ
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Doug W]

No AVX for me.  I'm running an old Intel core i7-860 (Lynnfield
architecture) from 2009.
Thank you for taking the time to check.

On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 4:44 PM Bill Somerville 
wrote:

> Hi all WSJT-X users,
>
> we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take
> advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU
> architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for
> older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is using
> such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a mine is
> better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or how many of
> you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this applies to MS
> Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about CPUs not
> operating systems.
>
> The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all
> Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also
> present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late
> Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.
>
> Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support the
> AVX technology.
>
> So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me
> know.
>
> 73
> Bill
> G4WJS.
>
>
>
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Re: [wsjt-devel] built wsjtx 2.4.0 and wsjtx 2.5.0-rc1 with IC7300

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

Can you compile hamlib?
I'm going to be making a patch to fix this...
Mike

 

On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 05:25:39 AM CDT, Saku  wrote:  
 
  
Hi MIke!
 
 
libhamlib.so.4 => /lib64/libhamlib.so.4 (0x7f5546c73000)
 
lrwxrwxrwx. 1 root root 18 16. 4. 16:44 /lib64/libhamlib.so.4 -> 
libhamlib.so.4.0.2
 
 
 
Except cqrlog that does not use shared library. 
 It just telnet (legacy) short commands to localhost:4532 and expects return 
messages to be legacy format.
 
So it should work with any version that understands and replies in short form 
as it "has always been"
 

 
 -- 
Saku
OH1KH Black Michael via wsjt-devel kirjoitti 8.6.2021 klo 15.53:
  
 
  All those programs will use the system libhamlib.so shared library. 
  If you do ldd /usr/bin/fldigi | grep ham ldd /usr/bin/qsstv | grep ham ldd 
[path_to_cqrlog] | grep ham 
  And see what library it's pointing to. 
  Then, if you install the latest hamlib to replace libhamlib.so they should 
all work with the --vfo argument. 
  Mike W9MDB 
   

  
  On Tuesday, June 8, 2021, 07:05:01 AM CDT, Marco Calistri 
 wrote:  
  
 Il 08/06/21 03:23, Saku ha scritto:
   
 Bill Somerville kirjoitti 7.6.2021 klo 20.36:
  

 Hi Saku, 
 
 the WSJT-X v2.5.0 RC1 RPM package for Fedora targets Fedora 34, which is why 
you are seeing dependency conflicts while attempting to install on Fedora 33. 
 
 Try starting rigctld with a --vfo argument. 
 
 73 
 Bill 
 G4WJS. 
 
 
 
Hi Bill!
 Thanks for reply!
 
 
WSJT Home page says:

   - Version 2.5.0-rc1
   
   - Debian, Ubuntu 20.04 LTS, ... (64-bit):   wsjtx_2.5.0-rc1_amd64.deb
   - Fedora 33, RedHat, ... (64-bit):      wsjtx-2.5.0-rc1.x86_64.rpm
 
Maybe typo from copying previous texts (from 2.4.0) to 2.5.0rc1?
 
--
 
 
Using "--vfo" parameter with rigctld started from boot time script makes wsjtx 
2.5.0rc1 to work. Assume also 2.4.0 (self compiled) to work.
 But as side effect wsjtx 2.3.1, cqrlog, fldigi and qsstv stop working then.  
Rigctld returns something weird that they can not handle.
 
For wsjtx 2.3.1 it "turns red" and says "OOB" and reports rigcontrol error
 For cqrlog it shows rig frequency ok, but TRXControl can not change bands and 
modes.
 For fldigi it shows initial frequency but stuck up for long times and does not 
change mode or frequency
 For Qsstv it reports at start:
 

 
When change frequency:
 
 

 
And frequency does not change, although it shows current frequency ok, like 
cqrlog.
 
 
All these programs are configured to use rig "Net Hamlib rigctld" (model #2) 
and connect via loclhost:4532 to previously started (from boot up script) 
rigctld that communicates then with IC7300 via /dev/ttyUSB0
 
 
 
 
This parameter "--vfo" can not be used. It seems there is something that makes 
rigctld reply with way that is not backward compatible.
 
No good !
 -- 
Saku
OH1KH

 
 
  Hi Saku!
 
 I'm "happy" you're facing this kind of error for two reasons:
 
 1) You are a development contributor of CQRLOG which I also use as logging 
program to start WSJT-X. Then maybe you could discover a solution.
 
 2) I faced similarly same issues with my YAESU FT-100 if I want to use the 
hamlib netctl option.
 
 In that case I notice the same weird VFO A/B switching occurring on different 
bands and sometime (depending on settings parameters) also the "OOB" error.
 
 In order be able to use WSJT-X, I need to set the radio setting to my radio 
model: FT-100, I can't use anymore (since some of the most recent releases of 
WSJT-X and hamlib) the hamlib rigctl option in WSJT-X.
 
 ---
 73 de Marco, PY1ZRJ (former IK5BCU)
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Hasan N0AN]

If you need to know the Code Name of your processor, you can download and
install this (from my Google Drive)

CPU-Z

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Z3wG5IuuxMfHf538P3_Z4UT2R_kXbzuC/view?usp=sharing

Download and install, it will show the "Name" that Bill refers to on the
2nd line of the main cpu page.

73, N0AN
Hasan


On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 7:39 AM Hasan N0AN  wrote:

> Plainly, in Bill's message is this:
>
>  *In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for*
>
> *older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is
> usingsuch older processors.*
>
> No where does Bill say they are going to leave anyone behind.
>
> He was asking for one simple thing, so they could maintain backward
> compatibility.
>
> *If your computer doesn't support the new instructions set, let me know.*
>
> At no point did Bill say people with older computers were going to be
> obsolesced.
>
> 73, N0AN
> Hasan
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 7:20 AM Doug Bates  wrote:
>
>> One more old retired Amateur with older computing hardware. Not likely to
>> be upgraded any time soon on a limited retirement budget. Please keep
>> backward compatibility as long as possible.
>> 73 de KV4ZY
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 6:11 AM Bill Somerville 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/06/2021 09:37, Jim Brown wrote:
>>>
>>> On 6/8/2021 4:38 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:
>>>
>>> we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take
>>> advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU architectures.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> I have a half dozen Thinkpads of various vintages, most running i7
>>> processors, two running i5s. At least half were purchased as refurbs for
>>> less than $500. Machines like this are widely available in the States, so
>>> that on this side of the pond, hardware should be no limitation for any ham
>>> willing to spend a modest amount for a computer. In the case of one machine
>>> (the one in my shack, about 5 years old purchased new), I needed to add
>>> some RAM.
>>>
>>> I bought my current shack computer new 5-7 years ago, an i7 Thinkpad
>>> with not enough RAM for $760. I've since added 8 GB and an SSD. It has no
>>> problem with WSJT-X, nor with SO2R RTTY contesting -- two radios, each with
>>> two RTTY decoders, logging software, and  browsers, all running
>>> simultaneously. A comparable machine could probably be bought used for
>>> about $500.
>>>
>>> I think the real obstacle is ignorance on the part of many hams as to
>>> what's available at moderate cost. I would encourage your ongoing
>>> development, along with an education campaign about hardware.
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>>
>>> Jim,
>>>
>>> it would be helpful if you take the time to review the CPU specs of each
>>> of your machines that run WSJT-X (or MAP65) and determine if they support
>>> the AVX instruction set. With MS Windows this can be done by looking at the
>>> System panel (Windows+X then select System), find the CPU model (it is in
>>> the middle of the page) and look it up on the manufacture's web site. For
>>> example I might do an internet search for "Intel Core i7-3630QM specs" and
>>> go to the ark.intel.com link at the top of that search
>>> https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/71459/intel-core-i7-3630qm-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-40-ghz.html
>>> . On that page under "Advanced Technologies" I find AVX, you may also see
>>> AVX2 or even one of the AVX512 versions, all of those include AVX support.
>>> Let me know if any of your WSJT-X PCs do not support AVX.
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Bill
>>> G4WJS.
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Hasan N0AN]

Plainly, in Bill's message is this:

 *In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for*

*older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is
usingsuch older processors.*

No where does Bill say they are going to leave anyone behind.

He was asking for one simple thing, so they could maintain backward
compatibility.

*If your computer doesn't support the new instructions set, let me know.*

At no point did Bill say people with older computers were going to be
obsolesced.

73, N0AN
Hasan


On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 7:20 AM Doug Bates  wrote:

> One more old retired Amateur with older computing hardware. Not likely to
> be upgraded any time soon on a limited retirement budget. Please keep
> backward compatibility as long as possible.
> 73 de KV4ZY
>
> On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 6:11 AM Bill Somerville 
> wrote:
>
>> On 09/06/2021 09:37, Jim Brown wrote:
>>
>> On 6/8/2021 4:38 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:
>>
>> we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take
>> advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU architectures.
>>
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> I have a half dozen Thinkpads of various vintages, most running i7
>> processors, two running i5s. At least half were purchased as refurbs for
>> less than $500. Machines like this are widely available in the States, so
>> that on this side of the pond, hardware should be no limitation for any ham
>> willing to spend a modest amount for a computer. In the case of one machine
>> (the one in my shack, about 5 years old purchased new), I needed to add
>> some RAM.
>>
>> I bought my current shack computer new 5-7 years ago, an i7 Thinkpad with
>> not enough RAM for $760. I've since added 8 GB and an SSD. It has no
>> problem with WSJT-X, nor with SO2R RTTY contesting -- two radios, each with
>> two RTTY decoders, logging software, and  browsers, all running
>> simultaneously. A comparable machine could probably be bought used for
>> about $500.
>>
>> I think the real obstacle is ignorance on the part of many hams as to
>> what's available at moderate cost. I would encourage your ongoing
>> development, along with an education campaign about hardware.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>> Jim,
>>
>> it would be helpful if you take the time to review the CPU specs of each
>> of your machines that run WSJT-X (or MAP65) and determine if they support
>> the AVX instruction set. With MS Windows this can be done by looking at the
>> System panel (Windows+X then select System), find the CPU model (it is in
>> the middle of the page) and look it up on the manufacture's web site. For
>> example I might do an internet search for "Intel Core i7-3630QM specs" and
>> go to the ark.intel.com link at the top of that search
>> https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/71459/intel-core-i7-3630qm-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-40-ghz.html
>> . On that page under "Advanced Technologies" I find AVX, you may also see
>> AVX2 or even one of the AVX512 versions, all of those include AVX support.
>> Let me know if any of your WSJT-X PCs do not support AVX.
>>
>> 73
>> Bill
>> G4WJS.
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Doug Bates]

One more old retired Amateur with older computing hardware. Not likely to
be upgraded any time soon on a limited retirement budget. Please keep
backward compatibility as long as possible.
73 de KV4ZY

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 6:11 AM Bill Somerville 
wrote:

> On 09/06/2021 09:37, Jim Brown wrote:
>
> On 6/8/2021 4:38 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:
>
> we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take advantage
> of some parallel processing features of modern CPU architectures.
>
>
> Bill,
>
> I have a half dozen Thinkpads of various vintages, most running i7
> processors, two running i5s. At least half were purchased as refurbs for
> less than $500. Machines like this are widely available in the States, so
> that on this side of the pond, hardware should be no limitation for any ham
> willing to spend a modest amount for a computer. In the case of one machine
> (the one in my shack, about 5 years old purchased new), I needed to add
> some RAM.
>
> I bought my current shack computer new 5-7 years ago, an i7 Thinkpad with
> not enough RAM for $760. I've since added 8 GB and an SSD. It has no
> problem with WSJT-X, nor with SO2R RTTY contesting -- two radios, each with
> two RTTY decoders, logging software, and  browsers, all running
> simultaneously. A comparable machine could probably be bought used for
> about $500.
>
> I think the real obstacle is ignorance on the part of many hams as to
> what's available at moderate cost. I would encourage your ongoing
> development, along with an education campaign about hardware.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> Jim,
>
> it would be helpful if you take the time to review the CPU specs of each
> of your machines that run WSJT-X (or MAP65) and determine if they support
> the AVX instruction set. With MS Windows this can be done by looking at the
> System panel (Windows+X then select System), find the CPU model (it is in
> the middle of the page) and look it up on the manufacture's web site. For
> example I might do an internet search for "Intel Core i7-3630QM specs" and
> go to the ark.intel.com link at the top of that search
> https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/71459/intel-core-i7-3630qm-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-40-ghz.html
> . On that page under "Advanced Technologies" I find AVX, you may also see
> AVX2 or even one of the AVX512 versions, all of those include AVX support.
> Let me know if any of your WSJT-X PCs do not support AVX.
>
> 73
> Bill
> G4WJS.
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[g3vnc]

On 09/06/2021 00:38, Bill Somerville wrote:
all I need to know is who or how many of you are using the older CPU 
architectures


Hello Bill

My radio PC uses an Intel Xeon 5450.  It does not support AVX.

73
Nick
G3VNC



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Reino Talarmo]

Hi Bill,
One of my older Lenovo X201 series does not support AVX (i5-520M). Newer
ones do support (but not AVX2).
73, Reino OH3mA

PS. i3-370M that was mentioned seems not to support, but i7-2600 on the same
page does.


-Alkuperäinen viesti-
Lähettäjä: Bill Somerville [mailto:g4...@classdesign.com] 
Lähetetty: 09 June 2021 02:38
Vastaanottaja: WSJT software development 
Aihe: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for
WSJT-X

Hi all WSJT-X users,

we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take advantage
of some parallel processing features of modern CPU architectures. In order
to gauge how much backwards compatibility for older CPUs we will have to
implement it would help to know who is using such older processors. Please
don't turn this thread in to a mine is better than yours conversation, all I
need to know is who or how many of you are using the older CPU
architectures. Note that this applies to MS Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel
macOS users, it is about CPUs not operating systems.

The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all Intel
CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also present on
AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late Athlon-II
CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.

Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support the AVX
technology.

So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me know.

73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[DG2YCB, Uwe]

Hi Bill,

My notebook has a "Genuine Intel(R) CPU U7300" CPU (=Intel Core2 Duo U7300)
which as far as I know does not support AVX. 
On my PCs, two out of three CPUs do support AVX (Intel i5-6600 and AMD
A8-5600), one does not (Intel Pentium 4). One very old notebook does not
support AVX either (Intel Pentium I).

73 de DG2YCB,
Uwe

German Amateur Radio Station DG2YCB
Dr. Uwe Risse
eMail: dg2...@gmx.de
Info: www.qrz.com/db/DG2YCB

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Bill Somerville [mailto:g4...@classdesign.com] 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 9. Juni 2021 01:38
An: WSJT software development
Betreff: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for
WSJT-X

Hi all WSJT-X users,

we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take 
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU 
architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for 
older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is using 
such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a mine is 
better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or how many of 
you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this applies to MS 
Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about CPUs not 
operating systems.

The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all 
Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also 
present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late 
Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.

Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support the 
AVX technology.

So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX** 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me 
know.

73
Bill
G4WJS.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Marco Calistri]

  
Il 08/06/21 20:38, Bill Somerville ha
  scritto:

Hi
  all WSJT-X users,
  
  
  we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take
  advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU
  architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility
  for older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who
  is using such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in
  to a mine is better than yours conversation, all I need to know is
  who or how many of you are using the older CPU architectures. Note
  that this applies to MS Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS
  users, it is about CPUs not operating systems.
  
  
  The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on
  all Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present),
  it is also present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU
  models (some late Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including
  Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.
  
  
  Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not
  support the AVX technology.
  
  
  So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then
  let me know.
  
  
  73
  
  Bill
  
  G4WJS.
  
  
  
  
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Hi Bill,

My CPU is this and at least if I'm not wrong, it supports AVX code:

Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz (family: 0x6, model: 0x2a, stepping: 0x7)
x86/fpu: Supporting XSAVE feature 0x004: 'AVX registers'
AVX version of gcm_enc/dec engaged.


---
  73 de Marco, PY1ZRJ (former IK5BCU)
  
  

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Bill Somerville]

On 09/06/2021 09:37, Jim Brown wrote:

On 6/8/2021 4:38 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:
we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take 
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU 
architectures.


Bill,

I have a half dozen Thinkpads of various vintages, most running i7 
processors, two running i5s. At least half were purchased as refurbs 
for less than $500. Machines like this are widely available in the 
States, so that on this side of the pond, hardware should be no 
limitation for any ham willing to spend a modest amount for a 
computer. In the case of one machine (the one in my shack, about 5 
years old purchased new), I needed to add some RAM.


I bought my current shack computer new 5-7 years ago, an i7 Thinkpad 
with not enough RAM for $760. I've since added 8 GB and an SSD. It has 
no problem with WSJT-X, nor with SO2R RTTY contesting -- two radios, 
each with two RTTY decoders, logging software, and  browsers, all 
running simultaneously. A comparable machine could probably be bought 
used for about $500.


I think the real obstacle is ignorance on the part of many hams as to 
what's available at moderate cost. I would encourage your ongoing 
development, along with an education campaign about hardware.


73, Jim K9YC 


Jim,

it would be helpful if you take the time to review the CPU specs of each 
of your machines that run WSJT-X (or MAP65) and determine if they 
support the AVX instruction set. With MS Windows this can be done by 
looking at the System panel (Windows+X then select System), find the CPU 
model (it is in the middle of the page) and look it up on the 
manufacture's web site. For example I might do an internet search for 
"Intel Core i7-3630QM specs" and go to the ark.intel.com link at the top 
of that search 
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/71459/intel-core-i7-3630qm-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-40-ghz.html 
. On that page under "Advanced Technologies" I find AVX, you may also 
see AVX2 or even one of the AVX512 versions, all of those include AVX 
support. Let me know if any of your WSJT-X PCs do not support AVX.


73
Bill
G4WJS.

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Bill Somerville]

On 09/06/2021 07:01, Claude Frantz wrote:

On 6/9/21 1:38 AM, Bill Somerville wrote:

Hi Bill and all,

The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all 
Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is 
also present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models 
(some late Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 
2013 to present.


None of the computers I'm using to run WSJT-X has the AVX extensions.

In my opinion, the planed performance enhancements with AVX should be 
optional and not mandatory. Perhaps a compile time option.


Best wishes,
Claude (DJ0OT) 


Claude,

we have no intention of supporting multiple version of WSJT-X (and 
MAP65) for different CPU instruction sets, any optimization using AVX 
will be selected automatically at runtime based on availability, and 
other than resulting speed differences will be invisible to the user.


73
Bill
G4WJS.

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Re: [wsjt-devel] built wsjtx 2.4.0 and wsjtx 2.5.0-rc1 with IC7300

[Saku]

Hi MIke!

libhamlib.so.4 => /lib64/libhamlib.so.4 (0x7f5546c73000)

lrwxrwxrwx. 1 root root 18 16. 4. 16:44 /lib64/libhamlib.so.4 -> 
libhamlib.so.4.0.2


Except cqrlog that does not use shared library.
It just telnet (legacy) short commands to localhost:4532 and expects 
return messages to be legacy format.


So it should work with any version that understands and replies in short 
form as it "has always been"



--
Saku
OH1KH

Black Michael via wsjt-devel kirjoitti 8.6.2021 klo 15.53:

All those programs will use the system libhamlib.so shared library.

If you do
ldd /usr/bin/fldigi | grep ham
ldd /usr/bin/qsstv | grep ham
ldd [path_to_cqrlog] | grep ham

And see what library it's pointing to.

Then, if you install the latest hamlib to replace libhamlib.so they 
should all work with the --vfo argument.


Mike W9MDB




On Tuesday, June 8, 2021, 07:05:01 AM CDT, Marco Calistri 
 wrote:



Il 08/06/21 03:23, Saku ha scritto:

Bill Somerville kirjoitti 7.6.2021 klo 20.36:


Hi Saku,

the WSJT-X v2.5.0 RC1 RPM package for Fedora targets Fedora 34, 
which is why you are seeing dependency conflicts while attempting to 
install on Fedora 33.


Try starting rigctld with a --vfo argument.

73
Bill
G4WJS.


Hi Bill!
Thanks for reply!

WSJT Home page says:

  * Version 2.5.0-rc1
  o Debian, Ubuntu 20.04 LTS, ... (64-bit):
wsjtx_2.5.0-rc1_amd64.deb

  o Fedora 33, RedHat, ... (64-bit): wsjtx-2.5.0-rc1.x86_64.rpm


Maybe typo from copying previous texts (from 2.4.0) to 2.5.0rc1?

--

Using "--vfo" parameter with rigctld started from boot time script 
makes wsjtx 2.5.0rc1 to work. Assume also 2.4.0 (self compiled) to work.
But as side effect wsjtx 2.3.1, cqrlog, fldigi and qsstv stop working 
then.  Rigctld returns something weird that they can not handle.


For wsjtx 2.3.1 it "turns red" and says "OOB" and reports rigcontrol 
error
For cqrlog it shows rig frequency ok, but TRXControl can not change 
bands and modes.
For fldigi it shows initial frequency but stuck up for long times and 
does not change mode or frequency

For Qsstv it reports at start:

When change frequency:

And frequency does not change, although it shows current frequency 
ok, like cqrlog.


All these programs are configured to use rig "Net Hamlib rigctld" 
(model #2) and connect via loclhost:4532 to previously started (from 
boot up script) rigctld that communicates then with IC7300 via 
/dev/ttyUSB0



This parameter "--vfo" can not be used. It seems there is something 
that makes rigctld reply with way that is not backward compatible.


No good !

--
Saku
OH1KH



Hi Saku!

I'm "happy" you're facing this kind of error for two reasons:

1) You are a development contributor of CQRLOG which I also use as 
logging program to start WSJT-X. Then maybe you could discover a solution.


2) I faced similarly same issues with my YAESU FT-100 if I want to use 
the hamlib netctl option.


In that case I notice the same weird VFO A/B switching occurring on 
different bands and sometime (depending on settings parameters) also 
the "OOB" error.


In order be able to use WSJT-X, I need to set the radio setting to my 
radio model: FT-100, I can't use anymore (since some of the most 
recent releases of WSJT-X and hamlib) the hamlib rigctl option in WSJT-X.


---
*73 de Marco, PY1ZRJ (former IK5BCU)*
**
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[alan2]

It depends on one's own financial situation as to what is moderate or 
modest cost!


It seems many hams are on retirement incomes so while I agree move 
things forward for those with modern hardware and/or financial means to 
improve their hardware, those with perhaps very ancient hardware being 
used to enjoy their hobby shouldn't be forgotten.


Alan G0TLK

On 09/06/2021 09:37, Jim Brown wrote:

On 6/8/2021 4:38 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:
we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take 
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU 
architectures.


Bill,

I have a half dozen Thinkpads of various vintages, most running i7 
processors, two running i5s. At least half were purchased as refurbs 
for less than $500. Machines like this are widely available in the 
States, so that on this side of the pond, hardware should be no 
limitation for any ham willing to spend a modest amount for a 
computer. In the case of one machine (the one in my shack, about 5 
years old purchased new), I needed to add some RAM.


I bought my current shack computer new 5-7 years ago, an i7 Thinkpad 
with not enough RAM for $760. I've since added 8 GB and an SSD. It has 
no problem with WSJT-X, nor with SO2R RTTY contesting -- two radios, 
each with two RTTY decoders, logging software, and  browsers, all 
running simultaneously. A comparable machine could probably be bought 
used for about $500.


I think the real obstacle is ignorance on the part of many hams as to 
what's available at moderate cost. I would encourage your ongoing 
development, along with an education campaign about hardware.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Jim Brown]

On 6/8/2021 4:38 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:
we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take 
advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU architectures.


Bill,

I have a half dozen Thinkpads of various vintages, most running i7 
processors, two running i5s. At least half were purchased as refurbs for 
less than $500. Machines like this are widely available in the States, 
so that on this side of the pond, hardware should be no limitation for 
any ham willing to spend a modest amount for a computer. In the case of 
one machine (the one in my shack, about 5 years old purchased new), I 
needed to add some RAM.


I bought my current shack computer new 5-7 years ago, an i7 Thinkpad 
with not enough RAM for $760. I've since added 8 GB and an SSD. It has 
no problem with WSJT-X, nor with SO2R RTTY contesting -- two radios, 
each with two RTTY decoders, logging software, and  browsers, all 
running simultaneously. A comparable machine could probably be bought 
used for about $500.


I think the real obstacle is ignorance on the part of many hams as to 
what's available at moderate cost. I would encourage your ongoing 
development, along with an education campaign about hardware.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Jonathan Magee]

Hi Bill
I use a Raspberry PI for running Wsjtx
Regards
Jonathan

On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 at 00:40, Bill Somerville  wrote:

> Hi all WSJT-X users,
>
> we are looking into some performance enhancements that will take
> advantage of some parallel processing features of modern CPU
> architectures. In order to gauge how much backwards compatibility for
> older CPUs we will have to implement it would help to know who is using
> such older processors. Please don't turn this thread in to a mine is
> better than yours conversation, all I need to know is who or how many of
> you are using the older CPU architectures. Note that this applies to MS
> Windows, Intel Linux, and Intel macOS users, it is about CPUs not
> operating systems.
>
> The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all
> Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also
> present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late
> Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.
>
> Notably Intel CPUs branded Celeron, Pentium, or Atom do not support the
> AVX technology.
>
> So in summary, look up your CPU and if it **does not support AVX**
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions) then let me
> know.
>
> 73
> Bill
> G4WJS.
>
>
>
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Call for information about PC systems being used for WSJT-X

[Claude Frantz]

On 6/9/21 1:38 AM, Bill Somerville wrote:

Hi Bill and all,

The technology we will use is called AVX and that is present on all 
Intel CPUs branded Core i3/i5/i7/i9 (circa 2010 to present), it is also 
present on AMD CPUs since the Jaguar or Puma based CPU models (some late 
Athlon-II CPUs, all Zen based CPUs, including Ryzen) circa 2013 to present.


None of the computers I'm using to run WSJT-X has the AVX extensions.

In my opinion, the planed performance enhancements with AVX should be 
optional and not mandatory. Perhaps a compile time option.


Best wishes,
Claude (DJ0OT)


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