Re: [wxhaskell-devel] Status/development of wxHaskell?
On 27 Jan, 2013, at 16:52 , Heinrich Apfelmus wrote: >> >> Although I think many GUI's will (eventually) run via a browser, >> I also think there is a place for standalone (i.e. non client/server) >> apps with a responsive interface with many bells & whistles. >> In other words, until the time browser based GUI's like ji >> are a reality wxHaskell (and/or gtk2hs) will have to do the job. > > Oh, I agree completely that desktop applications are still relevant. > What I mean to say is just that the Haskell ecosystem currently does not > really offer a low-cost and portable way to make simple GUI applications > and I think that the browser could fill that niche. In other words, I'm > thinking about the "I just want a button" desire, I don't really care > that it's in the browser. > > Both WxHaskell and Gtk2Hs are barely maintained and hard to install. I > have gotten so many emails from people that tried and failed to install > wxHaskell in order to check out my reactive-banana-wx package. Another Maintenance of wxHaskell also is hard because wxWidgets evolves (there are many uses of deprecated interfaces) and the wxdirect tool FFI interfaces to a (manually written) wrapper C library, not to the wxWdigets C++ .h files themselves. It probably would be worthwhile to look at http://hackage.haskell.org/package/cgen, used for OGRE interfacing (http://codeflow.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/wrapping-c-libraries-for-haskell/). More general, I think we might want to be able to extract FFI info from more C-like languages: yesterday C, today C++, tomorrow Javascript, depending to what languages Haskell compilers are going to compile to. > example is the hp2any suite for analyzing GHC performance profiles. > Unfortunately, I can't use it, because I didn't manage to install Gtk2Hs > on my OS X machine. Also, Conal Elliott once remarked that he has > stopped working on his legendary graphical tool ideas because the GUI > library situation was rather bleak. > > I think there is a considerable market for a low effort GUI thing that > works everywhere. It doesn't have to be great, but I think we're missing > out on a lot of brilliant GUI ideas that can't come to fruition because > Haskell doesn't have a very simple GUI framework. I agree. In terms of a design I'd very much like such a GUI to be a subset of wx (i.e. that which is easily mappable onto (e.g.) jquery), make such a subset be available in the form of a FRP friendly class, say WXBasicAPI, so multiple GUI backends can be provided. The logic can then be programmed using a FRP library (using your reactive-banana did work out pretty well), with sources/sinks expressed in terms of WXBasicAPI. A web based GUI could be done along the lines of both ji and mentioned Modular-Haskell-GUI. The latter also uses websockets which allows for more efficient, non-polling communication. Regretfully the Modular-Haskell-GUI experiment did not reach the point of working & usable & properly documented, but ideas of it can be used. > >> For some more ji like experiments see also: >> >> https://github.com/bertm/Modular-Haskell-GUI >> https://github.com/UU-ComputerScience/js-asteroids (using UHC) >> >> The idea in the latter was to offer a wxHaskell implementation >> minimally using code behind a FFI, therefore avoiding as much as >> possible maintenance of a non-Haskell codebase. If not done that (or >> similar) way we will still end up in a similar situation as is the case >> with wxHaskell, i.e. reliance on C++ (or Javascript) code. > > Nice, these projects look promising and definitely more mature than Ji. > What happened to Modular-Haskell-GUI? There's a paper draft in the > repository, but I haven't seen it published anywhere. regards, - Atze - Atze Dijkstra, Department of Information and Computing Sciences. /|\ Utrecht University, PO Box 80089, 3508 TB Utrecht, Netherlands. / | \ Tel.: +31-30-2534118/1454 | WWW : http://www.cs.uu.nl/~atze . /--| \ Fax : +31-30-2513971 | Email: a...@uu.nl ... / |___\ -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ wxhaskell-devel mailing list wxhaskell-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wxhaskell-devel
Re: [wxhaskell-devel] Status/development of wxHaskell?
Atze Dijkstra wrote: > Heinrich Apfelmus wrote: > >> Personally, I'm betting on browser-based GUIs, and in particular Chris >> Done's "ji" project >> >> https://github.com/chrisdone/ji >> >> It's not on hackage and I get the impression that Chris has abandoned >> his little experiment, but he has still accepted a patch I've sent. A >> small experiment on my part >> >> http://apfelmus.nfshost.com/blog/2012/10/31-frp-ji.html >> >> has actually convinced me that implementing GUIs in this way is both >> viable and useful. If someone else were to take an interest in Ji as >> well, I'd be very happy to contribute. > > Although I think many GUI's will (eventually) run via a browser, > I also think there is a place for standalone (i.e. non client/server) > apps with a responsive interface with many bells & whistles. > In other words, until the time browser based GUI's like ji > are a reality wxHaskell (and/or gtk2hs) will have to do the job. Oh, I agree completely that desktop applications are still relevant. What I mean to say is just that the Haskell ecosystem currently does not really offer a low-cost and portable way to make simple GUI applications and I think that the browser could fill that niche. In other words, I'm thinking about the "I just want a button" desire, I don't really care that it's in the browser. Both WxHaskell and Gtk2Hs are barely maintained and hard to install. I have gotten so many emails from people that tried and failed to install wxHaskell in order to check out my reactive-banana-wx package. Another example is the hp2any suite for analyzing GHC performance profiles. Unfortunately, I can't use it, because I didn't manage to install Gtk2Hs on my OS X machine. Also, Conal Elliott once remarked that he has stopped working on his legendary graphical tool ideas because the GUI library situation was rather bleak. I think there is a considerable market for a low effort GUI thing that works everywhere. It doesn't have to be great, but I think we're missing out on a lot of brilliant GUI ideas that can't come to fruition because Haskell doesn't have a very simple GUI framework. > For some more ji like experiments see also: > > https://github.com/bertm/Modular-Haskell-GUI > https://github.com/UU-ComputerScience/js-asteroids (using UHC) > > The idea in the latter was to offer a wxHaskell implementation > minimally using code behind a FFI, therefore avoiding as much as > possible maintenance of a non-Haskell codebase. If not done that (or > similar) way we will still end up in a similar situation as is the case > with wxHaskell, i.e. reliance on C++ (or Javascript) code. Nice, these projects look promising and definitely more mature than Ji. What happened to Modular-Haskell-GUI? There's a paper draft in the repository, but I haven't seen it published anywhere. Concerning the non-Haskell code base, Ji uses a quick and dirty interpreter that can execute arbitrary JavaScript commands, so not too much code is spent in JS. This way, the GUI programs can still be written with GHC. Best regards, Heinrich Apfelmus -- http://apfelmus.nfshost.com -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ wxhaskell-devel mailing list wxhaskell-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wxhaskell-devel
Re: [wxhaskell-devel] Status/development of wxHaskell?
> (I am no git guru, but they should be easy to merge), You could try to issue a pull-request, the button to do that is on the github website on the repository home-page. > so until it has become clear what will happen with wxHaskell we can use that > repo to gather the fixes we make. It is probably wise to write this down on the wiki[1] as well, it now refers to the repository of Donoghue. [1]: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/WxHaskell - Alessandro On 26 jan. 2013, at 14:28, Atze Dijkstra wrote: > I have forked the wxHaskell git repo and put my modfications in there > (https://github.com/atzedijkstra/wxHaskell). There are some other forks, but > all with few changes (I am no git guru, but they should be easy to merge), so > until it has become clear what will happen with wxHaskell we can use that > repo to gather the fixes we make. > > regards, > Atze > > On 26 Jan, 2013, at 00:18 , Henk-Jan van Tuyl wrote: > >> On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 12:09:00 +0100, Atze Dijkstra >> wrote: >> >>> is any development/maintenance done at all? >> >> I just decided to do some maintenance; I hope someone will apply my >> patches. There are several yaks to be shaved beforehand, however. >> >> Regards, >> Henk-Jan van Tuyl >> >> >> -- >> http://Van.Tuyl.eu/ >> http://members.chello.nl/hjgtuyl/tourdemonad.html >> Haskell programming >> -- >> >> -- >> Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, >> MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current >> with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft >> MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d >> ___ >> wxhaskell-devel mailing list >> wxhaskell-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wxhaskell-devel > > >- Atze - > > Atze Dijkstra, Department of Information and Computing Sciences. /|\ > Utrecht University, PO Box 80089, 3508 TB Utrecht, Netherlands. / | \ > Tel.: +31-30-2534118/1454 | WWW : http://www.cs.uu.nl/~atze . /--| \ > Fax : +31-30-2513971 | Email: a...@uu.nl ... / |___\ > > > > > -- > Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, > MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current > with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft > MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: > http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d > ___ > wxhaskell-devel mailing list > wxhaskell-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wxhaskell-devel -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d___ wxhaskell-devel mailing list wxhaskell-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wxhaskell-devel
Re: [wxhaskell-devel] Status/development of wxHaskell?
I have forked the wxHaskell git repo and put my modfications in there (https://github.com/atzedijkstra/wxHaskell). There are some other forks, but all with few changes (I am no git guru, but they should be easy to merge), so until it has become clear what will happen with wxHaskell we can use that repo to gather the fixes we make. regards, Atze On 26 Jan, 2013, at 00:18 , Henk-Jan van Tuyl wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 12:09:00 +0100, Atze Dijkstra > wrote: > >> is any development/maintenance done at all? > > I just decided to do some maintenance; I hope someone will apply my > patches. There are several yaks to be shaved beforehand, however. > > Regards, > Henk-Jan van Tuyl > > > -- > http://Van.Tuyl.eu/ > http://members.chello.nl/hjgtuyl/tourdemonad.html > Haskell programming > -- > > -- > Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, > MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current > with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft > MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: > http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d > ___ > wxhaskell-devel mailing list > wxhaskell-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wxhaskell-devel - Atze - Atze Dijkstra, Department of Information and Computing Sciences. /|\ Utrecht University, PO Box 80089, 3508 TB Utrecht, Netherlands. / | \ Tel.: +31-30-2534118/1454 | WWW : http://www.cs.uu.nl/~atze . /--| \ Fax : +31-30-2513971 | Email: a...@uu.nl ... / |___\ -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ wxhaskell-devel mailing list wxhaskell-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wxhaskell-devel
Re: [wxhaskell-devel] Status/development of wxHaskell?
On 25 Jan, 2013, at 15:51 , Heinrich Apfelmus wrote: > I can't speak for Jeremy, nor do I wish to step on anyone's toes, but > looking at the current project status, I have to conclude that wxHaskell > is not actively maintained anymore. > > I'm interested in GUI programming and I have got some ideas on improving > the wxHaskell APIs that are "backported" from FRP, but sadly no one to > address them to. So, I'm interested in contributing, but I don't have > the time or inclination to maintain a large GUI project myself. I guess we're not the only ones in this situation. I know I am. Nevertheless I have spent some time fixing this particular treeCtrl bug I ran into and put the modifications in a git fork, to be incorporated in the main repo later I hope. It turned out to be relatively easy to fix, wxHaskell builds (relatively) easy given my system setup (OSX10.8). Perhaps some other issues (and wishes) can be fixed relatively easy too. > > > Concerning future GUI development, there is GTK2Hs which works quite > well on Linux, but is difficult to install on all other platforms. It also relies on X11 and has a non-native look&feel on non-linux platforms. > > Personally, I'm betting on browser-based GUIs, and in particular Chris > Done's "ji" project > > https://github.com/chrisdone/ji > > It's not on hackage and I get the impression that Chris has abandoned > his little experiment, but he has still accepted a patch I've sent. A > small experiment on my part > > http://apfelmus.nfshost.com/blog/2012/10/31-frp-ji.html > > has actually convinced me that implementing GUIs in this way is both > viable and useful. If someone else were to take an interest in Ji as > well, I'd be very happy to contribute. Although I think many GUI's will (eventually) run via a browser, I also think there is a place for standalone (i.e. non client/server) apps with a responsive interface with many bells & whistles. In other words, until the time browser based GUI's like ji are a reality wxHaskell (and/or gtk2hs) will have to do the job. For some more ji like experiments see also: https://github.com/bertm/Modular-Haskell-GUI https://github.com/UU-ComputerScience/js-asteroids (using UHC) The idea in the latter was to offer a wxHaskell implementation minimally using code behind a FFI, therefore avoiding as much as possible maintenance of a non-Haskell codebase. If not done that (or similar) way we will still end up in a similar situation as is the case with wxHaskell, i.e. reliance on C++ (or Javascript) code. > > > Best regards, > Heinrich Apfelmus > > -- > http://apfelmus.nfshost.com > > > -- > Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, > MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current > with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft > MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: > http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d > ___ > wxhaskell-devel mailing list > wxhaskell-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wxhaskell-devel - Atze - Atze Dijkstra, Department of Information and Computing Sciences. /|\ Utrecht University, PO Box 80089, 3508 TB Utrecht, Netherlands. / | \ Tel.: +31-30-2534118/1454 | WWW : http://www.cs.uu.nl/~atze . /--| \ Fax : +31-30-2513971 | Email: a...@uu.nl ... / |___\ -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ wxhaskell-devel mailing list wxhaskell-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wxhaskell-devel
Re: [wxhaskell-devel] Status/development of wxHaskell?
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 12:09:00 +0100, Atze Dijkstra wrote: > is any development/maintenance done at all? I just decided to do some maintenance; I hope someone will apply my patches. There are several yaks to be shaved beforehand, however. Regards, Henk-Jan van Tuyl -- http://Van.Tuyl.eu/ http://members.chello.nl/hjgtuyl/tourdemonad.html Haskell programming -- -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ wxhaskell-devel mailing list wxhaskell-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wxhaskell-devel
Re: [wxhaskell-devel] Status/development of wxHaskell?
Atze Dijkstra wrote: > Related to this, both archives > are inactive anyway since summer 2012, both are also still mentioned > on the wxHaskell wiki, activity on this mailinglist is low, so is any > development/maintenance done at all? > > I am asking these questions as I am fixing a legacy wxHaskell app (7 > years old), and also trying to figure out whether wxHaskell is still > a good way to go for future GUI development. For the record, I like > wxHaskell, but I need to know (probably like others using wxHaskell) > whether wxHaskell (or for that matter, any GUI programming in > Haskell/GHC) is going to be used/maintained in the long run, and for > that some basics (like which repo is used) need to be clear. I can't speak for Jeremy, nor do I wish to step on anyone's toes, but looking at the current project status, I have to conclude that wxHaskell is not actively maintained anymore. I'm interested in GUI programming and I have got some ideas on improving the wxHaskell APIs that are "backported" from FRP, but sadly no one to address them to. So, I'm interested in contributing, but I don't have the time or inclination to maintain a large GUI project myself. Concerning future GUI development, there is GTK2Hs which works quite well on Linux, but is difficult to install on all other platforms. Personally, I'm betting on browser-based GUIs, and in particular Chris Done's "ji" project https://github.com/chrisdone/ji It's not on hackage and I get the impression that Chris has abandoned his little experiment, but he has still accepted a patch I've sent. A small experiment on my part http://apfelmus.nfshost.com/blog/2012/10/31-frp-ji.html has actually convinced me that implementing GUIs in this way is both viable and useful. If someone else were to take an interest in Ji as well, I'd be very happy to contribute. Best regards, Heinrich Apfelmus -- http://apfelmus.nfshost.com -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ wxhaskell-devel mailing list wxhaskell-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wxhaskell-devel
[wxhaskell-devel] Status/development of wxHaskell?
L.S., I am trying to understand/fix problems with treeCtrl, which is crashing (see related bug report). I got sources from github, but after some time I saw that the cabal version nr of wxdirect from the git archive (https://github.com/jodonoghue/wxHaskell/blob/master/wxdirect/wxdirect.cabal) is lower than the cabal version nr from the darcs archive (http://code.haskell.org/wxhaskell/wxdirect/wxdirect.cabal), and similarly for the wx package, but just the other way around. Hence the question 'which repo is the one actually in use?' and against which repo patches can be committed? Related to this, both archives are inactive anyway since summer 2012, both are also still mentioned on the wxHaskell wiki, activity on this mailinglist is low, so is any development/maintenance done at all? I am asking these questions as I am fixing a legacy wxHaskell app (7 years old), and also trying to figure out whether wxHaskell is still a good way to go for future GUI development. For the record, I like wxHaskell, but I need to know (probably like others using wxHaskell) whether wxHaskell (or for that matter, any GUI programming in Haskell/GHC) is going to be used/maintained in the long run, and for that some basics (like which repo is used) need to be clear. regards, - Atze - Atze Dijkstra, Department of Information and Computing Sciences. /|\ Utrecht University, PO Box 80089, 3508 TB Utrecht, Netherlands. / | \ Tel.: +31-30-2534118/1454 | WWW : http://www.cs.uu.nl/~atze . /--| \ Fax : +31-30-2513971 | Email: a...@uu.nl ... / |___\ -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnnow-d2d ___ wxhaskell-devel mailing list wxhaskell-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wxhaskell-devel
