[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

not with day dreaming), or do a koan and get 30 beatings. >   > Anthony > > --- On Mon, 24/1/11, ED wrote: > > > From: ED > Subject: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, 24 January, 2011, 10:14 PM > > >   >

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

r you like with the money, contrary to the old man's wishes. > Â > As regards 'cultures far removed from India', what have you read? Do you believe them? > Â > Anthony > > --- On Mon, 24/1/11, Bill! BillSmart@... wrote: > > > From: Bill! BillSmart@... > S

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

ED, As usual with your posts no "corrections" (inserting my opinions) are neccessary, but I will add a few unnecessary comments: --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" wrote: > > > > Bill, > > o zen = 'direct experience of reality' > > o To realize direct experience of reality, one practices s

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

Anthony, According to Dr. James Austin in his book 'Zen-Brain Reflections', the Jhana states are encountered immediately prior to the states of kensho-satori. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wrote: > > Bill/ED, > > There is no denying that the present forms of zen (Soto,

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

ED,   My imput:   To realize direct experience of reality, one practice shikantaza with clear mind (not with day dreaming), or do a koan and get 30 beatings.   Anthony --- On Mon, 24/1/11, ED wrote: From: ED Subject: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 24

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

on, 24/1/11, Bill! wrote: From: Bill! Subject: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 24 January, 2011, 8:28 AM   ED, What we now call zen (direct experience of reality) exsisted before Buddha and therefore before Buddhism. There are also examples of zen

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

Bill, o zen = 'direct experience of reality' o To realize direct experience of reality, one practices shikantaza o With this practice, and without heeding any other of the Buddha's teachings, one can eventually realize one's True Nature (or Buddha Nature) o Zen (or Zen Buddhism) = zen

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "SteveW" wrote: > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "SteveW" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > > > > > > > This is a given in zen.

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

ED, He is pointing at the moon, and most people are examining his finger. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" wrote: > > > > What was the Zen priest trying to ay? > > (1) There is meaning and purpose in every human life > > (2) There is no intrinsic meaning and purpose to life,

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

ED, What we now call zen (direct experience of reality) exsisted before Buddha and therefore before Buddhism. There are also examples of zen in cultures far removed from India. I see Zen Buddhism as a Buddhist expression of zen. I practice a Bill! expression of zen. What's in your wallet?

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

ED,   (6) is what he is trying to say.   Anthony --- On Sun, 23/1/11, ED wrote: From: ED Subject: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, 23 January, 2011, 11:33 PM   What was the Zen priest trying to ay? (1) There is meaning and purpose in every human

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

put the oxygen mask on those next to you first, before you wear it yourself. The danger is the bodhisatva may not survive that. Or he can only talk about helping others and surviving a plane crash.   Anthony --- On Sun, 23/1/11, ED wrote: From: ED Subject: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem To

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" wrote: > > > > Whether fixated on the finger or fixated on pointing, it's all the Dance > of Shiva. > > http://www.indyarocks.com/videos/Bharatanatyam-The-Dance-of-Shiva--DVD-1\ > 351046 >

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "SteveW" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > > > > > This is a given in zen. Buddha Mind is ineffable. The moon is > > > ineffable. The best you can do to

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

What was the Zen priest trying to ay? (1) There is meaning and purpose in every human life (2) There is no intrinsic meaning and purpose to life, other than what you give it (3) Realizing sunyata is the meaning and purpose of life (4) The question is meaningless (5) The meaning and purpo

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

Is that possibly a consequence of the worldview of the culture you were raised in? --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, A Sahal wrote: > > I've heard this in a Zen context, Mark. When asked what the afterlife is like a > Zennist says "Its just the same as before you were born. Do you remembe

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

ZAZEN MEDITATION GUIDE - Chapter 17. The Differences between Buddhism and Zen There is a question that is often raised by people who are interested in Zen Buddhism for the first time, "What is difference between Buddhism and Zen?I have the main points for you here: "After the Buddha passed awa

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

Whether fixated on the finger or fixated on pointing, it's all the Dance of Shiva. http://www.indyarocks.com/videos/Bharatanatyam-The-Dance-of-Shiva--DVD-1\ 351046 --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com,

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "SteveW" wrote: > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > > > This is a given in zen. Buddha Mind is ineffable. The moon is ineffable. > > The best you can do to communicate these things is to point to the moon. > > Pointing is attemp

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

Bill wrote: ".All you can do is point and hope others don't get fixated on your finger".   hahaha...!!!.  Very good Billl.  Thanks for being there.  You keep us all going!!!   Mayka --- On Sat, 22/1/11, Bill! wrote: From: Bill! Subject: [Zen] Re: Meditation Proble

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > This is a given in zen. Buddha Mind is ineffable. The moon is ineffable. > The best you can do to communicate these things is to point to the moon. > Pointing is attempting to communicate. All you can do is point and hope > others don't

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wrote: > > Who can say why fingers point or do not point?  Mind. > Who is pointing? Mind. > And who are these people that "ancient zen masters" wanted to educate, Mind. > and do they really need to be educated? Mind decides. >   > Anthony Well,

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

This is a given in zen. Buddha Mind is ineffable. The moon is ineffable. The best you can do to communicate these things is to point to the moon. Pointing is attempting to communicate. All you can do is point and hope others don't get fixated on your finger. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoo

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

Who can say why fingers point or do not point?  Mind. Who is pointing? Mind. And who are these people that "ancient zen masters" wanted to educate, Mind. and do they really need to be educated? Mind decides.   Anthony --- On Sun, 23/1/11, SteveW wrote: From: SteveW Subject

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, A Sahal wrote: > > > > Hi again, Sahal. Tell me, are you really a person? Did you appear with > > your > > brain and will you disappear someday when the brain dies? > > Yes. When I was born my brain was a muddled mess of too many neurones with > very > f

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wrote: > > Steve, >   > If you point your fingers at the keyboard with a purpose, that purpose is the > moon. If not, you have not learned the way of ancient zen masters, who > pointed to the moon to educate people. >   > Anthony Hi Anthony. Who

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

Steve,   If you point your fingers at the keyboard with a purpose, that purpose is the moon. If not, you have not learned the way of ancient zen masters, who pointed to the moon to educate people.   Anthony --- On Sat, 22/1/11, SteveW wrote: From: SteveW Subject: [Zen] Re: Meditation

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

I've heard this in a Zen context, Mark. When asked what the afterlife is like a Zennist says "Its just the same as before you were born. Do you remember that?" I find the concept of oblivion quite comforting. > It sounds like the dying man feared death. (Or was suffering because of an > attachm

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

> Hi again, Sahal. Tell me, are you really a person? Did you appear with your > brain and will you disappear someday when the brain dies? Yes. When I was born my brain was a muddled mess of too many neurones with very few meaningful/useful connections.This was reflected in my behaviour-I basi

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

 >By doing this > I saw how much time I was wasting thinking about past events that were > already gone, and future events that had not even happened yet. > Brett That's so true. I periodically have to remind myself of this fact, but when you're in the thick of a transiently stressful situation,

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

Hello Chris, > This question "Who is " is sort of a standard zen joke: > > Two monks walk into a bar. They sit down, and after some time one of > them says, "So what is mu?" The other one says, "Who wants to know?" Oh I see, that went over my head. > The goal of sitting is to sit stilly :

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

Just a note to thank everyone who took part of this thread which I missed out due to intense mailing posting receive alone the weeks. It's not just about sitting down but also about sharing our practice, difficulties or the overcoming of them, our way through, the fruits of the practicein

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wrote: > > Steve, > > Thank you for all your fingers pointing to the moon. Enlightening remarks. > But what do you see on the moon? A long advertisement entitled 'Just this'? > > Anthony Hi Anthony. What moon? I was pointing my fingers at the ke

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

events that were already gone, and future events that had not even happened yet. Brett http://www.pbase.com/brett1963 --- On Fri, 1/21/11, Anil Sahal wrote: From: Anil Sahal Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 21, 2011, 7:35 AM >

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

Steve, Thank you for all your fingers pointing to the moon. Enlightening remarks. But what do you see on the moon? A long advertisement entitled 'Just this'? Anthony --- On Sat, 22/1/11, SteveW wrote: From: SteveW Subject: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroup

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

It sounds like the dying man feared death. (Or was suffering because of an attachment to living.) I prefer Mark Twain's perspective: "I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it." On Fri, Ja

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, A Sahal wrote: > > We are our brains and I can > demonstrate that by removing bits of it until the person disappears. > Unfortunately, this happens everyday as neuro-degenerative diseases turn > intelligent people into vegetables. Hi again, Sahal. Tell me

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

> Hi Anil. I am sorry if my comments were largely not helpful. I think they were unhelpful because I couldn't understand what you meant. I love language for its ability to convey information accurately and still have beauty and I also love poetry for its ability to produce double-meanings and jo

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 7:12 AM, Anil Sahal wrote: >>IMO, rather than sitting with the intention to >> not have thoughts arise, it is better to sit without any expectations at >> all.  >Who is relishing sitting? This question "Who is " is sort of a standard zen joke: Two monks walk into a b

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anil Sahal wrote: > > > Hi, pleased to meet you. > > Likewise. > > > >IMO, rather than sitting with the intention to > > not have thoughts arise, it is better to sit without any expectations at > > all. >Who is relishing sitting? > > I think any human be

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

Asking plainly, no attitude of gratitude toward persons who put effort into answering your questions? ;-) --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Mark Perew wrote: Anil - You and I are both fans of plain speaking. I appreciate your honesty about that, and calling out the non-clarity in so

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

> You and I are both fans of plain speaking. I appreciate your honesty > about that, and calling out the non-clarity in some of the other messages. Plain and simple is the way ahead in my opinion, but its not impressive! Anil Current Book Discussion: any

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

Anil - You and I are both fans of plain speaking. I appreciate your honesty about that, and calling out the non-clarity in some of the other messages. On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Anil Sahal wrote: > > Hi, pleased to meet you. > > Likewise. > > > >IMO, rather than sitting with the intenti

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

> Hi, pleased to meet you. Likewise. >IMO, rather than sitting with the intention to > not have thoughts arise, it is better to sit without any expectations at > all. >Who is relishing sitting? I think any human being who says they do Zazen without a motivation is either a liar or a Buddha

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

I believe Steve's recommendations to be sound. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "SteveW" wrote: > > Hi, pleased to meet you. IMO, rather than sitting with the intention to not have thoughts arise, it is better to sit without any expectations at all. Who is relishing sitting? Please b

Re: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

: SteveW Subject: [Zen] Re: Meditation Problem To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 10:12 AM --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "shihogiri" wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > I'm looking forward to some interesting conversations, tips and advi

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "shihogiri" wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > I'm looking forward to some interesting conversations, tips and advice. > > So here's my first request for advice. I've been sitting morning, (shortly > after getting up and dealing with my cats!) and evening (befor

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

Hello Anil, It is not advisable to Hello Anil, I presume you were counting breaths. If so, I believe you were 'doing the right thing', namely a concentration meditation (samatha) to tranquilize and stabilize the mind (as required), prior to resuming shikantaza. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoo