Re: [ZESTCaste] Fwd: President 83rd Marathi Sahiya Sammelan
This is what might be expected from the all-India (elite) Marathi sahitya sammelan! Gail On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Dr. K. Jamanadas kjmn...@gmail.com wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Dr. K. Jamanadas kjmn...@gmail.com Date: Feb 24, 2010 8:16 PM Subject: President 83rd Marathi Sahiya Sammelan To: RAJSHEKAR VT dalitvo...@rediffmail.com, dalit da...@yahoogroups.com, buddhistcir...@yahoogroups.com, kjmng...@gmail.com President 83rd Marathi Sahiya Sammelan Dr. K. Jamanadas, Shalimar, Main Road, Chandrapur 442402 *Famine stricken Maharashtra celebrates * While State of Maharashtra is facing severe famine like situation in 20,000... INFORMATION OVERLOAD? Get all ZESTCaste mails sent out in a span of 24 hours in a single mail. Subscribe to the daily digest version by sending a blank mail to zestmedia-dig...@yahoogroups.com, OR, if you have a Yahoo! Id, change your settings at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/join/ PARTICIPATE:- On this list you can share caste news, discuss caste issues and network with like-minded anti-caste people from across India and the world. Just write to zestcaste@yahoogroups.com TELL FRIENDS TO SIGN UP:- If you got this mail as a forward, subscribe to ZESTCaste by sending a blank mail to zestcaste-subscr...@yahoogroups.com OR, if you have a Yahoo! ID, by visiting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join/ Also have a look at our sister list, ZESTMedia: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zestcaste-dig...@yahoogroups.com zestcaste-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zestcaste-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ZESTCaste] Nepal: 'Benefits' of being Brahmin
How is it anyone can stand outside history and say, I had nothing to do with this! it was only my ancestorsnothing remains today? That is hard to believe. What is the percentage of Brahmans and other so-called upper castes in parliament? in business? in the professions? is that totally accidental? perhaps they are simply more meritorious! Anyway, the denial is the same as would be made by so many Indian Brahmans! And, these prohibitory orders were imposed only if wrongs were knownAstounding sentence. Atrocities against Dalits take place only when their wrong in being a Dalit is known!! Ambedkar himself had no trouble when his caste was not known; only after becoming known was he thrown out of his boarding, or as a child thrown out of a bullock cart Gail On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Siddhartha Kumar mailsiddharth...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.myrepublica.com/portal/index.php?action=news_detailsnews_id=14982 'Benefits' of being Brahmin MAHABIR PAUDYAL INFORMATION OVERLOAD? Get all ZESTCaste mails sent out in a span of 24 hours in a single mail. Subscribe to the daily digest version by sending a blank mail to zestmedia-dig...@yahoogroups.com, OR, if you have a Yahoo! Id, change your settings at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/join/ PARTICIPATE:- On this list you can share caste news, discuss caste issues and network with like-minded anti-caste people from across India and the world. Just write to zestcaste@yahoogroups.com TELL FRIENDS TO SIGN UP:- If you got this mail as a forward, subscribe to ZESTCaste by sending a blank mail to zestcaste-subscr...@yahoogroups.com OR, if you have a Yahoo! ID, by visiting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join/ Also have a look at our sister list, ZESTMedia: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zestcaste-dig...@yahoogroups.com zestcaste-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zestcaste-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ZESTCaste] Fwd: Information needed
Dear Akhilesh, I just recently wrote an article on Dalit Christians. But I have little solid data. You could help in telling about your local conditions. I'm attaching the article, in solidarity, Gail Moderator's Note: Pls find this file in the 'Files' section of this groups here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/files. The name of the file is 'Dalit Christians' On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Siddhartha Kumar mailsiddharth...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I am akhilesh , I belong to mala-christian(a converted dalit group of andhra) community.First of all I appreciate your effort in educating dalits about present happenings in the society.I often read your mails. I would like to know the economic,social and educational status of my community when compared to other dalits or backward castes in AP or any state in India.I know that my community is progressing quite well but i don`t have any evidence to prove it to myself .I hope you had lot of material about dalits so if at all you had any material in pdfs u can send me.Your help will be highly appreciated. Thanking you With regards, Akhilesh. Moderator's Note: Members may want to respond to Akhilesh's request.
Re: [ZESTCaste] Maharastra scrapes off icon name from school books
Dear friends: In fact, it has primarily been Brahmans objecting to this removal; it was Brahmans in the first place who emphasized Dada kondadev's role -- especially Babasaheb Purandare (chitpavan brahman) whose interpretation of Shivaji has been very popular and very reactionary. Ramdas as Shivaji's spiritual guru and Kondadev as his political guru -- every nonBrahman needs a Brahman advisor. There would not have been so much fuss over Jim Laine's book either if the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute had employed -- and trained as researchers -- a single nonBrahman or dalit. After BORI got ransacked by the Sambhaji Brigade (a stupid move actually) it ended up better off than ever, with all kinds of new computers etc donated by the Pune elite. Jaisinghrao Pawar, a maratha historian and head of the committee which made the changes, has written an article justifying these on the basis of a nearly contemporary record. the bakhars which refer to Dadaji Kondadev are over a century after Shivaji's death. By that time the Peshwai was in full swing and brahmans were taking charge again of Maharashtra's intellectual life. Dalits will remember that the final defeat of the Peshwa regime at Koregaon, January 1, 1818. Yes, people on all sides should be open to discussion on these issues. But better get the facts before hastily condemning something as caste politics. Removing brahman propaganda from school textbooks is quite justified. Gail p.s. incidentally, when Laine's book had come out, before all the fracas, I had suggested to him that he should also investigate the story that Jijabai was a Mahar. He laughed off the possibility. The fact is that almost every foreign scholar in Maharashtra up to now has had brahman research assistants; this has also affected the information they get. BORI also acted in a cowardly way in firing the man who told Laine the Kondadev story. Laine should have published all the stories. http://ibnlive.in.com/news/maharastra-scrapes-off-icon-name-from-school-books/95343-3.html Maharastra scrapes off icon name from school books Jemima Rohekar CNN-IBN INFORMATION OVERLOAD? Get all ZESTCaste mails sent out in a span of 24 hours in a single mail. Subscribe to the daily digest version by sending a blank mail to zestmedia-dig...@yahoogroups.com, OR, if you have a Yahoo! Id, change your settings at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/join/ PARTICIPATE:- On this list you can share caste news, discuss caste issues and network with like-minded anti-caste people from across India and the world. Just write to zestcaste@yahoogroups.com TELL FRIENDS TO SIGN UP:- If you got this mail as a forward, subscribe to ZESTCaste by sending a blank mail to zestcaste-subscr...@yahoogroups.com OR, if you have a Yahoo! ID, by visiting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join/ Also have a look at our sister list, ZESTMedia: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:zestcaste-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:zestcaste-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zestcaste-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ZESTCaste] No quota in pvt sector, please: India Inc
That's only some of India Inc. others like Tata have started to do something, and some journals like Business Outlook are supporting the effort. This also has something to do with individuals involved! It's up to us and the govt to keep up the pressure. Force the Birlas and the Misras (and tne Narayan Murthis) to fall in line. Gail On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Siddhartha Kumar mailsiddharth...@gmail.com wrote: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/No-quota-in-pvt-sector-please-India-Inc/articleshow/4682425.cms No quota in pvt sector, please: India Inc 21 Jun 2009, 0507 hrs IST, Shobha John , TNN NEW DELHI:
[ZESTCaste] article on merit for Outlook
Some of you may be interested! feel free to pass it on -- Gail Moderator's Note: You can access Gail's opinion piece from Outlook Business here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/files/. The title of the file is: Untapped_talent_Gail_Omvedt_OB.pdf
Re: [ZESTCaste] Urgent need: Ambedkar biography in Tamil and Kannada
Benjamin, You're welcome to do a translation of my book on Ambedkar that Penguin has published. Supposedly theyhold the rights, but I think if you can manage it, publish it under a slightly different title, they'll never be able to enforce their intellectual property rights Gail On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Benjamin Kaila benjamin_ka...@yahoo.comwrote: Dear friends, Here is an opportunity to do your bit to spread the message of Dr Ambedkar. We need Dr Ambedkar's biography in Tamil and Kannada. If anyone is interested to donate, please let me know immediately. I will let you know where to deliver them. These are required to be distributed in our May 30, 2009 function in Hyderabad. I am sorry for asking at the last moment. Here is what we need. Tamil books: 20 Kannada books: 10 With regards Benjamin * -- * *An educated man without character and humility was more dangerous than a beast. If his education was detrimental to the welfare of poor, he was a curse to society. * *-Babasaheb Dr B R Ambedkar* *Please visit www.friendsforeducation.org or www.ambedkarscholarship.org*
Re: [ZESTCaste] What about money in Temples?
And many of the temples are of bahujan-dalit deities (e.g. Pandharpur) but controlled by Brahmans still. Free Vitthala! Badwe hatao! The same should be said for Tirupati, right? Gail On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 4:54 AM, Dr. K. Jamanadas kjmn...@gmail.com wrote: What about money in Temples? After Barrack Obama declared he would do everything to get back American money stashed away in Swiss banks, the political leaders in India also started talking about the Indian money kept in all foreign tax heavens. According to a news report BJP leader L K Advani, during an election meeting at Dharwad, dared Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to come out with the names of those Indians having stacked money in Swiss banks and take steps to get that money back to India, which is about Rs. 25 lakh crores according to Professor Vaidyanathan committee. He said the Swiss banks had already revealed the names of 50 Indians who had deposited their money in the bank and he accused that the Indian government had concealed the information. It is alright to talk, but have they got political will to bring back all that money? One Marathi newspaper expressed the opinion that Mr. Advani opened the topic to warn his own men to ‘do something’ before the official enquiry and procedure to get back the money starts. In a discussion on one TV channel, the opinion was expressed that it is not that easy to bring back the money. So a nominal tax should be charged and the money should be given back to the same individual. If this not done it is not possible to get back anything from these Swiss accounts. Somebody suggested a stern action against the person concerned and confiscation of the whole amount. Some people started talking how gainfully that money could be utilized. What I like to ask is who has got the will to deal with this problem. Only if Mayawati comes to power in centre, she might do something, otherwise it is just an empty talk. Similar to money in Swiss banks, a tremendous lot of money is locked up in Hindu temples. Can anything be done to bring back that money into circulation and utilize for public good? The intellectuals must start thinking on this problem. It is, of course, more difficult problem than getting back Swiss money. But is it not time, somebody start thinking about that. Who is going to bell the cat? Thanks! Dr. K. Jamanadas, Shalimar, Main Road, Chandrapur - 442 402 Friday, May 08, 2009
Re: [ZESTCaste] Children of a lesser god?
Dear ZESTCaste and other friends, Here is the full copy of the special issue f Business Outlok on diversity; the cover story Bite the Cast Bullet has already been sent around but the full isue is worth seeing. Pass it around! Gail http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Ludhiana/Children-of-a-lesser-god/articleshow/4451863.cms Children of a lesser god? 26 Apr 2009, 2258 hrs IST, Divya Sethi, TNN LUDHIANA: INFORMATION OVERLOAD? Get all ZESTCaste mails sent out in a span of 24 hours in a single mail. Subscribe to the daily digest version by sending a blank mail to zestmedia-dig...@yahoogroups.com, OR, if you have a Yahoo! Id, change your settings at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/join/ PARTICIPATE:- On this list you can share caste news, discuss caste issues and network with like-minded anti-caste people from across India and the world. Just write to zestcaste@yahoogroups.com TELL FRIENDS TO SIGN UP:- If you got this mail as a forward, subscribe to ZESTCaste by sending a blank mail to zestcaste-subscr...@yahoogroups.com OR, if you have a Yahoo! ID, by visiting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join/ Also have a look at our sister list, ZESTMedia: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:zestcaste-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:zestcaste-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zestcaste-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ZESTCaste] Varna and Jati: Social Structure of Hindus
Add one point. Even if varna would be based on supposed merit it is still an atrocious concept. What can you imagiNE? taking a human baby after birth, and saying that this one is qualified to be a brahman, this one a ksatriya, and so on, and oh yes, if he is going to be a shudra he shouldn't be taught to read, if he is qualified to be a ksatriya he should not learn music and tenderness.and so on. I'm saying he specifically because that is how they think. In any case, such a division of the human essence is unacceptable today to anyone who can think. Gail On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Shailesh Arya shailbr...@yahoo.co.inwrote: Your definition of varna contradicts the one that is used in the Hindu scriptures. There are logical flaws in it. Firstly, your argument that such diverse occupations did not exist back then. Well, it did. There were blacksmiths, goldsmiths, farmers, carpenters, potters, priests etc etc. And in fact, many of these professions were not a monopoly of a single varna. For example, there were farmers who were not necessarily vaisya or sudra, but also Brahmins and Kshatriya. Buddhist tales from jatakas and other ancient books, mention stories of Brahmins who were hunters! So, certainly varna is not taken in the occupation sense even in the earlier works. Second flaw is related to women. Certainly, women were an oppressed and unequal lot in the Indo-Aryan societies. This means that women had no right to practice any profession (except perhaps the Sudra women), which is also evident from the Hindu scriptures. But we all know that women were also classified as Brahmin women, Sudra women etc. Wouldn't Brahmin woman be an oxymoron in an Indo-Aryan society? Its like saying woman priest, even when women were not allowed to be priests. There is another possibility that the women could have been identify with the caste ( profession, allegedly) of their husbands or fathers. But since women were not allowed to marry at their own will according to Hindu scriptures, this would mean that the system was strictly based on birth only, not the alleged occupation/profession. The last logical fallacy is that the caste groups live in huge numbers in restricted areas, and have been doing so since ages, in the rural areas. For example, there were exclusive villages for Brahmins. Were all the Brahmins in that village priests? Then who were the devotees (customers)? Yadavs numbered in thousands in accumulated areas within villages. How could all of them be shepherds? It has been shown already by scholars that even in the historical times, caste groups did not necessarily practice the occupation they were assigned to (by the Brahmins). In fact, almost 60% of them were almost always farmers or related to agriculture. The last logical fallacy is that no single clan could have practiced a single profession. For example, how could all the Yadavs be shepherds in the Yadav kingdom? Where did they eat their wheat from? How did they manage carpentry and other necessary crafts? There were exclusive Brahmin villages. How could all Brahmins be priests? If all Brahmins in a village were priests, then who were the devotees (customers)? So, it is impossible for one caste to practice only one profession. And historically also it has been shown that no single caste was ever restricted to a single profession. Majority of the castes were involved in agriculture either directly or indirectly. There are three divisions of the Hindus; divisions into occupations, division into clan/tribe names, division into varna. The task of the Brahmins was to map these different sets with each other. For example, the clan name Rajput was assigned the varna Kshatriya (from their original designation as Mlecchas when the white Hunas first started invading India). Jat was assigned the varna Sudra, even though their occupation was mostly farming. And similarly, many clans were just randomly mapped onto the four varnas. Of course, this wasn't random literally. It depended on the influence and power of these clans. Some clans had ambiguous varna status, like the Patels, Gujjars etc. Therefore, the apologists of caste are wrong in their justification of castes as a mere 'division of occupations'. Dr. Ambedkar was perfectly right in calling caste system as a division of laborers instead of division of labor. Varna system was strictly based ethnicities/race/lineage. In other words, it has always been birth based; or at least meant to be based on birth because there were always exceptions.
Re: [ZESTCaste] Varna and Jati: Social Structure of Hindus
Seems a typical justification. open, appalling and utterly wrong. Gail On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Siddhartha Kumar mailsiddharth...@gmail.com wrote: http://pankajaindia.blogspot.com/2009/03/varna-and-jati-social-structure-of.html Tuesday, March 24, 2009 Varna and Jati: Social Structure of Hindus INFORMATION OVERLOAD? Get all ZESTCaste mails sent out in a span of 24 hours in a single mail. Subscribe to the daily digest version by sending a blank mail to zestmedia-dig...@yahoogroups.com, OR, if you have a Yahoo! Id, change your settings at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/join/ PARTICIPATE:- On this list you can share caste news, discuss caste issues and network with like-minded anti-caste people from across India and the world. Just write to zestcaste@yahoogroups.com TELL FRIENDS TO SIGN UP:- If you got this mail as a forward, subscribe to ZESTCaste by sending a blank mail to zestcaste-subscr...@yahoogroups.com OR, if you have a Yahoo! ID, by visiting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join/ Also have a look at our sister list, ZESTMedia: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:zestcaste-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:zestcaste-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zestcaste-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ZESTCaste] Varna and Jati: Social Structure of Hindus
p.s. I don't know if it's even worth refuting something like this, but I'm attaching an article I wrote in response to the similar nonsense being published by the Hindu Council of UK. The Valmikis who were supposed to have given a statement in the Hindu council report (also attached) have apparently since refuted this and said it was a lie. gail Moderator's Note: The Hindu Council pdf file and Gail Omvedt's response can be accessed in the 'Files' section of this group. http://pankajaindia.blogspot.com/2009/03/varna-and-jati-social-structure-of.html Tuesday, March 24, 2009 Varna and Jati: Social Structure of Hindus INFORMATION OVERLOAD? Get all ZESTCaste mails sent out in a span of 24 hours in a single mail. Subscribe to the daily digest version by sending a blank mail to zestmedia-dig...@yahoogroups.com, OR, if you have a Yahoo! Id, change your settings at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/join/ PARTICIPATE:- On this list you can share caste news, discuss caste issues and network with like-minded anti-caste people from across India and the world. Just write to zestcaste@yahoogroups.com TELL FRIENDS TO SIGN UP:- If you got this mail as a forward, subscribe to ZESTCaste by sending a blank mail to zestcaste-subscr...@yahoogroups.com OR, if you have a Yahoo! ID, by visiting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join/ Also have a look at our sister list, ZESTMedia: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:zestcaste-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:zestcaste-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zestcaste-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ZESTCaste] Every party has one: a Brahmin drafting canny political strategy
Interesting, but Sharad Pawar manages without them. Possibly Chiranjivi also but I don't know him personally. as for Mayawati, who is using who is the question. Chanakya was an almost mythical figure anyway. Gail On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 7:51 PM, Siddhartha Kumar mailsiddharth...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20090330fname=Cover+Storysid=1 Magazine| Mar 30, 2009 brahmins in politics INFORMATION OVERLOAD? Get all ZESTCaste mails sent out in a span of 24 hours in a single mail. Subscribe to the daily digest version by sending a blank mail to zestmedia-dig...@yahoogroups.com, OR, if you have a Yahoo! Id, change your settings at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/join/ PARTICIPATE:- On this list you can share caste news, discuss caste issues and network with like-minded anti-caste people from across India and the world. Just write to zestcaste@yahoogroups.com TELL FRIENDS TO SIGN UP:- If you got this mail as a forward, subscribe to ZESTCaste by sending a blank mail to zestcaste-subscr...@yahoogroups.com OR, if you have a Yahoo! ID, by visiting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join/ Also have a look at our sister list, ZESTMedia: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:zestcaste-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:zestcaste-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zestcaste-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ZESTCaste] The Battle over Hindu History
Dear Shailesh, You should know something before you get angry. Wendy Doniger is an American woman, who did the Penguin translations of the Rg Veda and Manusmriti (which all uppercastes here hate), as well as numerous other books. In fact there are a lot of scholars outside of India who are waging important battles against Hindutva and Hindu interpretations, for instance Michael Witzel of Harvard, Martha Nussbaum and others. You might disagree with something of their interpretations, I don't know because this book is just published and I haven't yet read it. I have read some of her others. Read before you judge. What you are quoting from is not an excerpt from the book but a summary of the book by someone on this on faith panelists group, whoever they are. And if you read further you'll see how angry some of the hindus are. Read something carefully before you react. Of course dalits should write their own history. But it is fallacious to say that only dalits can do it, that nondalits cannot do it, the same as it is to say a woman cannot write about men or vice versa. Why not say only a dalit woman can write the ideal history you want? Nor will dalits every be able to write their own history well until they have assimilated critically the best of what is written by the existing available historians. Where did Ambedkar or Phule start? Most often from material made available to them by foreigners during the colonial period. Similarly today, some of the best critical stuff on India is written by people (including Indians) outside India. If I write something I don't expect it to be the final word on anything. People should use it to go ahead. Same with Wendy Doniger, same with Michael Witzel and all. Gail On 3/22/09, Shailesh Arya shailbr...@yahoo.co.in wrote: Just another attempt by a non-dalit to re-write the history of the dalits. So it should be ignored. So long as non-dalits keep writing the history of dalits, it can never be free from biases, prejudiced notions and the lack of experience of being a dalit.. It should be discarded by the dalits. One day a dalit will re-discover our history, the initiation of which was done by Dr. Ambedkar himself. Till that day we should discard any attempt by non-dalits to write our history. We are not dogs, as this author calls us, so why should others always write our history? 99% of the historical material published in India regarding the dalits and their history is written by Brahmins or other upper castes (my estimates), and therefore any article on dalit history always carries the sense of pity for our glorious people, a sense of contempt even when the author purports to write words of empathy for our people. It can never be free of these qualities until a dalit writes his own history. This author is just another non-dalit writing our history, so we should ignore his articles. Subject: [ZESTCaste] The Battle over Hindu History To: zestcaste zestcaste@yahoogroups.com zestcaste%40yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, 20 March, 2009, 9:09 PM http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/wendy_doniger/2009/03/the_battle_over_hindu_history.html Professor of the History of Religions, University of Chicago’s Divinity School Wendy DonigerDoniger’s research and teaching center on Hinduism and mythology. Her courses in Hinduism cover mythology, literature, law, gender and ecology. The Battle over Hindu History INFORMATION OVERLOAD? Get all ZESTCaste mails sent out in a span of 24 hours in a single mail. Subscribe to the daily digest version by sending a blank mail to zestmedia-dig...@yahoogroups.com, OR, if you have a Yahoo! Id, change your settings at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/join/ PARTICIPATE:- On this list you can share caste news, discuss caste issues and network with like-minded anti-caste people from across India and the world. Just write to zestcaste@yahoogroups.com TELL FRIENDS TO SIGN UP:- If you got this mail as a forward, subscribe to ZESTCaste by sending a blank mail to zestcaste-subscr...@yahoogroups.com OR, if you have a Yahoo! ID, by visiting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join/ Also have a look at our sister list, ZESTMedia: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:zestcaste-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:zestcaste-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zestcaste-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ZESTCaste] The Battle over Hindu History
p.s. I am copying below part of one of the angry reactions of some Hindutva people in the U.S. to the book: One should understand the context of the recent attacks on Churches in Mangalore, India. The New Life Church goes around distributing booklets containing highly objectionable articles against the hindus and hinduism and urging people to convert. While violence cannot be justified, some hindus took exception to these booklets and broke the glass windows of a few churches. No one was killed or even seriously injured. Imagine some muslims or hindus doing a very similar thing in the US against the Christians and I can bet that those people will be killed, and their places of worship destroyed. There are probably more churches in India than even the US and the churches own more land in India than any other organization except for the Indian army. It goes to show how tolerant the Indian public has been to accomodate other faiths. There are 150 million muslims living in India with the potential to be the next president, superstar heroes in Bollywood, Oscar winning music directors, billionaires, etc - Hindus in Pakistan cannot even dream to achieve for instance. What happened in Kandhamal where a lot of christian homes were burnt and the people booted out of their homes also was a result of christian marxists (oxymoron?) killing a hindu religious leader along with a few of his followers including a woman in broad daylight for resisting conversions.** Now this fellow is talking nonsense. a lot of christian homes burnt and people booted out of their homes because a christian marxist killed a hindu religious leader!!? -- well there have been atrocities in the U.S. but nothing like this for a long time. The Hindus in Pakistan cannot make such achievements partly because they are dalits, partly because Pakistan is still a dictatorship. There is open propagation of atheism in the U.S., attacks on Christianity (such as a pissChrist art a few years back) and books don't get banned because it will hurt someone's religious sentiments. On 3/24/09, Gail Omvedt kranti...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Shailesh, You should know something before you get angry. Wendy Doniger is an American woman, who did the Penguin translations of the Rg Veda and Manusmriti (which all uppercastes here hate), as well as numerous other books. In fact there are a lot of scholars outside of India who are waging important battles against Hindutva and Hindu interpretations, for instance Michael Witzel of Harvard, Martha Nussbaum and others. You might disagree with something of their interpretations, I don't know because this book is just published and I haven't yet read it. I have read some of her others. Read before you judge. What you are quoting from is not an excerpt from the book but a summary of the book by someone on this on faith panelists group, whoever they are. And if you read further you'll see how angry some of the hindus are. Read something carefully before you react. Of course dalits should write their own history. But it is fallacious to say that only dalits can do it, that nondalits cannot do it, the same as it is to say a woman cannot write about men or vice versa. Why not say only a dalit woman can write the ideal history you want? Nor will dalits every be able to write their own history well until they have assimilated critically the best of what is written by the existing available historians. Where did Ambedkar or Phule start? Most often from material made available to them by foreigners during the colonial period. Similarly today, some of the best critical stuff on India is written by people (including Indians) outside India. If I write something I don't expect it to be the final word on anything. People should use it to go ahead. Same with Wendy Doniger, same with Michael Witzel and all. Gail On 3/22/09, Shailesh Arya shailbr...@yahoo.co.in wrote: Just another attempt by a non-dalit to re-write the history of the dalits. So it should be ignored. So long as non-dalits keep writing the history of dalits, it can never be free from biases, prejudiced notions and the lack of experience of being a dalit.. It should be discarded by the dalits. One day a dalit will re-discover our history, the initiation of which was done by Dr. Ambedkar himself. Till that day we should discard any attempt by non-dalits to write our history. We are not dogs, as this author calls us, so why should others always write our history? 99% of the historical material published in India regarding the dalits and their history is written by Brahmins or other upper castes (my estimates), and therefore any article on dalit history always carries the sense of pity for our glorious people, a sense of contempt even when the author purports to write words of empathy for our people. It can never be free of these qualities until a dalit writes his own history. This author is just another
Re: [ZESTCaste] Award for Nikam
Hi, Siddarth, This is all so bloody political. (excuse the language). My mother-in-law, also a freedom fighter, was there; the stage was crowded with politicians, and the only concession given to freedom fighters was that they were allowed to enter the hall. And these people (the Undale group) are relatives of the family!! gail http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Mumbai/Award_for_Nikam/articleshow/4157610.cms Award for Nikam 20 Feb 2009, 0332 hrs IST, TNN
Re: [ZESTCaste] 'Remove anti-Dalit references from Hindu scriptures'
I don't think they should remove them. They should stay there so that people can learn just how evil these guys are! See Wendy Doniger's translations of Rig Veda and Manusmriti (published by Penguin). If they are removed it will only provide more legitimation to make dalits and bahujans think of themselves as Hindus and give a boost to Brahmanism, jai bhim jai joti Gail http://www.theindianherald.com/2009/02/remove-anti-dalit-references-from.html Tuesday, February 17, 2009 'Remove anti-Dalit references from Hindu scriptures'
[ZESTCaste] Movement against rape of Dalit woman in Parbhani
Shramik Mukti Dal February 13, 2009 Gautam Buddha Nagar, Alibag: Yesterday at Sadegaon in Parbhani taluka a Dalit woman in police custody poured kerosene over her body and burned herself. This peasant woman is on the verge of death. That such a thing should happen in what used to be a democratic state is shocking.The inaugural session of the Shramik Mukti Dal conference condemned in harsh language the goondas and police who participated in such an atrocity. It demanded that along with taking strong legal action against all of these, those in the state administration whose thinking nourishes such atrocities should be expelled and the administration should be cleaned up and made humane. If action is not immediately begun on this, the conference resolution also warned that a strong movement would be started. That such a thing should happen The Shramik Mukti Dal conference began yesterday in Menusheth's house near Alibag. Three hundred representatives from nine districts were present at the delegates' session today. The three day conference began today at 10 AM with revolutionary songs. It will conclude with an open meeting at 3 PM on Sunday, 15 February 2009. The future movements under the leadership of the Shramik Mukti Dal will be decided on at the conference and announced in the open meeting. The delegates' conference will review the last 25 years of development of the Shramik Mukti Dal. The Shramik Mukti Dal has given leadership to effective movements on issues of equal water distribution for all families dependent on agriculture including the landless; the developmental rehabilitation of dam evictees according to the principle of first rehabilitation then the dam; peoples' right to national wealth such as wind in regard to windmills; peoples' special economic zones (SEZs); and peoples' alternatives to polluting energy projects. The movements decided in the conference will give a crucial turn to future movements in Maharashtra and at the national level.
Re: [ZESTCaste] Cropping the words
This is stupid. Some people in Mumbai held a (small) demonstration in the name of slumdwellers saying that Slumdog millionaire is an insult to slumdwellers. I would say the demonstration is an insult to dogs, who are generally much more loyal than people. Gail p.s. when I first saw this mail I thought it was the caste people barbers objecting. I guess they have more sense. Gail On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 8:23 PM, Siddhartha Kumar mailsiddharth...@gmail.com wrote: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Entertainment/Cropping_the_words_/articleshow/4104461.cms Cropping the words 10 Feb 2009, hrs IST
Re: [ZESTCaste] Cropping the words
I should add, you have to deal with the reality not the name. Does anyone thing Harry Potter made pots? On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Gail Omvedt kranti...@gmail.com wrote: This is stupid. Some people in Mumbai held a (small) demonstration in the name of slumdwellers saying that Slumdog millionaire is an insult to slumdwellers. I would say the demonstration is an insult to dogs, who are generally much more loyal than people. Gail p.s. when I first saw this mail I thought it was the caste people barbers objecting. I guess they have more sense. Gail http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Entertainment/Cropping_the_words_/articleshow/4104461.cms Cropping the words 10 Feb 2009, hrs IST
Re: [ZESTCaste] Shalinitai summoned for derogatory remarks against Dr Ambedkar
Good luck. Incidentally, she was his mistress, and marrying her was for those days a revolutionary act. She's not lived up to it. Her politics are stupid, pro-Maratha, and western Maharashtra Marathas are either stupid or arrogant (Kunbis have reservation according to Mandal commission, and all western India Marathas were originally Kunbis -- if they don't want to admit that they're farmers (kunbi = kulwadi = peasnt) then they don't deserve anything. being derogatory to Ambedkar is only an offshoot of all of this. You have a history, and then try to overcompensate by becoming more Brahman than the Brahmans (she was also at this recent Brahman maha-adhivesan in Pune) and more Maratha than the Marathas. Incidentally, Sheila Dixit, the CM of Delhi who went to that program, is actually a Sikh married to a Brahman. A devout Sikh, I'm told. She must really have been furious when she found out how reactionary it was. And, finally, I would advise all women, in this group or not, to have a good male guard dog (like a German shepherd etc) if they're worried about being attackied. Ours would have torn those RSS goons in mangalore apart. in solidarity, Gail http://www.indopia.in/India-usa-uk-news/latest-news/497027/National/1/20/1 Shalinitai summoned for derogatory remarks against Dr Ambedkar Published: February 7,2009 Aurangabad , Feb 7
Re: [ZESTCaste] Tirupati Balaji temple to admit Dalits in Vedic schools
Dalits should learn the Vedas (on the grounds of, know your enemy) but not from Bahmans, from some respectable scholars. I recommend Wendy Doniger's translation of the Rg Veda (and Manusmriti). I think the first is under the name of Wendy Doniger O'Flaherty. Otherwise, the best scholar of Sanskrit I know is Michael Witzel of Harvard. Leave aside temple priests, no scholars of Sanskrit in Indian universities are to be trusted. Also, it does not good to admit Dalits to temples as long as the money they pay goes into the hands of a Brahman-controlled temple administration. In Maharashtra, we have had a Badwe hatao (through out the badwes, ie the priests of the Pandharpur temple of Vitthala) for a long time. Vitthala, I believe, was originally a goddess, by the way. I have had a Tamil woman scholar at Shimla say the same thing to me about the Tirupati deity. (I know that the Buddhist argument is that it is originally a Boddhisattva or Buddha, but that is another story, perhaps it became that later). in solidarity, Gail http://www.zeenews.com/states/2009-02-05/505066news.html Tirupati Balaji temple to admit Dalits in Vedic schools Hyderabad, Feb 05:
Re: [ZESTCaste] Is caste an economic development vehicle? (Opinion)
Dear C. Ramesh, Regarding brahmanisation and brahmanism: it is not the responsiblity of dalits alone (or whoever you mean by you') to figure out what this is, to analyze it, it is the responsibility of all concerned with the future of India (for that matter south Asia) regards, Gail Omvedt On 2/1/09, C Ramesh ramesh_del...@yahoo.co.in wrote: Sir, I am afraid, you have completely missed the point. Nowhere did I say that people should be forcibly relocated elsewhere. I shall explain this point later. You have referred to something called brahminism/brahmanisation. We have been hearing about this for a long time, yet we do not know what it means. Does it mean, that human beings whose caste is 'brahmin' continue to be alive? So what is 'brahminsation', and how it is a bad influence on society needs to be clarified. Besides, what all steps need to be taken to erase this 'brahmanisation' also needs to be listed out.
Re: [ZESTCaste] Is caste an economic development vehicle? (Opinion)
Greetings, friends, If there is any connection at all of caste with genetics, the advantage of merit would be with Dalits and other oppressed classes. Consider two groups, B and D. Assume there is no interbreeding between them (this assumption is somewhat questionable, but let that go for the moment). Group D is subjected to harsh rigors, mental and physical; Group B has all the advantages of health care, survival privileges, etc. Which group according to Mendelian genetics and Darwinism, would be superior (physically and mentally). Group D, of course. The weak in this group would die off, and the physically strong and intelligent would survive (intelligence is a survival characteristic). Among the Bs, the weak and stupid among the Bs would survive as well as the rest. Therefore the gene pool of Ds is superior. throw that in their faces, in solidarity Gail On 1/27/09, Shailesh Arya shailbr...@yahoo.co.in wrote: I am not aware of any such killing of people in TN. Forgive me for my ignorance. But I definitely do not mean the extinction of people to end their suffering. Extinction of castes, is what I mean. Just like how there are no castes in Europe, Americas, Australia, China etc, there should be no castes in India also for any kind of real human as well as economic development to begin. --- On Sun, 25/1/09, C Ramesh ramesh_del...@yahoo.co.inramesh_del123%40yahoo.co.in wrote: From: C Ramesh ramesh_del...@yahoo.co.in ramesh_del123%40yahoo.co.in Subject: Re: [ZESTCaste] Is caste an economic development vehicle? (Opinion) To: ZESTCaste@yahoogroups.com ZESTCaste%40yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, 25 January, 2009, 2:34 PM The author claims that If India has to prosper and develop, castes have to be obliterated completely. I hope it does not mean obliteration of a particular set of people as is happening in TN.
Re: [ZESTCaste] A Book on Kandhamal to reveal the truth behind violence
What I have heard is that there is a Gujarat-Orissa connection. (hard to get a reservation on the Ahmedabad-Puri express). Lots of Gujaratis have investments in mines in Orissa. They are building huge houses in the forests. They have been funding the local RSS. All this needs to be checked out, of course. Gail On 1/24/09, Siddhartha Kumar mailsiddharth...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.orissadiary.com/Shownews.asp?id=10352 A Book on Kandhamal to reveal the truth behind violence Saturday, January 24, 2009 Report by Rashmi r Parida; New Delhi: INFORMATION OVERLOAD? Get all ZESTCaste mails sent out in a span of 24 hours in a single mail. Subscribe to the daily digest version by sending a blank mail to zestmedia-dig...@yahoogroups.com, OR, if you have a Yahoo! Id, change your settings at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/join/ PARTICIPATE:- On this list you can share caste news, discuss caste issues and network with like-minded anti-caste people from across India and the world. Just write to zestcaste@yahoogroups.com TELL FRIENDS TO SIGN UP:- If you got this mail as a forward, subscribe to ZESTCaste by sending a blank mail to zestcaste-subscr...@yahoogroups.com OR, if you have a Yahoo! ID, by visiting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join/ Also have a look at our sister list, ZESTMedia: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:zestcaste-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:zestcaste-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zestcaste-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ZESTCaste] Brahmin convention seeks inclusive act for society
Hello, friends, My Sakal issue records several nastier resolutions, e.g. reservations only on economic grounds. And Sheila Dixit must have been rather unhappy being there; she's a Sikh (married to a Dixit) and I'm told a devout Sikh. Maybe regretting stupid Congress politics of trying to woo Brahmans in solidarity, Gail On 1/25/09, Siddhartha Kumar mailsiddharth...@gmail.com wrote: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Pune/Brahmin_convention_seeks_inclusive_act_for_society/articleshow/4027795.cms Brahmin convention seeks inclusive act for society 25 Jan 2009, 0323 hrs IST, TNN PUNE: Stressing on the need for mutual respect among all communities, the fifth All-India Multilingual Brahmin Convention, which was inaugurated here on Sunday, passed a resolution to frame an all-inclusive act for the welfare of all communities. Various other resolutions on socio-economic-political issues were also passed. Chief minister of Delhi, Sheila Dikshit, attended the event. The two-day convention received a massive response with over 50,000 Brahmins from across the country participating in the event. At the inaugural ceremony, the participants received blessings from the Shakaracharya of Kanchi, Kamakoti Jayendra Saraswati, who also inaugurated the convention. Baba Ramdev, Pejawar Peethdishwar Vishveshteertha Swami and Gurunath Munglemaharaj addressed the gathering too. Yoga guru B K S Iyengar, MP Suresh Kalmadi, Suresh Prabhu and Moreshwar Vinayak Ghaisas guruji were present on the dais. In a resolution, the delegates pointed out, From the humanitarian point of view, it is necessary to have mutual respect among all communities. Uttering insulting words towards any community is deplorable and therefore, an all-inclusive act should be framed for the welfare of all communities. The organising committee also stated that communities were witnessing destructive ill feelings towards each other and these feelings are taking the destructive path of terrorism. Addressing the gathering, Dikshit urged Brahmins to become agents of change. Brahmins have shaped the culture and thinking of society for many decades and also advised rulers about their responsibilities towards the welfare of the state. Brahmins should continue doing this to create a happy world, she said. Stressing the need to spread the messages from the Vedas, Jayendra Saraswati said, The lessons from the Vedas should be the driving force for world peace, and to eliminate evil thoughts and bring prosperity. In his speech, Baba Ramdev appealed to Brahmins to stay away from habits like chewing tobacco, consuming alcohol and eating meat. Kalmadi said Brahmins should focus on creating employment.
Re: [ZESTCaste] Brahmins talk tough on poll eve
oh yes, the venue of the conference was called Chanakyanagar On 1/25/09, Siddhartha Kumar mailsiddharth...@gmail.com wrote: http://in.news.yahoo.com/48/20090125/804/tnl-brahmins-talk-tough-on-poll-eve_1.html Brahmins talk tough on poll eve Sun, Jan 25 03:53 AM The community indicates it is no longer loyal to a single party at the two-day Bhoogaon convention The fifth Bahubhashik Brahmin Mahaadhiveshan, where around 50,000 Brahmins from across the country gathered on Saturday, at Bhoogaon -
Re: [ZESTCaste] Haryana raises income limit of OBC creamy layer
Everyone should protest. If you remove the creamy layer you get only skim milk (bad pun?) in this case, the lack of trained leadership which every community needs. You don't find any such nonsense in affirmative action programs elsewhere. Another great gift owed to the Supreme Court, which introduced the whole thing in the first place. Gail On 1/24/09, Siddhartha Kumar mailsiddharth...@gmail.com wrote: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Lucknow/The_elephant_rides_on_cross_voting/articleshow/4023788.cms Haryana raises income limit of OBC creamy layer Chandigarh | Friday, Jan 23 2009 IST
Re: [ZESTCaste] Arrested, Muthalik bats for BJP, he shared stage with political bigwigs day after attack
All right, girls in pubs should not be attacked. What about dalits? Here is the report from Sakal on the first day of the Brahman conference (translated from Marathi) Make the Country a Spiritual Superpower: Swami Ramdevbaba: the call to the Society (samaj) at the occasion of the Inauguration of the Brahman Maha-Adhiveshanacya (Great Conference) Chanakyanagari (Pune), 24 January: We are the devotees (upaasak) of the ancient Indian culture which was the supreme prosperity (paramotkarsh) of all knowledge. According to the spirituality of the Vedas, Upanisads, Brahmans have done for centuries the work of making the country cultured (susanskrit). In order to re-establish our departed glory and make the country a spiritual superpower, all Brahmans should come together. This was the call given on Saturday by Swami Ramdevbaba, speaking at the inauguration of the fifth multilingual Brahman great conference. On the stage were sitting the Shankaracharya Jayendra Saraswati of the Kanchi Kamkoti pith, Shankaracharya Vishveshatirth of the Pejaavar Pith, Delhi's Chief Minister Sheila Dixit, Goa's chief minister Digambar Kamat, MP Suresh Kalmadi, former central minster Suresh Prabhu, yogacharya B.K. S. Ayyangar, MLA Girish Bapat, Mohan Joshi, Ranjitsingh Mohite Patil, Sudhakar Paricaarak, mahapor (Pune city mayor) Rajalaskmi Bhosle, Gurunathji Mungale Maharaj, Kalidas Thigale, the Conference president Moreshwar Ghasas Guruji and others. On behalf of Ramdevbaba, Sheila Dixit (politics), Kishor Mishra (cultural), Padmaji Chitale (agricultural), Jayant Tinaekar (social) and others were honoured with the brahmakirti award. Ramdevbaba said, From ancient times Brahmans have given a great gift (yogadan) in Indian culture. From the Vedas and Upanisads, through various platforms Brahmans have an important role in the brilliant history of educating the world. Howver, because our ancestors were great does not mean that we are great. Brahmans have to show this [greatness[ through their actions. Dixit said, For a thousand years Brahmans living as bhikshus did the work of guidance in building Indian culture. Vinit Kubere gave the introduction, and Mangesh Waghmare guided the discussion. *Resolutions Passed:* - The recognition of Chatrapati Shivaji Maharaja should be recognized as a Rastrapurush and condemnation of those who do not respect him; - No demand for reservations - Creation of cultural and business (vyavasayak) institutions to avoid damage to the samaj; - The supremacy of marriage within one's own caste' - A feeling of respect for all castes and legal protection for this; - A new perusal (punaraavalokan) of the 1957 land reform law; - Voting for the parties which give predominance to the welfare of the community (samaj) [I think the reservations are fairly self-explanatory; just read samaj as brahman samaj; there was another report which mentioned reservations only on an economic basis] On 1/28/09, Siddhartha Kumar mailsiddharth...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.indianexpress.com/news/arrested-muthalik-bats-for-bjp-he-shared-stage-with-political-bigwig.../416002/ Arrested, Muthalik bats for BJP, he shared stage with political bigwigs day after attack Suman K Jha Posted online: Jan 28, 2009 at 0305 hrs New Delhi : INFORMATION OVERLOAD? Get all ZESTCaste mails sent out in a span of 24 hours in a single mail. Subscribe to the daily digest version by sending a blank mail to zestmedia-dig...@yahoogroups.com, OR, if you have a Yahoo! Id, change your settings at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/join/ PARTICIPATE:- On this list you can share caste news, discuss caste issues and network with like-minded anti-caste people from across India and the world. Just write to zestcaste@yahoogroups.com TELL FRIENDS TO SIGN UP:- If you got this mail as a forward, subscribe to ZESTCaste by sending a blank mail to zestcaste-subscr...@yahoogroups.com OR, if you have a Yahoo! ID, by visiting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join/ Also have a look at our sister list, ZESTMedia: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:zestcaste-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:zestcaste-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zestcaste-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ZESTCaste] No awe..... some shock
I felt both awe and I was among those crying about Obama's victory. Anyone who had anything to do with the struggles of the 1960s and after in the U.S. would. about Sanjay Dutt, you missed a very important thing. Sanjay said that Priya Datt had no right to use the name because as a girl she ought to take the name of her husband. And Renuka Chaudhury leaped in to say, who are you to tell us what name to use?! regards, Gail On 1/23/09, Siddhartha Kumar mailsiddharth...@gmail.com wrote: http://shobhaade.blogspot.com/2009/01/no-awe-some-shock.html Thursday, January 22, 2009 No awe. some shock Obama disappointed me during his moment of glory. It started with the double fumble while taking the oath (Michelle's face was worth watching during those tense few seconds), and carried on from that point to a weak finale. Of course, the well -rehearsed speech had its moments (come on, if the President of the United States of America, with his team of speech writers can't get it right, who can?), but his crucial bhaashan lacked dum of the kind expected on such a historic occasion. I thought his rousing 'Yes, we can... address right after his nomination, was far more effective and stirring. Deconstructing this one, what was my take away?? Frankly, I don't really know. Apart from mentioning world religions (okay Hindoos, you count - but Buddhists and Sikhs obviously don't) and stressing on diversity (current buzz word internationally), I really don't understand what he was pushing. The only time he touched my heart was when he paid a tribute to American servicemen - that sounded genuine. But the ominous words , America in decline '' right at the start of the speech, were negative, even though they are true. Americans don't need to be reminded of that scenario at this point - and certainly not by a brand new President. His reference to his ancestors was not required, either. Did our former Dalit President keep harping on his roots? Never! Did Abdul Kalam talk about being a Muslim in a predominantly Hindu country? Never! Obama personalised his status by bringing his father into the speech (60 years ago, he would have been refused service at a restaurant). These sort of reminders cause pain and the world needs positive reinforcement rather than an opening up of old wounds. Obama resembled a sharply dressed news anchor, an Oscar's host, a show biz moghul.But that apart, I felt let down by his content. Now... let's see him in action. His time begins now! ** My jaw dropped listening to Sanjay Dutt - and more so - listening to Maanyata - holding forth on their political ambitions. There is a limit to the public's tolerance in such matters. Or ought to be. If Sanjay can claim with a straight face that he sees himself as a 'leader', not a politician, and insist he wants to 'serve the people' (pray tell us, how?), and those statements go unchallenged by an awestruck anchor (really Mahrukh!) sorry, but we disgrace ourselves in accepting his words at face value. Not just Sanjay, but any convicted individual must be debarred from contesting the elections. Ditto for illiterate candidates. Citizens have the right to push for these basic reforms before it is too late. As for sati savitree Maanyata's virtuous admission that she seeks her husband's permission before going out for coffee with her friends. wow!! she's come a long way - from pole dancing to political shamming. Shades of Eva Peron?? Maybe we deserve them both. Shall we distribute a few jadu ki jhappis in their honour?
Re: [ZESTCaste] Obamas bring colour to a Black and White world
Hello friends, It didn't start with the Obamas. Blacks began to proclaim their beauty in the 1960s (if not before!)The Obamas may become a creator of history but both Barack and Michelle are also products of a history, a very long one, a history in which whites as well as blacks participated. and of course Kancha is right about how deeply color prejudice is embedded in India. One difference betwen India and the U.S. here is that the indian elite has so far not faced up to this. metta, Gail On 1/23/09, Siddhartha Kumar mailsiddharth...@gmail.com wrote: http://ibnlive.in.com/news/obamas-bring-colour-to-a-black-and-white-world/83453-3.html Obamas bring colour to a Black and White world CNN-IBN
Re: [ZESTCaste] Gotras make OBC census impossible: RGI
The question about whether it means anything should answer itself, to anyone who knows India. The point about sample survey versus census is that census is already being done and it is less expensive to add one more question (and constitute the committees to classify the answers) than it would be to organize another survey like the NSS. On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 7:03 AM, C Ramesh ramesh_del...@yahoo.co.in wrote: A sample survey would be sufficient for that purpose. Hundred crore people giving their opinion is not going to serve any purpose, that too at massive public expense. Besides, even if people say that they belong to x, y or z caste, does it mean anything. For example, if a person says my caste is X as per current usage, is it supposed to prove something? People have n number of features, would it be possible to classify people according to their skin colour, height, weight, dress sense etc? --- On Fri, 16/1/09, Gail Omvedt kranti...@gmail.comkrantivir%40gmail.com wrote: From: Gail Omvedt kranti...@gmail.com krantivir%40gmail.com Subject: Re: [ZESTCaste] Gotras make OBC census impossible: RGI To: ZESTCaste@yahoogroups.com ZESTCaste%40yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, 16 January, 2009, 1:51 PM The purpose will be to get some idea of who we all are. If 5 lakh brahmans can meet in Pune and l l/2 lakh chitpavan brahmans (kokanastha brahmans, known popularly as ko-bra) can also meet, then at least it makes something clear. If enough people answer no caste or mixed caste then we also learn something, don't we? On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:15 AM, C Ramesh ramesh_del123@ yahoo.co. in wrote: A caste census will certainly enable one to know how many people belong to which caste. But what purpose will the information serve?
Re: [ZESTCaste] Gotras make OBC census impossible: RGI
The purpose will be to get some idea of who we all are. If 5 lakh brahmans can meet in Pune and l l/2 lakh chitpavan brahmans (kokanastha brahmans, known popularly as ko-bra) can also meet, then at least it makes something clear. If enough people answer no caste or mixed caste then we also learn something, don't we? On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:15 AM, C Ramesh ramesh_del...@yahoo.co.in wrote: A caste census will certainly enable one to know how many people belong to which caste. But what purpose will the information serve? --- On Tue, 13/1/09, Gail Omvedt kranti...@gmail.comkrantivir%40gmail.com wrote: From: Gail Omvedt kranti...@gmail.com krantivir%40gmail.com Subject: Re: [ZESTCaste] Gotras make OBC census impossible: RGI To: ZESTCaste@yahoogroups.com ZESTCaste%40yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 13 January, 2009, 5:57 AM Greetings friends, I don't think any caste census is impossible. the same was said for different reasons of impossibility earlier. why not do this: let people self-identify their caste, then have committees at the state (or even district level) to classify the castes into categories. if people want to say no caste or mixed then classify them that way (it will allow us to see exactly how many of really refuse to believe in caste or have intermarriages or whatever). pass it on, Gail http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Gotras_make_OBC_census_impossible/articleshow/2396144.cms Gotras make OBC census impossible: RGI 24 Sep 2007, 0019 hrs IST, Subodh Ghildiyal, TNN NEW DELHI:
Re: [ZESTCaste] Gotras make OBC census impossible: RGI
Greetings friends, I don't think any caste census is impossible. the same was said for different reasons of impossibility earlier. why not do this: let people self-identify their caste, then have committees at the state (or even district level) to classify the castes into categories. if people want to say no caste or mixed then classify them that way (it will allow us to see exactly how many of really refuse to believe in caste or have intermarriages or whatever). pass it on, Gail http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Gotras_make_OBC_census_impossible/articleshow/2396144.cms Gotras make OBC census impossible: RGI 24 Sep 2007, 0019 hrs IST, Subodh Ghildiyal, TNN NEW DELHI: INFORMATION OVERLOAD? Get all ZESTCaste mails sent out in a span of 24 hours in a single mail. Subscribe to the daily digest version by sending a blank mail to zestmedia-dig...@yahoogroups.com, OR, if you have a Yahoo! Id, change your settings at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/join/ PARTICIPATE:- On this list you can share caste news, discuss caste issues and network with like-minded anti-caste people from across India and the world. Just write to zestcaste@yahoogroups.com TELL FRIENDS TO SIGN UP:- If you got this mail as a forward, subscribe to ZESTCaste by sending a blank mail to zestcaste-subscr...@yahoogroups.com OR, if you have a Yahoo! ID, by visiting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join/ Also have a look at our sister list, ZESTMedia: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:zestcaste-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:zestcaste-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zestcaste-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ZESTCaste] Re: 'Hundred percent reservation in capital punishment'
Who do you mean by you people? and aren't those who put them in jail the ones who are exciting caste hatred? think about the second question, but please ANSWER the first, Gail Omvedt On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 8:12 AM, ramesh_del123 ramesh_del...@yahoo.co.inwrote: Another beautiful way to incite caste hatred in the society. Please keep it up. This is the way forward. You people can do similar research on the number of dalits/muslims/etc occupying seats in buses/trains/planes etc and then demand reservation in proportion. --- In ZESTCaste@yahoogroups.com ZESTCaste%40yahoogroups.com, Siddhartha Kumar mailsiddharth...@... wrote: http://kufr.blogspot.com/2009/01/hundred-percent-reservation-in- capital.html 7/1/09 'Hundred percent reservation in capital punishment' PATNA: It is unbelievable but irrefutable. That barring Kare Singh, out of 36 prisoners waiting on the gallows in Bihar's Bhagalpur Central Jail, 35 belong to OBCs, Dalits and Muslims. this news report (http://www1.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/236742.cms) goes on to say: Kare, a Bhumihar, is the lone exception. This caste has been categorised among forwards in the official list. He comes from Ramdiri village under Begusarai district. The list of 24 other condemned prisoners includes the names of Hariballabh Singh, Bhumi Mandal, Binod Mandal, Indradeo Mandal, Arjun Muni, Dukho Sharma, Jagdish Shahni, Shivesh Mandal, Baidyanath Sharma, Bindeshwari Mandal, Upendra Mandal, Jalim Mandal, Ramshagun Mahto, Singheshwar Rai, Binod Prasad, Mithilesh Thakur, Manoj Rai, Raghunath Shahni, Ashok Kumar Gupta, Prabhat Kumar Rai, Mahendra Yadav, Durga Mandal, Manoj Singh and Naresh Yadav are among those convicts who all come from the OBC group. Bir Kunwar Paswan, Krishna Mochi, Nandlal Mochi, Dharmendra Singh and Shobhit Chamar are among 5 convicts who come from dalit section of the society. Funo Shah, Md. Ehsan Shah, Sheikh Shamshul, Sheikh Gyash, Md. Gayasuddin Khan and Naushad Alam are among those 5 convicts who are Muslims. 5 dalits, 24 obcs, 5 muslims and one upper caste hindu. you could say the gallows are almost totally reserved for the non-brahminized sections of the country. i tried to find the original article (published in the hindi daily hindustan, a few years ago), on the study the report refers to, by prabhat kumar shandilya, without much success. but i did find another reference to the same study here: http://www.articlearchives.com/government-public- administration/government-bodies-offices/1780929-1.html Amid the intellectual debate over the justification for the capital punishment, Gaya-based human rights activist and PUCL member Prabhat Kumar Shandilya gave another twist to the very concept of death penalty. He pointed out that people belonging to only Dalit and lower castes, tribals and minorities are awarded death sentence and no culprit of upper caste ever went to the gallows after the Independence; with the only exception of Nathuram Godse and Narayan Apte, the killers of Mahatma Gandhi, and lastly Dhananjoy Chatterjee. Most of them were Dalits, tribals, lower caste people and minorities and belonged to the poor sections of the society, he said. It's like 100 per cent reservation for the lower castes and minorities to the gallows, lamented Shandilya, who some time back wrote to the President of India for a review of this discrimination. [emphasis mine]. nice to know that there's at least one public institution in india that doesn't worry about dilution of merit. please note: the title of this post is the title (translated from hindi, i guess) of the article by prabhat kumar shandilya- if anyone finds the article, please send me the link.
Re: [ZESTCaste] BSP men add to Mayawati's woes
remember, India Today is the most rightwing proHindutva weekly around Gail http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=24202sectionid=4issueid=86Itemid=1 BSP men add to Mayawati's woes Saurabh Shukla Lucknow, January 2, 2009 INFORMATION OVERLOAD? Get all ZESTCaste mails sent out in a span of 24 hours in a single mail. Subscribe to the daily digest version by sending a blank mail to zestmedia-dig...@yahoogroups.com, OR, if you have a Yahoo! Id, change your settings at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/join/ PARTICIPATE:- On this list you can share caste news, discuss caste issues and network with like-minded anti-caste people from across India and the world. Just write to zestcaste@yahoogroups.com TELL FRIENDS TO SIGN UP:- If you got this mail as a forward, subscribe to ZESTCaste by sending a blank mail to zestcaste-subscr...@yahoogroups.com OR, if you have a Yahoo! ID, by visiting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join/ Also have a look at our sister list, ZESTMedia: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:zestcaste-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:zestcaste-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zestcaste-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ZESTCaste] 'Mayawati feels Obama a kindered spirit'
Mayawati may differ from Obama but so what? If files have to be explained to her, what's wrong with that, if those who explain are honest. Obama had a Harvard education, she did not. It's great she wrote to him, I hope they meet soon. When I visited my daughter last in Brooklyn, the door of the apartment next to hers had a poster with a head of Obama, rays (like sun) coming out of his head, and the map of the world like a tilak on his forehead. ie people, especially African Americans, look at Obama much in the same way Dalits (I mean Chamars) look at Mayawati. A main difference between US and India is that in US a section of whites also were genuinely thrilled by his victory. Jai Bhim Jai Joti, Gail On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Siddhartha Kumar mailsiddharth...@gmail.com wrote: http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20081229/884/twl-mayawati-feels-obama-a-kindered-spir.html 'Mayawati feels Obama a kindered spirit' Mon, Dec 29 05:51 PM London, Dec 29 (IANS) Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Mayawati has been so inspired by the victory of Barack Obama that she has shot off a letter of congratulations to the US president-elect, a British newspaper reported. 'She feels Obama is a kindred spirit,' the Sunday Telegraph quoted an unnamed Maywati aide as saying. 'She was so thrilled that she sent him a message of congratulations.' The paper said Obama's success has reinforced Mayawati's belief in her greatness despite strong criticism of her style of functioning and her alleged failure to bring development to backward castes - her main constituency. 'Whereas he (Obama) has erased only a couple of centuries of discrimination, she wants to be known for wiping out a far longer legacy of bigotry if she becomes prime minister,' the paper said. It quoted Mayawati's former principal secretary P.L. Punia as saying she suffered from 'feudal trappings.' 'She terrorises her civil servants. She doesn't understand files on complex issues, they have to be explained to her verbally,' Punia said. The paper, however, said Mayawati's supporters liken her to Obama, while she pins her hopes of premiership on a hung parliament and Left support at the next general election.
Re: [ZESTCaste] 1st January ! The Battle of Bhima Koregaon
friends, never forget that there were also kunbi and muslim soldiers mentioned in the memorial raised at Bhima Koregaon in solidarity Gail On 12/30/08, Pardeep pardeepat...@yahoo.co.in wrote: Shaurya Din: 1 st Jan-The Battle of Bhima Koregaon It was not a just another battle. It was story of Self Respect, Esteem and fight against the Manusmriti. This Battle is very important in history as everyone knows that after this Battle PESHAVAI ends. This Battle was between the Regiment of Bombay Native Infantry and Peshava Soldiers. Bombay Native Infantry was headed by Capt. Francis Statin. It comprised of only 500 soldiers most of them were MAHAR by Caste. After walking down 27 Miles distance from Shirur to Bhima Koregaon in one day, MAHAR soldiers neither get rest nor get proper water/food. Battle started at the bank of Bhima River. Compared with MAHAR soldiers of Bombay Native Infantry; Peshava soldiers were huge in number (more than 25000). Battle was fought over more than 12 hrs on 1st Jan 1818. Battle ended not only with the Victory over Peshava but it became responsible for the end of Peshavai in Mahararshtra. This Battle was commemorated by an obelisk, known as the Koregaon Pillar (Vijay Stambh), which featured on the MAHAR Regiment crest until Indian Independence. Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar used to visit Bhima Koregaon (Shaurya Bhumi) every year on 1st January to pay homage to great MAHAR soldiers of The Bhima Koregaon Battle. Few of you may think in wrong way why to celebrate or remember the victory of British. But there is reason for everything! Every one knows that during the time period of Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj there was equal treatment for MAHAR soldiers as Chhatrapti was knowing the importance of MAHAR soldiers as they were great at battle field. But over the time; treatment changes in PESHAVAI. They were most of the time insulted and given dreadful treatment by the follower of Manusmriti. So we can say victory of Bhima Koregaon was victory of Self Respect and Esteem over the haughty, superior and arrogant SAVARNA. One step ahead we can suggest or request all of you that in remembrance of MAHAR Soldier who fought and died for Self Respect and Esteem in The Bhima Koregaon Battle we should celebrate 1st January as a SHAURYA DIN. http://www.flickr.com/photos/27315...@n02/ http://www.youtube.com/dalitjade http://dalitindia.blogspot.com/ Know Buddha, Know Life No Buddha, No Life..!
Re: [ZESTCaste] Chair to be set up after Mahatma Jyotiba Phule
The correct spelling is Joitiba, after the Maharashtrian peasant (nonBrahman) deity. Jyotiba is Brahmanic. Gail *** http://www.indopia.in/India-usa-uk-news/latest-news/458636/National/1/20/1 Chair to be set up after Mahatma Jyotiba Phule Published: December 20,2008 Jind , Dec 20 A chair would be set up in Kurukshetra University and aaposchowkaposwould be named after dalit icon Mahatma Jyotiba Phule, Haryana Chief Minister Bhupinder Singh Hooda announced today.
[ZESTCaste] Christmas, Mumbai, Orissa
Dear friends, Merry Christmas. Because Jesus was a social revolutionary and because Ambedkar burned the Manusmriti on this day in 1927 we may celebrate it as manavmukti din. but along with joy and celebration I wish we could all think about the following: ORISSA and MUMBAI Two major massacres have taken place in India recently. One received 24 hour television coverage for several days, not only in India but also in the U.S. The other has been nearly blanked out of the national and world press, let alone television, though it has gone on for months. One took place in the rich heart of Mumbai's Fort area, in the opulent Taj and Oberoi hotels and several nearby buildings; those targetted were the capitalist wealthy-- though the killed also included middle class and workers caught in the crossfire. The other has been buried in the jungles and fields of Orissa, Karnataka and Rajasthan, where Dalit Christians have had their homes for centuries. Muslim terrorism and Hindu terrorism. It might be more correct to call it Brahmanic, except that what has been shown in Orissa, Karnataka and Rajasthan is the ability of Brahmanism to conquer and warp the minds of Adivasis and OBCs -- not to mention Dalits themselves. Muslim terrorism is a subject of endless discussion, vows, bitterness, condemnation of the government. Hindu terrorism is hardly even admitted. Yet the RSS and various affiliates have been practising it on an awesome scale in the last months. Conversion is the theme, and Christians are targetted. In Orissa, the Hindutva forces were able to take advantage of longstanding hostilities between the dalit Panos and the adivasi Khonds. Large sections of the Panos have converted to Christianity. The Khonds, in contrast, have been wooed to think of themselves as convinced Hindus, and to see the Pano Christians as aliens inhabiting what should be their land. The fact that the Christians have become marginally better off, more educated, and with a new sense of pride, has exacerbated the tension. But what happened in the current attacks (some form of these has been going on for years, though the latest started in October) has no satisfactory explanation. Mobs of Hindus surrounded and burned the houses of Christians in countless villages, primarily in the district of the Khondmals, but elsewhere also. They were forced into the forest, told not to come back unless they became Hindu. Many were beaten and killed; women, including nuns, were raped. Priests and nuns were special targets, but among the raped was a mentally retarded nonChristian woman who had simply been living in a home provided by the Christians. Some have been forced to eat cowdung and other quaint methods of brahmanic penance or prayascitta, and had their heads shaven. The terror has continued for months, with police and state complicity. Dalit Christians have either been cowering and hiding in the forests, or shivering in refugee camps where they are told you can go home if you become Hindus. Attacks have also taken place in states such as Karnataka and Rajasthan. Elsewhere, when they are weak enough, Christians are also targetted, In Himachal Pradesh, for example, many have been called to the police station on charges of forced conversion; the intention was not to apply the conversion law which in any case cannot be enforced since almost never, anywhere in India, because there has never been evidence given to show force illegal inducement (aside from conviction and gaining a sense of self-respect) -- but rather to allow RSS goons an opportunity to beat them up. The total number of those expelled from their homes is approaching 50,000; and how many have been killed is not known.. the number seems to run into hundreds. Why has there been no mass protest to this? A fairly simple answer suggests itself: the leadership in the resistance has been with the Christian church and with their almost unconscious participation, the pogrom has been projected as one on Christians, not Dalits, let alone Indian citizens. Dalit resistance/protest has been minimal (aside from sympathy) perhaps for this reason. But this in turn has to be understood in terms of the fragmentation of caste. Dalits have protested in mass to attacks that are perceived as being on them; one case that immediately comes to mind is the uprisings all over Maharashtra following the Khairlanji slaughter. But this did not happen immediately, but only some months later – following a desecration of a statue of Ambedkar in Kanpur. The conclusion can only be that identification even among Dalits themselves is along very narrow lines, and may even be getting narrower. Those slaughtered and driven from their homes in Orissa are not seen as Dalits, let alone Indian citizens; maybe they are seen in Orissa as Panos-converted-to-Christianity. Orissa in any case has had few mass movements, but it seems clear that Dalits outside of Orissa do not identify with this
Re: [ZESTCaste] RESERVED FOR SUCCESS
There was an SMS passed from cellphone to cellphone on Obbama's victory, mainly among African-Americans: Rosa sat so Martin could walk. Martin walked so Obama could run. Obama ran so your children can fly.' Rosa is Rosa Parks, who initiated the Montgomery bus strike by refusing to sit in the back of the bus; she sat in front and was arrested. This led to a long bus strike in which African Americans walked and boyycotted buses; during that strike Martin Luther King rose to leadership. Gail On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 10:59 PM, Siddhartha Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Daily/skins/TOI/navigator.asp?Daily=TOIHlogin=defaultAW=1225819809359 RESERVED FOR SUCCESS Sudipta Sengupta | TNN Like many other youngsters even Srinu Dhaisettti wants to go to a premier institute for an MTech degree, work for a top notch multinational company and live a fulfilling life. And from where he stands today his dream still seems a little distant but not impossible like it was until two years ago. Born into a family that merely managed two square meals a day, lived in a crammed shelter and had never travelled beyond East Godavari district, Srinu was made to believe that big dreams were not meant for him. So despite a 73 per cent in his Class X board examination and then a 72 per cent in his Diploma from Andhra Polytechnic College, the pressure to provide financial support to the family took him to Chennai for a job with a meagre salary. My father is a weaver in Kattamuru (my home town) and earns as little as Rs. 5,000. My mother is a housewife and I also have a younger brother who is still in school. My sister had to drop out after Class VIII and is now married. With such a situation at home, I had to start earning soon so that I could fund my brother's education, says the 22-year-old who feels that an impressive academic record is not always enough to climb the ladder. While in Chennai, my colleagues first inspired me to study further so that I could take up a better job and earn even more. But the thought of not being able to supplement the family earnings for a while, stopped me from going for it. However, after a year I decided I would do my engineering and wrote the Engineering Common Entrance Test in 2007, he says. Today Srinu is part of the prestigious Jawaharlal Nehru Technological University, Hyderabad and is looking forward to a career in civil engineering. But the journey has not been easy. When I told my parents about my decision, they were very angry. I was sending home a few thousand rupees every month from Chennai and they knew if I gave the job up to study that extra earning would stop. And that meant more struggle for my parents to make ends meet, says the son who is sure to provide every comfort to his parents once he gets a better job. And not only his parents who later gave in to his demand, Srinu also thanks the quota system for being able to make it to JNTU which has helped him realise his dreams and work even harder to achieve them. Though I had ranked eighth in ECET I would not have managed a seat in the university because it had only three seats. So the Other Backward Classes (OBC) quota helped me get into the university and I am rather thankful to the government for providing us which such a privilege, says Srinu, who continues to supplement his family's income by teaching diploma students after college hours. Principal of JNTU, N.V. Ramana Rao, is proud of this one student. Had it not been for the quota facility, we would have lost talents like Srinu. Though he got a seat through the OBC quota he is now the second topper of his second year batch and I am sure he will do the college proud by becoming a successful man some day, he says. Meanwhile, Srinu has his eyes firmly fixed on his goal. My next target is an M-Tech from IITKharagpur. If I can achieve that I will feel that I have won the battle, he says.
Re: [ZESTCaste] Nepal: UN conducts training to help give excluded groups a voice
Can anyone tell me how I make contact with Dalit groups in Nepal? (for a friend) thanks, Gail On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 11:44 PM, http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=28629Cr=NEPALCr1= Nepal: UN conducts training to help give excluded groups a voice INFORMATION OVERLOAD? Get all ZESTCaste mails sent out in a span of 24 hours in a single mail. Subscribe to the daily digest version by sending a blank mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], OR, if you have a Yahoo! Id, change your settings at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/join/ PARTICIPATE:- On this list you can share caste news, discuss caste issues and network with like-minded anti-caste people from across India and the world. Just write to zestcaste@yahoogroups.com TELL FRIENDS TO SIGN UP:- If you got this mail as a forward, subscribe to ZESTCaste by sending a blank mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] OR, if you have a Yahoo! ID, by visiting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join/ Also have a look at our sister list, ZESTMedia: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTMedia/Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ZESTCaste] Fwd: REQUEST: India dalit documentaries
The most wellknown recent documentary is India Untouched; and there was an old but very good documentary by an Andhra woman on Ambedkar, Gail On 10/4/08, Siddhartha Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From SAJA E-mail Lists @ http://www.saja.org Replies to Prof. Erika George, please - and CC [EMAIL PROTECTED] so we can add to the SAJA file. [The SAJA lists are always available for such journalistic and academic requests] From: Erika George [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: India Dalit Documentaries? I am teaching a seminar course comparing affirmative action/positive discrimination initiatives in different countries, including India. I am looking for a more recent documentary film (past 10-15 years) that addresses issues of caste discrimination in India or the social justice movements working on issues of caste discrimination. Basically, I am looking for something that would introduce the issue and provide background and context to students with little knowledge about the country or the issue of caste. The film could be a biography of a prominent person from a low caste or scheduled tribe or could address caste as a social category more generally and how it has evolved from colonialism through today. I suspect it would be difficult to find a film dealing exclusively with the issue of positive discrimination. At minimum I am hoping to identify a film that would be able to offer context to a classroom conversation about the justifications offered for quotas as well as the backlash against such programs in contemporary India. Many thanks, Erika Erika R. George Professor of Law University of Utah S.J. Quinney College of Law 332 South 1400 East, Room 101 Salt Lake City, UT 84106-0730 801.581.7358 801.581.6897 (fax) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ZESTCaste] RE: Tikait's Remarks
Good question, I don't know either. And he did apologize gail On 4/13/08, Ravi Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, Has anybody the actual remarks that Tikait said? I have searched the internet and unfortunately not been able to find any information on the offensive marks he made. The Jats are scared, trust me they are!
Re: [ZESTCaste] Sirish blend of Brahmin - Reddy and Madiga
Associating these stereotypes with caste is a form of caste discrimination! brahmans have intelligence, ksatriyas courage and sudras -- hardship for service! gail http://www.andhravilas.com/movienews.asp?id=41605curPage=1 Sirish blend of Brahmin - Reddy and Madiga Date Updated: 10/25/2007 6:20:28 AM According to film nagar sources, Sirish Bharadwaj is the hot topic of discussion in national news making sensation all around the country and now has become a celebrity in the society, he created sensations by loving, marrying and running away with daughter of Mega Star and finally he knocked the doors of Delhi High Court. A brief review of Sirish background is his father is a Brahmin, mother is a Reddy, mothers mother (grandmother) is Madiga, so Sirish is combination of rare specimen. He has intelligence of a Brahmin, boldness of Reddy and quality of sustaining hardship quality of Madiga. This is with reference to most of the people from those communities, Sirish is behaving like a the specimen with positive qualities those are attributed to respective castes in the opinions of people He is moving the legal coins so planned that opponent is not having any scope to attack him, His statements are bold without any hesitation and has no fear or guilt on his face. That happens to be the quality of Reddy. The strength levels he has of moving from Hyderabad to Goa to Delhi are the energy levels of Madiga is what is analysed. All these blends have resulted in Sirish being a hard nut to crack.
Re: [ZESTCaste] Has caste-based affirmative action worked?
The Economist article is hardly thelast word on the issue! Merit is a catchword that means: people coming from privileged backgrounds that make it possible for them to do well in tests. Doesn't Industry recognize this? who would question that caste-based affirmative action HAS helped an improtant section of SCs come forward? only the blind. Only, reservations are limited: too many reserved posts are still not filled; in fact in many cases they are advertised in a way that won't be filled! as for intermarriage, one citaiton is no proof. Studies on this issue hardly take place in India, and they are not encouraged. All indications are that the vast majority of marriages are still within the caste, and that defying this awakens tremendous and often brutal resistance. pointing to the rotten educational system as an ALTERNATIVE tyo affirmative action will not help. In fact education needs to be addressed as well -- the problem is that those students coming in reserved categories (and so many students form poor and rural backgrounds) need tremendous remedial assistance in writing and reading, and this is not available in the educational system. Gail On 10/17/07, Siddhartha Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://nitawriter.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/has-caste-based-affirmative-action-worked/ Has caste-based affirmative action worked? Posted on October 17, 2007 by Nita Indian industry has already made it clear to the government that job reservations and industry don't mix…and that they will go by merit and merit only when it comes to hiring people. At the same time they promised affirmative action, without compromising on merit. In fact, the CII (Confederation of Indian Industry has introduced measures like scholarships and the FICCI (The Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry has plans to support entrepreneurs in India's poorest districts. And Naukri.com http://naukri.com/, India's biggest job portal has now started asking job-seekers to register their caste! But the question remains: Has 'affirmative action' in educational institutions and the public sector by the Indian government over the past few decades worked? And will the new caste-based hiring by private sector companies work? Just one example. Infosys has put in place a programme to re-train engineering graduates who have been unable to get jobs in industry. Though no jobs are promised at the end of the training, many of those who are re-trained do find employment in Infosys and others, outside. What's interesting is that these people are not from poor families. They are children of professionals…the poor have not benefited. But isn't 'affirmative action' meant for the under-privileged, for the poor? Ofcourse not, not in India. Few amongst the poor can reach an engineering college even if a seat is reserved for them as the public education system is pathetic. And they cannot afford private schools or private tuition. Well, this isn't anything new I guess… But The Economist (Oct 6-12th issue) has an interesting article on the subject…and it busts some myths about the caste system in India, myths that foreigners often believe. The article acknowledges that while reservations are a good idea in theory as they are necessary to right a big historical wrong, they have not worked in India. The main points from The Economist article: Groups benefiting from reservations have got richer at almost exactly the same rate as the rest of the population Since 1950, about a quarter of all seats in universities and jobs in the public-sector jobs have been reserved for dalits and tribal people and there were more reservations in 1993. Between 1983 and 2004, their spending power increased by 26.7%, compared with 27.7% for the average Indian and these are statistics from the National Sample Survey Organisation, a government body. The real cause of poverty and backwardness is being obscured because reservation policies are being touted as a solution The real problem is the government's rotten educational system – basically the pathetic primary and secondary school education. The government has neglected its greatest asset – its people. Those who stand to benefit from reservations in higher education and reservations of jobs in the private sector are the children of those who have already achieved some measure of success in life. Mostly on their own merit. Only a minuscule percentage of employees will benefit if ever there are job reservations in the private sector. This is because this reservation will apply only employees in the organised sector…which is about 2 percent of the entire workforce (firms with ten or more employees)! In any case, a lot of companies already employ huge numbers of other castes, particularly industries which have come up in tribal belts. E.g. Tata Steel. India is being divided along caste lines The Economist mentions the phrase 'reservation
Re: [ZESTCaste] The unsung hero of Buddhist revival in India
How can anyone write on the revival of Buddhism in India and neglect the role of Iyothee Thass. It ws he and other Tamil dalits who contacted Olcott and Dharmapala. they were not simply brought along to be initiated. See the writings of Ravikumar on this, or G. Aloysius on emancipatory religion. Gail On 9/19/07, Tarun Udwala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.hindu.com/2007/09/19/stories/2007091961961800.htm National The unsung hero of Buddhist revival in India Anagarika Dharmapala Dr. B.R. Ambedkar is known as the messiah of the Scheduled Castes/Tribes. That sure he is. He led a mass conversion into Buddhism in 1956, and thus paved the way for Buddhist revival in India. But history should record the American-born Colonel Olcott and Anagarika Dharmapala as his fore-runners. Col. Olcott started schools for the Dalits and the social rejects of those days, even before Dr. Ambedkar was born. At the same period, Dharmapala was the first to feel there was a great potential to win over the hearts of the untouchables in India, whom the caste Hindus persecuted. He pointed out the need for converting 65 million of untouchables into Buddhism. He had expressed his frustration thus: I wish to start a propaganda to carry the Dhamma to the untouchables, but I am now very weak. Dr. Ambedkar, along with his followers, got converted to Buddhism on October 15, 1956. This is recorded as the first historic mass conversion to Buddhism. But 58 years earlier, there was a mass conversion of untouchables in Colombo, the majority of whom were Indians. On July 1, 1898, Col. Olcott, accompanied by Dharmapala led a delegation of the untouchables from the southern India (members of the Sakya Muni Society, and who left Madras for Colombo). Olcott and Dharmapala presented the large group of untouchables from India to the High Priest of Vidyodaya Pirivena. And they took Pancasila in Sri Lanka. Then a history was created, soon forgotten. Thus the contribution of Dharmapala and Col. Olcott to revival of Buddhism in India is remarkable. Anagarika Dharmapala, who took to the religious ministry of Buddhism under Theosophical auspices, became the first missionary of the Buddhist revival in India in 1891 when he founded the Maha Bodhi Society in Chennai. He fought for the transfer of the Buddha-Gaya temple complex to Buddhist hands. He enlisted the cooperation of influential men in India and Asian countries those days for this effort and succeeded in establishing a strong Buddhist presence in India. The Maha Bodhi journal, started by him as the organ of the Society, was patronised by Indian intellectuals such as Rabindranath Tagore, who contributed articles and poems to it; it evoked widespread enthusiasm among educated people for the Buddha and his religion. Dharmapala's signal achievement was the social base he built up for Buddhism to flourish again in India. He arranged to establish active centres of Buddhist worship. Dharmapala spent in India 40 years of his life of 69. He worked day and night for the revival of Buddhism in India. Though Dharmapala was born in Sri Lanka and ceaselessly loved Sri Lanka, he was not keen to die and be buried in his own country. His desire was to breathe my last after having entered the Buddhist order in the land of Buddha, purified by the tread of peace-loving Buddha's feet. Realising that his end was near, Ven Sri Devamita Dharmapala, as he came to be called on his getting ordained, said: Don't waste your money on buying medicine for me; use that money for Buddhist works. This is final moment. Let me be reborn and help to promote the Buddha Sasana in India. I am prepared to be born 25 times over or more times so as to help spread the Dhamma of the Great Teacher, the Samma Sambuddha over all the world. Mouthing that wish he breathed his last on April 29, 1933. His is a big name in Sri Lanka. This great Sri Lankan, who is responsible for Buddhist revival in India, is a forgotten, unsung hero here. (The writer is Counsellor, Information, Deputy High Commission for Sri Lanka, Chennai)
Re: [ZESTCaste] Caste war divides AIIMS (News)
It seems from the final sentence that the reporter is taking the easy way out -- saying that we shouldn't talk about caste. People of any caste should be free to disclose it and be known by it and not be discriminated against or exploited. (People should also be free not to disclose their caste if they don't want). But talking about the politics of caste implies that if those who suffer from exploitation make a fight about it they are the ones to blame. This is a typical Indian form of casteism. Forcing people to hide who you are is a humiliation. Gail On 9/17/07, Tarun Udwala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20070026330 Quota wrangle: Caste war divides AIIMS Sidharth Pandey Monday, September 17, 2007 (New Delhi) It's hard to believe but politics and caste have divided doctors and students not only at AIIMS but in several hospitals across the city. The situation is particularly bad at AIIMS, where some doctors have refused to go on rounds with their seniors. They say that they are being discriminated on the basis of caste. For Dr Suman Bhasker, a cancer specialist at the All India Institute of Medical Sciences, doing the rounds at the hospital has become a solitary routine. For the last three months, the eight resident doctors who are meant to accompany her on her rounds have refused to do so. They claim Dr Bhasker is not available, has physically threatened them and has discriminated against the upper caste doctors on the basis of caste. But she says this is a motivated campaign rooted in caste. ''Look at the letters, they all sound just the same as if they have been dictated by one person. All this is being done at someone else's behest and it is being done because I was one of the people leading the pro reservation struggle in AIIMS,'' said Dr Suman Bhasker, Department of Radiation Oncology, AIIMS. Obviously the result of their non coperation will be a fallout on the patients. Patients at the country's top hospital may already be paying the price of this caste war between doctors. A letter written by Dr Mohanti, Bhasker's team, head to the chief of the unit, should send alarm bells ringing. ''I have observed that residents refuse to carry out patient -related works and ward rounds as pre assigned schedules and under supervision and guidance of the faculty in the Unit,'' said Dr BK Mohanti, Department of Radiation Oncology, AIIMS. ''I have observed that residents engage in collective allegations and have taken up the attitude that they can do patient care and training process in the department on their own. This is a dangerous trend, which can have adverse impact. I foresee a situation where there can be serious implications for the patient care, training and teaching activities,'' said Mohanti. Patients suffer Today AIIMS is divided down the middle. The turf war between the health minister and the director of the institute along with the politics of caste have meant that it is very difficult for doctors not to choose sides. And patients are paying the price. Doctors at the institute say the polorisation at AIIMS intensified last year after the HRD minister announced a 27 per cent additional reservation for OBCs in institutes of higher learning, including AIIMS. This decision led to mass scale protests across several institutes with doctors from several teaching hospitals including Guru Teg Badhaur and Mulana Azad medical college in the capital joining in. Once again it was AIIMS that became the focal point of the anti reservation stir for over two weeks. Resident doctors struck work, even pitched tents inside the hospital as doctors and the AIIMS administration joined forces against the government. A year and a half later, while patients continue to be casualties of this subterranean caste war today, those from the reserved category say that they have been victims of a systematic attack for many years - an attack which has often degenerated into the physical. ''Sometimes our people have been beaten up as well and they have been in plaster as well. Sometimes they (the faculty) straightforward ask you which caste you belong to,'' said Ajay Singh, final year medical student. Lakhs of students apply to get into AIIMS but every year just 50 make it through after tough competition. Ideally students can stay anywhere in the five hostels inside the campus but it is at the top two floors of hostel that those from the reserved category stay. According to them this is the only place that they can stay and feel safe. But even inside the special hostel the signs of caste discrimination are all too visible. Abuses were scribbled on the hostel door of a student late one night. Discrimination in hostel Students belonging to the reserved category say this is just one of the reminders of the divide they live with. ''The SC/ST category has a different wing and
