Re: [Zim-wiki] Bounty for folding
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 10:19 AM, J.A. de Vries hdv.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 2012-11-15 09:43, jayseye wrote: I could draft a proposal, to be consistent with Jaap's framework for bounties. If that would be acceptable, then I have two questions: I set up a page on our development page here: http://www.zim-wiki.org/wiki/doku.php?id=folding I put down the objective and initial notes on implementation. HdV if you can check if you are happy with the definition I put down (and if not please modify accordingly) than I can discuss implementation details with Marc Paul. For implementation discussion let's go to personal mail and document on the development wiki, no need to spam the mailing list. First, lists would be a clear choice for folding, as they can be nested to any depth. Headings were also mentioned in your original query: Ah, indeed. Almost forgot about that. I'd really like to see the addition of a plugin that would enable folding for lists and headings (both would be very welcome). To clarify then, based on your latest reply: Would folding of Headings be an additional feature request, with a separate bounty? I myself don't need folding based on headings at the moment, but yes I would be willing to support a separate bounty for that. I can imagine that other people could use such an additional feature very well. I would also very much like them. I'll put an additional 50,- on the bounty from Zim donations fund if this can be covered. ( Won't add much additional work, but the main thing is that folding headings can not follow indentation, so bit more logic is needed to determine what text to fold. ) Second question, for both you and Jaap: Would it be feasible to set milestones for implementing folding, starting with a working model? This could help ensure that we're on the same page as work progresses. Communicating often and making small steps is what in my experience always led to the best results in projects. Depending on what Jaap prefers I think that would be a good approach. I on my part will strive to make the time to answer any questions without making you wait too long. On the wiki page I put a section timeline with suggestion for milestones, open for discussion. Specifically, Zim already has a built-in secondary view, which might be useful as a testbed: From the File menu, Open in New Window displays a work-in-progress toward multiple views. (It's read-only for now, though fixing that is mentioned in the docs.) That New Window might be a safe place to develop folding, while preserving the current main window. Once folding works as agreed in this testbed view, it would be straightforward to merge it into the right-hand pane of the main window. Sounds like a proper safe approach to do this. Let's see what Jaap thinks (as I don't know the code very well). Probably that would actually complicate things since both windows derive from the same class. Since you would be developing in a separate code branch anyway there is no need to separate. Once it is functional I merge it in the main code and it will be enabled for all windows. @Jaap: are there groudrules for doing bounties? Or do you want me to arrange something with Marc Paul directly? The rules I came up with when I started with bounties are here: http://www.zim-wiki.org/contribute.html In general I think for your part of the bounty you should decide whether you are happy or not. Main thing for me is to have design, progress code in the open so it is transparent what is done. Regards, Jaap ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Zim-wiki] Bounty for folding
Thanks for the reply, Jaap. This is all very encouraging. Working on a bzr branch sounds convenient. From now on I'll keep mailing list discussions at a higher level. Hans mentioned the ability to fold plain indented lists, i.e. with neither bullets nor checkmarks. I'm also interested in that, Having read your reply, I'd like to confirm that folding normal, indented text would be straightforward? If so, it sounds like we could potentially use Zim as a folding code editor for small Python source files. Does that sound practical? Meanwhile it's very late here so I will call it a night. Will explore this in detail in the morning, both on the Wiki and in this e-mail thread. Regards, Marc On 11/15/12, Jaap Karssenberg jaap.karssenb...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 10:19 AM, J.A. de Vries hdv.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 2012-11-15 09:43, jayseye wrote: I could draft a proposal, to be consistent with Jaap's framework for bounties. If that would be acceptable, then I have two questions: I set up a page on our development page here: http://www.zim-wiki.org/wiki/doku.php?id=folding I put down the objective and initial notes on implementation. HdV if you can check if you are happy with the definition I put down (and if not please modify accordingly) than I can discuss implementation details with Marc Paul. For implementation discussion let's go to personal mail and document on the development wiki, no need to spam the mailing list. First, lists would be a clear choice for folding, as they can be nested to any depth. Headings were also mentioned in your original query: Ah, indeed. Almost forgot about that. I'd really like to see the addition of a plugin that would enable folding for lists and headings (both would be very welcome). To clarify then, based on your latest reply: Would folding of Headings be an additional feature request, with a separate bounty? I myself don't need folding based on headings at the moment, but yes I would be willing to support a separate bounty for that. I can imagine that other people could use such an additional feature very well. I would also very much like them. I'll put an additional 50,- on the bounty from Zim donations fund if this can be covered. ( Won't add much additional work, but the main thing is that folding headings can not follow indentation, so bit more logic is needed to determine what text to fold. ) Second question, for both you and Jaap: Would it be feasible to set milestones for implementing folding, starting with a working model? This could help ensure that we're on the same page as work progresses. Communicating often and making small steps is what in my experience always led to the best results in projects. Depending on what Jaap prefers I think that would be a good approach. I on my part will strive to make the time to answer any questions without making you wait too long. On the wiki page I put a section timeline with suggestion for milestones, open for discussion. Specifically, Zim already has a built-in secondary view, which might be useful as a testbed: From the File menu, Open in New Window displays a work-in-progress toward multiple views. (It's read-only for now, though fixing that is mentioned in the docs.) That New Window might be a safe place to develop folding, while preserving the current main window. Once folding works as agreed in this testbed view, it would be straightforward to merge it into the right-hand pane of the main window. Sounds like a proper safe approach to do this. Let's see what Jaap thinks (as I don't know the code very well). Probably that would actually complicate things since both windows derive from the same class. Since you would be developing in a separate code branch anyway there is no need to separate. Once it is functional I merge it in the main code and it will be enabled for all windows. @Jaap: are there groudrules for doing bounties? Or do you want me to arrange something with Marc Paul directly? The rules I came up with when I started with bounties are here: http://www.zim-wiki.org/contribute.html In general I think for your part of the bounty you should decide whether you are happy or not. Main thing for me is to have design, progress code in the open so it is transparent what is done. Regards, Jaap ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Zim-wiki] Bounty for folding
I would love both folding, and a tree navigation like that in KeynoteNF which can be ordered manually. I'd like to consider the pros cons of the tree simply reflecting the document structure, with manual ordering and movement (though I foresee problems!), or of reflecting the folding within the tree also. I've been using KeynoteNF for a long time, but like Zim and ideally would switch to it, if only it covered some important features of KeynoteNF: - the brilliantly flexible and compact tree structure (with manual organisation). Zim's side-panels are far to spaced out, and don't allow me to organise documents into a heirarchy. - tabs for different notes (Zim documents?) - document synchronization (currently I'm using Syncplicity, trying to remember not to have the Wiki open on more than one machine at a time) The main thing lacking in KeynoteNF for my use case are is folding, although I also prefer the way Zim's uses the filesystem (KeynoteNF stores everything in a single file) because this makes it easier for me to sync across machines using Syncplicity/Dropbox. The advantages I see for me in Zim are: - it is actively supported and developing - more flexible/robust document structure - more potential for sharing/publishing - it has some great features that give potential applications Disadvantage is Windows support being second class (no disrespect to Brendan!) BTW: Is there a way to indent without numbering/bullets etc? Mark http://thewebalyst.com On 14/11/2012 10:02, jayseye wrote: In-reply-to: ca+tmwmfgktmjyb2y2-hog_nmmtcs6z5acipzrr1d6rc2ep2...@mail.gmail.com Hello Jaap, and J.A. de Vries - I'd like to follow up on adding folding to Zim. Have yet to find this listed on the Wiki, as mentioned below. Has there been any progress, and/or is there still interest in this feature? Thanks! Marc Paul Rubin (jayseye) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Zim-wiki] Bounty for folding
In-reply-to: ca+tmwmfgktmjyb2y2-hog_nmmtcs6z5acipzrr1d6rc2ep2...@mail.gmail.com Hello Jaap, and J.A. de Vries - I'd like to follow up on adding folding to Zim. Have yet to find this listed on the Wiki, as mentioned below. Has there been any progress, and/or is there still interest in this feature? Thanks! Marc Paul Rubin (jayseye) --- From: J.A. de Vries hdv.jadev@x Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:10:59 +0200 Hi Jaap, Maybe you could set up a small page on the dev wiki here: http://www.zim-wiki.org/wiki/doku.php . Please specify criteria that the plugin needs fulfill in order to claim the bounty, and how to contact you to claim it etc. Will do that. Might take a couple of days due to work. I can link the wiki page from the main website. To give a first shot on the technical impact: looks like gtksourceview can support marks in the window margin, which could be used to trigger fold/unfold. Also it looks like next release of gtksourceview will have a special API for folding. That would be great. It should make things a whole lot easier to implement and maintain. So either we need to make zim's editor inherit from gtksourceview and build on that API, or emulate the relevant code to enable similar features in zim. I don't know the inner workings of zim too well, but if the first option could provide the functionality I need, then I'd suggest the first alternative. The more generic the code the better in my experience. Main challenge is to get the folding marks (icons) in the marging and keep them uptodate. The hiding of a piece of text is almost trivial. Adding some widget / keybinding to fold/unfold all up to a certain level needs some design but is probably easy to implement as well. Glad to hear that! I'll try to make some time this weekend to write down the specs for what I would like to have. P.S. I am willing to sponsor other bounties as well, if you want me to. Just contact me if I can help. Grx HdV References Bounty for folding From: J.A. de Vries, 2012-05-19 Re: Bounty for folding From: Jaap Karssenberg, 2012-05-22 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Zim-wiki] Bounty for folding
Big interest on my part - but I'm pretty useless when it comes to programing anything more complicated than Hello world. Maybe I can scare up a little cash to help to sweeten the bounty. (emphasis on little - I have two daughters heading into college and another not far behind.) -Kurt On Nov 14, 2012 5:02 AM, jayseye jays...@users.sourceforge.net wrote: In-reply-to: ca+tmwmfgktmjyb2y2-hog_nmmtcs6z5acipzrr1d6rc2ep2...@mail.gmail.com Hello Jaap, and J.A. de Vries - I'd like to follow up on adding folding to Zim. Have yet to find this listed on the Wiki, as mentioned below. Has there been any progress, and/or is there still interest in this feature? Thanks! Marc Paul Rubin (jayseye) --- From: J.A. de Vries hdv.jadev@x Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:10:59 +0200 Hi Jaap, Maybe you could set up a small page on the dev wiki here: http://www.zim-wiki.org/wiki/doku.php . Please specify criteria that the plugin needs fulfill in order to claim the bounty, and how to contact you to claim it etc. Will do that. Might take a couple of days due to work. I can link the wiki page from the main website. To give a first shot on the technical impact: looks like gtksourceview can support marks in the window margin, which could be used to trigger fold/unfold. Also it looks like next release of gtksourceview will have a special API for folding. That would be great. It should make things a whole lot easier to implement and maintain. So either we need to make zim's editor inherit from gtksourceview and build on that API, or emulate the relevant code to enable similar features in zim. I don't know the inner workings of zim too well, but if the first option could provide the functionality I need, then I'd suggest the first alternative. The more generic the code the better in my experience. Main challenge is to get the folding marks (icons) in the marging and keep them uptodate. The hiding of a piece of text is almost trivial. Adding some widget / keybinding to fold/unfold all up to a certain level needs some design but is probably easy to implement as well. Glad to hear that! I'll try to make some time this weekend to write down the specs for what I would like to have. P.S. I am willing to sponsor other bounties as well, if you want me to. Just contact me if I can help. Grx HdV References Bounty for folding From: J.A. de Vries, 2012-05-19 Re: Bounty for folding From: Jaap Karssenberg, 2012-05-22 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Zim-wiki] Bounty for folding
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 12:55 PM, J.A. de Vries hdv.ja...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, For a while now I've been using zim and I am very happy with it. It does most of what I need without getting in the way. I like the lean and mean character of it. Especially the fact that I can edit files remotely through SSH. So thanks for creating it! However there is one thing I am sorely missing and that's folding. I use zim to create lots (!) of notes, for example when brainstorming for a new document. Right now I scroll through a page quite a lot and that gets tedious. I'd really like to see the addition of a plugin that would enable folding for lists and headings (both would be very welcome). And I imagine other people could use such a thing too. So, I'd like to sponsor the development of a plugin that would provide folding to zim and its users. Normally I would try to do it myself (I am a reasonably proficient programmer), but I really couldn't even begin to think where I'd get the time, as my business claims almost all of it and my wife would appreciate it if I had some time left for us. I see on the website that this community has a bounty-system. So, if Jaap allows it I would like to offer a bounty of €200 for someone that adds folding of headings (based on type?) and lists (based on indentation?) to zim and make its available to the rest of the community. Maybe you could set up a small page on the dev wiki here: http://www.zim-wiki.org/wiki/doku.php . Please specify criteria that the plugin needs fulfill in order to claim the bounty, and how to contact you to claim it etc. I can link the wiki page from the main website. To give a first shot on the technical impact: looks like gtksourceview can support marks in the window margin, which could be used to trigger fold/unfold. Also it looks like next release of gtksourceview will have a special API for folding. So either we need to make zim's editor inherit from gtksourceview and build on that API, or emulate the relevant code to enable similar features in zim. Main challenge is to get the folding marks (icons) in the marging and keep them uptodate. The hiding of a piece of text is almost trivial. Adding some widget / keybinding to fold/unfold all up to a certain level needs some design but is probably easy to implement as well. Regards, Jaap ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
