RE: [ZION] Carob beans
John W. Redelfs wrote: --- Don't we already know that John the Baptist ate locusts and honey? Locusts are definitely animal protein, not plants. --- Apparently some believe "locusts" to be a mistranslation perpetuated from very early manuscripts. In certain early historical writings the phrase is found as "honey, and cakes made with oil and honey." The change is attributed to misreading the Greek "enkis", meaning "cake oil", to "akris" which means "locusts." But of course this is all Greek to me. Supposedly this is also consistent with what scholars of the Dead Sea Scrolls have learned quite recently about the strict rules of the Essenes community, of which some believe John the Baptist was an associate. Some of John's other peculiar habits seem to have interesting parallels with the Essenes culture. FWIW. --- Mij Ebaboc // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Carob beans
Jim Cobabe favored us with: None of these stories are clear and unambiguous enough to be very conclusive, nor do I think it matters what John the Baptist ate, but it is certainly an entertaining bit of triva. Don't we already know that John the Baptist ate locusts and honey? Locusts are definitely animal protein, not plants. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Carob beans
That's pretty well my understanding, too, although I didn't know it might have originated with the Elbionites -- I thought it was during the Middle Ages when various Bibles mention it. But again, in the Greek New Testament the word for locust is "akpides," from which we also get the modern word "cricket," incidentally Jim Cobabe wrote: > Apparently an early Jewish/Christian sect who called themselves > Ebionites claimed to have originated from the pre-Christian Nazarite > discipline, and among other interesting things, argued that Jesus and > John the Baptist were vegetarians. Some believe the Locust/Carob > controversy might have started with them. I understand that some > communities of Jewish Essenes, such as those at Qumran, are also reputed > to have practiced strict vegetarianism. None of these stories are clear > and unambiguous enough to be very conclusive, nor do I think it matters > what John the Baptist ate, but it is certainly an entertaining bit of > triva. > > --- > Mij Ebaboc > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Knowledge may give weight, but accomplishments give lustre, and many more people see than weigh. Lord Chesterfield Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] Carob beans
Apparently an early Jewish/Christian sect who called themselves Ebionites claimed to have originated from the pre-Christian Nazarite discipline, and among other interesting things, argued that Jesus and John the Baptist were vegetarians. Some believe the Locust/Carob controversy might have started with them. I understand that some communities of Jewish Essenes, such as those at Qumran, are also reputed to have practiced strict vegetarianism. None of these stories are clear and unambiguous enough to be very conclusive, nor do I think it matters what John the Baptist ate, but it is certainly an entertaining bit of triva. --- Mij Ebaboc // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Carob beans
This is a common tradition (the term "carob" was eating away at the back of my head, trying to get something out, and when Mij mentioned "St. John's Bread," I finally remembered that there is a tradition that what John the Baptist ate in the desert was locust beans, not locusts. Locust bean is another word for carob.) Unfortunately this is an issue only in modern European languages, not in the original Greek, which clearly indicates that it was a great big bowl of greasy grimylocust guts (and I forgot my spoon). The reason for the tradition, besides the yuck factor is that many people assumed insects aren't kosher. And most of them aren't, but one verse in Leviticus (iirc, 11:20-21) explicitly gives an exception for four varieties of locusts. Which is kinda practical, when you think about it. I mean, they have the chutzpah to eat all your grain, so why should you be forbidden to doing unto them what they've tried to do unto you, so to chirp? "Elmer L. Fairbank" wrote: > At 05:30 12/19/2002 +, Gib Mij clarifies in his inimitable manner: > >Carob is a unique substance that has an appearance similar to cocoa. It > >comes from the Ceratonia siliqua, an evergreen tree native to the > >Eastern Mediterranean area. This relatively wild tree, which grows up to > >50 feet tall, bears fruit at the age of six to eight years with a > >greater abundance of fruit every other year. The average annual yield > >per tree is 200-250 lbs. of fruit. Carob, or St. John's Bread, as it is > >commonly known, is a large (4-12 inch long) dried, bean-like pod. Pods > >are harvested from September to November. Inside the carob pods are tiny > >beans which are used to make locust bean gum, a stabilizer and thickener > >in foods. The carob pods themselves are roasted and ground into carob > >powder. Carob powder can be used to replace cocoa at levels from 25-50%. > >While carob performs like cocoa, it differs in sugar and fat content. > >Cocoa may contain up to 23% fat and 5% sugar while carob has .7% fat and > >a natural sugar content of 42-48%. Nutritionally, carob has none of the > >allergy-producing antibodies or the caffeine stimulant theobromine found > >in the cocoa bean. Carob contains as much vitamin B1 as asparagus or > >strawberries, the same amount of niacin as lima beans, lentils or peas > >and more vitamin A than eggplant, asparagus and beets. It is also high > >in vitamin B2, calcium, magnesium and iron. In addition to being a > >delicious and healthful foodstuff, carob powder is used as a tobacco > >flavoring and in the production of some pharmaceuticals. > > > >Matthew 3:1-6 (KJV) In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in > >the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of > >heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet > >Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye > >the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. And the same John had his > >raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his > >meat was locusts and wild honey. Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all > >Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, And were baptized of him > >in Jordan, confessing their sins. > > Are you saying that John ate carobs instead of fat little insects? > > Till the confused > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Knowledge may give weight, but accomplishments give lustre, and many more people see than weigh. Lord Chesterfield Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Carob beans
At 05:30 12/19/2002 +, Gib Mij clarifies in his inimitable manner: Carob is a unique substance that has an appearance similar to cocoa. It comes from the Ceratonia siliqua, an evergreen tree native to the Eastern Mediterranean area. This relatively wild tree, which grows up to 50 feet tall, bears fruit at the age of six to eight years with a greater abundance of fruit every other year. The average annual yield per tree is 200-250 lbs. of fruit. Carob, or St. John's Bread, as it is commonly known, is a large (4-12 inch long) dried, bean-like pod. Pods are harvested from September to November. Inside the carob pods are tiny beans which are used to make locust bean gum, a stabilizer and thickener in foods. The carob pods themselves are roasted and ground into carob powder. Carob powder can be used to replace cocoa at levels from 25-50%. While carob performs like cocoa, it differs in sugar and fat content. Cocoa may contain up to 23% fat and 5% sugar while carob has .7% fat and a natural sugar content of 42-48%. Nutritionally, carob has none of the allergy-producing antibodies or the caffeine stimulant theobromine found in the cocoa bean. Carob contains as much vitamin B1 as asparagus or strawberries, the same amount of niacin as lima beans, lentils or peas and more vitamin A than eggplant, asparagus and beets. It is also high in vitamin B2, calcium, magnesium and iron. In addition to being a delicious and healthful foodstuff, carob powder is used as a tobacco flavoring and in the production of some pharmaceuticals. Matthew 3:1-6 (KJV) In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. Are you saying that John ate carobs instead of fat little insects? Till the confused // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Carob beans
See, folks? You have a question, and there's always someone on the list who a) knows the answer; b) may not know, but knows how to find out; and even on occasion, c) hasn't a clue but can concoct an answer with such an air of authority that no one cares if it's right or not ;-) [Thanks, Jim] Jim Cobabe wrote: > Carob is a unique substance that has an appearance similar to cocoa. It > comes from the Ceratonia siliqua, an evergreen tree native to the > Eastern Mediterranean area. This relatively wild tree, which grows up to > 50 feet tall, bears fruit at the age of six to eight years with a > greater abundance of fruit every other year. The average annual yield > per tree is 200-250 lbs. of fruit. Carob, or St. John's Bread, as it is > commonly known, is a large (4-12 inch long) dried, bean-like pod. Pods > are harvested from September to November. Inside the carob pods are tiny > beans which are used to make locust bean gum, a stabilizer and thickener > in foods. The carob pods themselves are roasted and ground into carob > powder. Carob powder can be used to replace cocoa at levels from 25-50%. > While carob performs like cocoa, it differs in sugar and fat content. > Cocoa may contain up to 23% fat and 5% sugar while carob has .7% fat and > a natural sugar content of 42-48%. Nutritionally, carob has none of the > allergy-producing antibodies or the caffeine stimulant theobromine found > in the cocoa bean. Carob contains as much vitamin B1 as asparagus or > strawberries, the same amount of niacin as lima beans, lentils or peas > and more vitamin A than eggplant, asparagus and beets. It is also high > in vitamin B2, calcium, magnesium and iron. In addition to being a > delicious and healthful foodstuff, carob powder is used as a tobacco > flavoring and in the production of some pharmaceuticals. > > Matthew 3:1-6 (KJV) In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in > the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of > heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet > Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye > the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. And the same John had his > raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his > meat was locusts and wild honey. Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all > Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, And were baptized of him > in Jordan, confessing their sins. > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Knowledge may give weight, but accomplishments give lustre, and many more people see than weigh. Lord Chesterfield Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
[ZION] Carob beans
Carob is a unique substance that has an appearance similar to cocoa. It comes from the Ceratonia siliqua, an evergreen tree native to the Eastern Mediterranean area. This relatively wild tree, which grows up to 50 feet tall, bears fruit at the age of six to eight years with a greater abundance of fruit every other year. The average annual yield per tree is 200-250 lbs. of fruit. Carob, or St. John's Bread, as it is commonly known, is a large (4-12 inch long) dried, bean-like pod. Pods are harvested from September to November. Inside the carob pods are tiny beans which are used to make locust bean gum, a stabilizer and thickener in foods. The carob pods themselves are roasted and ground into carob powder. Carob powder can be used to replace cocoa at levels from 25-50%. While carob performs like cocoa, it differs in sugar and fat content. Cocoa may contain up to 23% fat and 5% sugar while carob has .7% fat and a natural sugar content of 42-48%. Nutritionally, carob has none of the allergy-producing antibodies or the caffeine stimulant theobromine found in the cocoa bean. Carob contains as much vitamin B1 as asparagus or strawberries, the same amount of niacin as lima beans, lentils or peas and more vitamin A than eggplant, asparagus and beets. It is also high in vitamin B2, calcium, magnesium and iron. In addition to being a delicious and healthful foodstuff, carob powder is used as a tobacco flavoring and in the production of some pharmaceuticals. Matthew 3:1-6 (KJV) In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
