[ZION] You just don't get it
Just to show I do get it, let me clarify my position. First off, there was a Great Apostasy. The Lord began sending light and truth down to prepare the way for the restoration through Joseph Smith. The fulness of the gospel was restored through the living prophets. The Church is different than all other Churches for two reasons: we have fuller truths, the Gift of the Holy Ghost, and we have authority of God. We have the truths and authority to exalt, to give a fulness of salvation. Now, let me explain the Great Apostasy. It was a loss of authority, and much truth was lost, also. However, people still have the light of Christ to guide them (as well as the Holy Ghost) to give them some saving truths. These truths are enough to save most in a kingdom of glory. If the world had been in a total apostasy of Satanic darkness, there would have been nothing but sons of perdition and no one to save. God wants all his children to be exalted, but accepts giving his children what level of light they are willing to receive. Though other Churches do not exalt, they can help save. If a Baptist or Muslim church can help a person live a terrestrial life, that person has received a great blessing. Hopefully that person would later accept the fuller truths in the LDS Church. I understand your viewpoint, John. And I agree with it in many ways. However, I do not see the point of using vinegar all the time. The other day, I was with the Elders teaching a young woman the second discussion. We were discussing baptism, and she asked if she needed to be rebaptized, as her old minister had baptized her and he was one of the greatest men in her life. He had helped her turn her life around from living a life of drugs and teen pregnancy, into a wholesome life as a stay at home mother and wife. Should we have told her that her old minister was an apostate and his baptism was of Satan? Yeah, that would have gone far in getting her converted, eh? Vinegar. Instead, we explained that many ministers do much good work, yet there has always been a question of authority between Catholics and Protestants. In the LDS Church, we know that the Lord gave his priesthood authority to Joseph Smith, so there isn't any question on authority. She was satisfied with the answer and has accepted baptism for next month. I know these other religions cannot exalt. That is what we are here for. Yet, I do recognize the good they do, just as Brigham Young, Spencer Kimball and other prophets have noted. The prophets know there was an apostasy. They condemn false doctrines, as I do. But they don't go around with a chip on their shoulder, either. They teach our truths without seeking to offend. Alma said to be bold without overbearing. That is my goal, to teach the truths of God without offending. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe JWR: To those who defend apostate sects: You just don't get it. There was a Great Apostasy during the first two centuries of the Christian era. It was caused by the devil and his followers introducing false doctrine. The apostasy was complete. The priesthood was taken from the earth. The churches not only lost their right to perform the saving ordinances, but they also began to teach false doctrine. Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] You Just Don't Get It
Are there people here who defend apostate sects? Or is this a high council talk
;-)
Reminds me of a true story (do I tell any other kind?). Once, in the 80s, when
the Cold War was at its, er, hottest, I gave a talk in my ward in Ottawa. People
knew I travelled a lot, and was only at sacrament maybe half the time due to my
demanding travel schedule. At the beginning of my talk, I said, straight-faced,
that I had recently been to Moscow, and had been picked up along with 3 other
people, all USAmericans, by the KGB. We shared a cell in Lubyanka Prison for the
night. Our crime was being caught with religious material, namely, our
scriptures. I was nothing (actually my calling was back-up GD teacher iirc) but
the other 3 consisted of a Relief Society president, a high councillor and a
bishop. The guards came and granted each of us a last wish as we were going to
be shot at dawn. The bishop said he wanted his scriptures back so he could read
in them until his execution. This was granted. The high councillor said he had
been scheduled to give a talk in his home ward back home, and he wanted to give
it to the rest of us so he could do his best at completing his assignment. This
was granted. All eyes turned to the RS president, who said, immediately, My last
wish is to be shot before the high councillor gives his talk
One elderly lady came up to me later and said, Oh, it's such a vicious regime
over there, isn't it? It's a miracle you got out of there alive. Sigh. As the
subject line says, you just don't get it. :-)
John W. Redelfs wrote:
To those who defend apostate sects:
You just don't get it. There was a Great Apostasy during the first two
centuries of the Christian era. It was caused by the devil and his
followers introducing false doctrine. The apostasy was complete. The
priesthood was taken from the earth. The churches not only lost their
right to perform the saving ordinances, but they also began to teach false
doctrine.
Remember, outside of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints this
apostasy is still going on. More and more true doctrine is lost as century
after century the vestigial, true doctrine is replaced with false doctrine.
The Restoration has begun. It is ongoing. Once again angels visit the
earth and teach our Savior's pure and redeeming doctrine. Among the
Latter-day Saints, and among them alone, the truth has been restored by
angels, the Holy Ghost, and true prophets.
But outside the Church the apostasy continues. Satan has been successful
in corrupting all flesh and darkness prevails upon the earth, among the
children of men.
(Doctrine and Covenants, Section 38:11) There is only one shining ray of
hope, one glimmer of light in the darkness. And that is the Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint, the restoration of the true doctrines of
Jesus Christ.
There are good people in the other churches. Because of the Holy Ghost
these good people do not believe everything their ministers tell them. But
the religion those ministers teach, the doctrines they learned in the
seminaries and post divinity degree programs, are false. And it is evil to
teach them, just as it is a fatal mistake to believe them.
True, the growing darkness is not a perfect darkness. There are still some
vestiges of truth among the other sects. That is why President Hinckley,
and every prophet before him, tells those of other religions to keep the
truth that they have and let us add to it. But let there be no mistake,
the doctrine taught by their religious leaders is evil. It is evil because
it perverts the right way of the Lord. And in many cases, perhaps most, it
does not prepare them for our missionaries. Rather it hardens them in
their wrong way.
Your friend and brother,
John W. Redelfs, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland
Guns dont kill people; people with guns kill people
Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
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nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.
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RE: [ZION] You Just Don't Get It
-Marc- Are there people here who defend apostate sects? Or is this a high council talk ;-) Actually, I agree with John in this. It's one thing to say that some/many/most/all religions contain truths. It's quite another to say that God directed that they be established as a sort of halfway house for sinners in their journey to him. The former seems obvious; the latter is directly contrary to my understanding of God's dealings with us. Yes, good and honest men and women, working through the light of Christ, can bring to pass good works. That does not mean that those works, be they social contributions or religious organizations, are inspired by God, approved of him, or granted any special status outside what the Lord told Joseph Smith about the creeds of his (and our) day. I would not choose to lead into a conversation with a non-member by citing this fact, however. In some instances, our similarities are much more important than our differences. But let's not be deceived into believing that Such-and-such Church or sect or religion has been set up under the inspiration of God for the edification of his children. I disbelieve that, and in fact believe it to be in direct contradiction to our teachings, as I mentioned above. Stephen / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
