Re: [ZION] You Just Don't Get It

2002-10-29 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Are there people here who defend apostate sects? Or is this a high council talk
;-)

Reminds me of a true story (do I tell any other kind?). Once, in the 80s, when
the Cold War was at its, er, hottest, I gave a talk in my ward in Ottawa. People
knew I travelled a lot, and was only at sacrament maybe half the time due to my
demanding travel schedule. At the beginning of my talk, I said, straight-faced,
that I had recently been to Moscow, and had been picked up along with 3 other
people, all USAmericans, by the KGB. We shared a cell in Lubyanka Prison for the
night. Our crime was being caught with religious material, namely, our
scriptures. I was nothing (actually my calling was back-up GD teacher iirc) but
the other 3 consisted of a Relief Society president, a high councillor and a
bishop.  The guards came and granted each of us a last wish as we were going to
be shot at dawn.  The bishop said he wanted his scriptures back so he could read
in them until his execution. This was granted.  The high councillor said he had
been scheduled to give a talk in his home ward back home, and he wanted to give
it to the rest of us so he could do his best at completing his assignment.  This
was granted. All eyes turned to the RS president, who said, immediately, My last
wish is to be shot before the high councillor gives his talk

One elderly lady came up to me later and said, Oh, it's such a vicious regime
over there, isn't it? It's a miracle you got out of there alive.  Sigh. As the
subject line says, you just don't get it. :-)

John W. Redelfs wrote:

 To those who defend apostate sects:

 You just don't get it.  There was a Great Apostasy during the first two
 centuries of the Christian era.  It was caused by the devil and his
 followers introducing false doctrine.  The apostasy was complete.  The
 priesthood was taken from the earth.  The churches not only lost their
 right to perform the saving ordinances, but they also began to teach false
 doctrine.

 Remember, outside of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints this
 apostasy is still going on.  More and more true doctrine is lost as century
 after century the vestigial, true doctrine is replaced with false doctrine.

 The Restoration has begun.  It is ongoing.  Once again angels visit the
 earth and teach our Savior's pure and redeeming doctrine.  Among the
 Latter-day Saints, and among them alone, the truth has been restored by
 angels, the Holy Ghost, and true prophets.

 But outside the Church the apostasy continues.  Satan has been successful
 in corrupting all flesh and darkness prevails upon the earth, among the
 children of men.
 (Doctrine and Covenants, Section 38:11) There is only one shining ray of
 hope, one glimmer of light in the darkness.  And that is the Church of
 Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint, the restoration of the true doctrines of
 Jesus Christ.

 There are good people in the other churches.  Because of the Holy Ghost
 these good people do not believe everything their ministers tell them.  But
 the religion those ministers teach, the doctrines they learned in the
 seminaries and post divinity degree programs, are false.  And it is evil to
 teach them, just as it is a fatal mistake to believe them.

 True, the growing darkness is not a perfect darkness.  There are still some
 vestiges of truth among the other sects.  That is why President Hinckley,
 and every prophet before him, tells those of other religions to keep the
 truth that they have and let us add to it.  But let there be no mistake,
 the doctrine taught by their religious leaders is evil.  It is evil because
 it perverts the right way of the Lord.  And in many cases, perhaps most, it
 does not prepare them for our missionaries.  Rather it hardens them in
 their wrong way.

 Your friend and brother,
 John W. Redelfs, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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--
Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland

Guns don’t kill people; people with guns kill people

Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author’s employer,
nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.

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RE: [ZION] You Just Don't Get It

2002-10-29 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-Marc-
 Are there people here who defend apostate sects? Or is this a
 high council talk ;-)

Actually, I agree with John in this. It's one thing to say that 
some/many/most/all religions contain truths. It's quite another to say 
that God directed that they be established as a sort of halfway house 
for sinners in their journey to him. The former seems obvious; the 
latter is directly contrary to my understanding of God's dealings with 
us. Yes, good and honest men and women, working through the light of 
Christ, can bring to pass good works. That does not mean that those 
works, be they social contributions or religious organizations, are 
inspired by God, approved of him, or granted any special status outside 
what the Lord told Joseph Smith about the creeds of his (and our) day.

I would not choose to lead into a conversation with a non-member by 
citing this fact, however. In some instances, our similarities are much 
more important than our differences. But let's not be deceived into 
believing that Such-and-such Church or sect or religion has been set up 
under the inspiration of God for the edification of his children. I 
disbelieve that, and in fact believe it to be in direct contradiction to 
our teachings, as I mentioned above.

Stephen

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