Re: [ZION] Danites
Gramps, this is interesting. Of course, as you said, it is all speculation, and I might add, wild speculation at that. What you describe sounds more like Gadianton robbers than Saints. The Lord does not need a vast amount of wealth to be turned over at some point, of this I am quite certain. I also don't believe that the Lord needs a band of Samurai warriors ready and willing to kill whomever the Lord wants killed. Do you? Really? Jon - Original Message - From: Grampa Bill in Savannah [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 7:58 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Danites [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've read the official stuff from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism and such. Don't want the outrageous whispers. Door #2, our whispers. === Grampa Bill whispers: They were/are real. Special Operations group for the Council of the Fifty. Co50 is another shadowy organization. Set up by Joseph Smith, their mission is seldom really clear, If you read the minutes and comments of its members, there seems to be confusion. Some even thought the Fifty was to take the lead of the Church after JS's martyrdom. Almost childish ramblings and jockeying for position. Last meeting in late 1800s after which it dissolved. I don't believe a word of it. Co50 was undeniably real. JS spent much time and effort establishing it (and JS didn't waste his time). Purpose is less clear but seems that even as the Church is to prepare the world spiritually for Christ's return, the Co50 was/is to prepare the world politically and economically. I believe that it became expedient to do this in a very quiet discreet manner and so the group mocked itself and publicly dissolved while continuing its work unseen by the world. I suspecct that a great deal of the world's wealth and resources are controlled today by the Co50 awaiting the time to publicly turn it over to the Lord and His prophet. If the Co50 was what it appeared to be, s group of buffoons who sqabbled and fought until it fell apart, then JS spent a lot of time and energy on what became a total failure. Can't believe that. Was real/is real. Back to Danites or Avenging Angels. I believe they did/do what had/has to be done. That does NOT mean midnight visits to everybody whose testimony was/is weak or who was reluctant to allow his daughter become a plural wife of one of the Bretheren. Did/do they have a license to kill? Probably, but used EXTREMELY infrequently, and only when the necessity approached/s that of Nephi wasting Laban. Today, I 'spect there is some shifting back and forth between Church Security and the Danites with Church Security providing a training ground and a ripe field for recruitment of Danite operatives. All of the above is probably merely the fevered ravings of a somewhat delusional old man. Only the Danites themselves (if they exist), the First Presidency, the Fifty, and the Executive Committee (the three with the most seniority) of the Twelve are likely to know for certain. Love y'all, Grampa Bill in Savannah // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Danites
I know. Isn't it too bad we're often plagued with their legacy? Stacy. At 04:12 AM 06/20/2003 +0800, you wrote: The Danites did exist but were neither condoned nor organized by Joseph Smith. They were bad guys. Anyone who wants to know more can either use Google, or if that gives too many leads to follow up then ask and I will post more. Danites were bad. Not Christian. Mistaken. Wrong. Not LDS except in name. Not acceptable. Also, not very long lived as an organization so they didn't do all that much damage. = Mark Gregson [EMAIL PROTECTED] = -- http://www.operamail.com Get OperaMail Premium today - USD 29.99/year Powered by Outblaze // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 06/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Danites
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've read the official stuff from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism and such. Don't want the outrageous whispers. Door #2, our whispers. === Grampa Bill whispers: They were/are real. Special Operations group for the Council of the Fifty. Co50 is another shadowy organization. Set up by Joseph Smith, their mission is seldom really clear, If you read the minutes and comments of its members, there seems to be confusion. Some even thought the Fifty was to take the lead of the Church after JS's martyrdom. Almost childish ramblings and jockeying for position. Last meeting in late 1800s after which it dissolved. I don't believe a word of it. Co50 was undeniably real. JS spent much time and effort establishing it (and JS didn't waste his time). Purpose is less clear but seems that even as the Church is to prepare the world spiritually for Christ's return, the Co50 was/is to prepare the world politically and economically. I believe that it became expedient to do this in a very quiet discreet manner and so the group mocked itself and publicly dissolved while continuing its work unseen by the world. I suspecct that a great deal of the world's wealth and resources are controlled today by the Co50 awaiting the time to publicly turn it over to the Lord and His prophet. If the Co50 was what it appeared to be, s group of buffoons who sqabbled and fought until it fell apart, then JS spent a lot of time and energy on what became a total failure. Can't believe that. Was real/is real. Back to Danites or Avenging Angels. I believe they did/do what had/has to be done. That does NOT mean midnight visits to everybody whose testimony was/is weak or who was reluctant to allow his daughter become a plural wife of one of the Bretheren. Did/do they have a license to kill? Probably, but used EXTREMELY infrequently, and only when the necessity approached/s that of Nephi wasting Laban. Today, I 'spect there is some shifting back and forth between Church Security and the Danites with Church Security providing a training ground and a ripe field for recruitment of Danite operatives. All of the above is probably merely the fevered ravings of a somewhat delusional old man. Only the Danites themselves (if they exist), the First Presidency, the Fifty, and the Executive Committee (the three with the most seniority) of the Twelve are likely to know for certain. Love y'all, Grampa Bill in Savannah // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Danites
Grampa, What an excellent response! A very safe one too. :-) Paul O On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:50:24 -0700 Grampa Bill in Savannah [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Paul Osborne wrote: Do you think that Joseph Smith and his assistants were wasting their time when they created the Egyptian Alphabet Grammar and translation manuscripts? Grampa Bill replies: I do not believe they were wasting their time in that effort. Their work brought blessings to themselves and/or generations yet to come. The nature, extent, and beneficiaries of those blessings will be made clear in the Lord's due time. And for the record, I believe those documents are inspired contrary to what most LDS apologists and scholars think today. I do not argue with this assertion. I should not wish to be numbered among those who denigrate the Prophet's works. Love y'all, Grampa Bill in Savannah The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
[ZION] Danites
Who can educate me on the Danites in the late 1830's and later? Garth Hamblin Juneau // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Danites
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who can educate me on the Danites in the late 1830's and later? Have you checked the Encyclopedia of Mormonism? I don't know much about them except what I read in Harold Shindler's ORRIN PORTER ROCKWELL: SON OF THUNDER over 30 years ago. Apparently the Danites were a vigilante group organized to defend the saints during the persecutions in early Church history. There was a fellow named Dan Hickman who was one of the organizers and early leaders of the group. Because it was a secret society it never enjoyed Church sanction, and in fact it became a great liability for the Church because our enemies began making the false claim that it had been organized under priesthood authority and attributed every crime imaginable to the group. Most of this I am sure you already know. Unfortunately, I am not enough of a student of Church history to tell you more. I'm sure there must be others on the list that can add a lot more. Your friend and brother, John W. Redelfs, [EMAIL PROTECTED] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Danites
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who can educate me on the Danites in the late 1830's and later? = Grampa Bill asks: You want the official history or the whispers? If the whispers, you want our whispers or the antis? I often ask, Where are the Danites when ya' really need them? Love y'all, Grampa Bill in Savannah // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Danites
At 11:20 AM 6/18/2003, you wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who can educate me on the Danites in the late 1830's and later? Have you checked the Encyclopedia of Mormonism? I don't know much about them except what I read in Harold Shindler's ORRIN PORTER ROCKWELL: SON OF THUNDER over 30 years ago. An excellent book, that I also read about 30 years ago. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] The United States goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is a well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. If the United States took up all foreign affairs, it would become entangled in all the wars of interest and intrigue, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own soul. --President John Quincy Adams // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Danites
Danites and Avenging Angels are fun. One of the most imaginative and entertaining inventions of the anti-Mormons. Nibley has a good discussion of the topic in _Tinkling Cymbals and Sounding Brass_. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Danites
I've read the official stuff from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism and such. Don't want the outrageous whispers. Door #2, our whispers. garth -Original Message- From: Grampa Bill in Savannah [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 9:42 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ZION] Danites [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who can educate me on the Danites in the late 1830's and later? = Grampa Bill asks: You want the official history or the whispers? If the whispers, you want our whispers or the antis? I often ask, Where are the Danites when ya' really need them? Love y'all, Grampa Bill in Savannah // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
