RE: [ZION] Bruce R McConkie
At 12:24 10/8/2002 -0600, Uncle Tom wrote: >And when rendered, as it was on Saturday, >by a powerful choir in magnificent acoustical surroundings with the >right spirit the whole thing blended to become a great testimony of >Christ. It literally took my breath away to hear and experience that >hymn at that time. The clincher for this old reprobate was when they showed my friend, who sacrificed all that he had to move to Utah and sing in the choir, singing in this stunning performance. I get weepy every time I see him, because I know of his great love for what he is doing and when I see him doing something like this, where the choir members are seen to have tears streaming down their cheeks, I know that he is being rewarded for his sacrifices. Till / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Bruce R McConkie
Dans L'eglise Ici Bas was a great favorite of the French Saints in my missionary days. I have loved it ever since and led my ward choir in it whenever I got the chance. Recently we sang it at the nursing home where we sing every Sunday and one of the nursing assistants (who is a wayward Saint) came and took the hymn book (the old one) into his hands and sang with us for the first time in almost 4 years of our regular singing. Once it gets into your mind and heart the tune is indelibly upon you. The words are a bit gruesome though, but sadly accurate. Strangely I find the versification of "I Believe in Christ" to be rather pedestrian and, dare I say it, doggerel-like. The music has never bothered me. The rhymes are too contrived and there are too many clichéd phrases for my liking. You may wonder, how can a hack poet like Tom even imagine to judge someone else's verse? Well it usually just strikes me that way. I don't mean to infer that I could do any better. When you use phrases like "come what may", "with all my heart", and "my feet he plants on gospel sod" you are asking for that criticism. On the other hand the sincerity of the message is profound even if some of the phrases are trite or clichéd. And when rendered, as it was on Saturday, by a powerful choir in magnificent acoustical surroundings with the right spirit the whole thing blended to become a great testimony of Christ. It literally took my breath away to hear and experience that hymn at that time. Tom Cardston, Alberta www.matkin.com > -Original Message- > From: John W. Redelfs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: October 7, 2002 1:49 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [ZION] Bruce R McConkie > > At 01:19 PM 10/7/02 -0600 Marc A. Schindler favored us with: > >Lastly, my one big complaint: they took out a hymn very few people > remember, > >"Tho' in the Outward Church Below," whose music was composed by Mozart > himself, > >and comes from The Magic Flute, although the hymn is sung more up-tempo > than the > >tenor aria, and to completely different words. In German it was "Noch > Warten, > >Herr, in Deinem Reich," and had a rumbling, spine-tingling bass line in > the > >chorus that I guess most men just couldn't master -- except, Jo, for the > Welsh, I > >presume, and certainly for German-speaking men, who seem to be more > enthusiastic > >hymn singers than their anglophone counterparts. > > The Mozart hymn from The Magic Flute and Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing > are the two hymns that I miss the most from the old hymnal. I've even > heard the Tabernacle Choir do the latter one in General Conference after > it was removed from our hymnal. I wish they would put it back in. It is > the hymn that I whistle under my breath sometimes all day long. > > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > * > "Atheistic humanism is the opiate of the self-described > intellectuals." --Uncle Bob > * > "All my opinions are tentative pending further data." --JWR > > // > /// > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > // > /// > > / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
[ZION] Bruce R McConkie
Yes, but it is the opinion of virtually all tenors, that bass should be emasculated ;-) Sounds like you'd like to put his words to the tune of that rousing English bar song, The Star Spangled Banner. When you consider the average Conference talk Elder McConkie gave, it seems to me that the hymn, to fit him, should be sober and menacing (I recall him mentioning the nuclear holocaust that was sure to come). Not my idea of a tune for such lovely words. Second, his poem was not originally designed to be made into a song. Such a long poem does not tend towards a good hymn, with few exceptions. You won't see many hymns that long anywhere. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Marc: I've never been particularly impressed by the musical setting of "I Believe in Christ," but maybe for an odd reason. It's not that it's ill-suited to the words (although I don't think they are well-matched), it's that they're also ill-suited to the *author* of the words, BRMcC. You'd think that they'd have given even a relatively contemplative hymn by him some more, I dunno, "oomph" or something. I don't mean a potboiler, but something with some more range and and the bass line is, I'm sorry, emasculated to me. GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Bruce R McConkie
At 11:45 AM 10/7/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Elder McConkie must not have been too offended by the music, even though >like yourself I don't particularly care for it. I have a music CD that I >bought from Church distribution with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir doing the >hymn. As part of the performance, Elder McConkie does a voice over >reading the lyrics while the music plays in the background. John - what is the title of the CD? Is it a current one? Available? Sheri -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Bruce R McConkie
At 01:19 PM 10/7/02 -0600 Marc A. Schindler favored us with: >You don't do either species a favour by calling a grizzly bear a panda.* > >*actually the term "grizzly bear" was allegedly applied to Pres. Packer by Elder >Oaks, but I've never been one to let the truth get in the way of a good story. Yes, by that traitor, Steve Benson who was a traitor to his family, his Church and his God. I sure hope he repents before he has to stand before the Judge. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Bruce R McConkie
At 01:19 PM 10/7/02 -0600 Marc A. Schindler favored us with: >I've never been particularly impressed by the musical setting of "I Believe in >Christ," but maybe for an odd reason. It's not that it's ill-suited to the words >(although I don't think they are well-matched), it's that they're also ill-suited >to the *author* of the words, BRMcC. You'd think that they'd have given even a >relatively contemplative hymn by him some more, I dunno, "oomph" or something. I >don't mean a potboiler, but something with some more range and and the bass line >is, I'm sorry, emasculated to me. Elder McConkie must not have been too offended by the music, even though like yourself I don't particularly care for it. I have a music CD that I bought from Church distribution with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir doing the hymn. As part of the performance, Elder McConkie does a voice over reading the lyrics while the music plays in the background. I don't think that Elder McConkie really had as much "oomph" as some saints believe. He was a kind and gentle man just like his father-in-law. But he preached the doctrines without any candy coating. And since he was generally speaking scripture as moved upon by the Holy Ghost, I suppose he thought his preaching ought to be couched in "scriptural" language in much the same way that we are all encouraged to say "thee" and "thou" when we pray. A lot of members don't realize it but the language of the King James Version is like that. It was "scriptural" language even at the time it was written. People didn't really talk like that at the time. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] * "Atheistic humanism is the opiate of the self-described intellectuals." --Uncle Bob * "All my opinions are tentative pending further data." --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Bruce R McConkie
At 01:19 PM 10/7/02 -0600 Marc A. Schindler favored us with: >Lastly, my one big complaint: they took out a hymn very few people remember, >"Tho' in the Outward Church Below," whose music was composed by Mozart himself, >and comes from The Magic Flute, although the hymn is sung more up-tempo than the >tenor aria, and to completely different words. In German it was "Noch Warten, >Herr, in Deinem Reich," and had a rumbling, spine-tingling bass line in the >chorus that I guess most men just couldn't master -- except, Jo, for the Welsh, I >presume, and certainly for German-speaking men, who seem to be more enthusiastic >hymn singers than their anglophone counterparts. The Mozart hymn from The Magic Flute and Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing are the two hymns that I miss the most from the old hymnal. I've even heard the Tabernacle Choir do the latter one in General Conference after it was removed from our hymnal. I wish they would put it back in. It is the hymn that I whistle under my breath sometimes all day long. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] * "Atheistic humanism is the opiate of the self-described intellectuals." --Uncle Bob * "All my opinions are tentative pending further data." --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Bruce R McConkie
I'm not the most musical person around (although I certainly know what I like to listen to and have have fairly wide tastes, from Zap Mama to Mozart to Ian Tyson to Enya to U2), so don't always feel qualified to comment on a topic like this. LURKERS TAKE NOTE: but I'm not going to let that stop me from venturing an opinion, even if it gets torn to shreds by those who know more about music than I do. I've never been particularly impressed by the musical setting of "I Believe in Christ," but maybe for an odd reason. It's not that it's ill-suited to the words (although I don't think they are well-matched), it's that they're also ill-suited to the *author* of the words, BRMcC. You'd think that they'd have given even a relatively contemplative hymn by him some more, I dunno, "oomph" or something. I don't mean a potboiler, but something with some more range and and the bass line is, I'm sorry, emasculated to me. You don't do either species a favour by calling a grizzly bear a panda.* *actually the term "grizzly bear" was allegedly applied to Pres. Packer by Elder Oaks, but I've never been one to let the truth get in the way of a good story. Speaking of good stories, here's one I've told here before. You have Pres. Thomas S. Monson personally to thank for "Hark all Ye Nations" (p. 264, I think). It was always in the German hymnbook as "Sehet Ihr Völker!" and missionaries just loved it. Elder Monson loved it, too, and he came to Germany often -- as most people know by know, especially after the comments about the rededication of the Freiberg Temple made yesterday, Elders Monson and Hinckley used to make numerous trips behind the Iron Curtain in preparation for the day it would fall, and once, in mid-1974, they were in Munich on their way to Dresden. We had a 2-zone missionary conference planned, and Elder Monson worked with the APs and myself to put together the program. He insisted that it close with Sehet Ihr Völker, saying he knew of no other hymn that could leave missionaries with a dance in their step and the spirit in their hearts at the end of a conference like that one. Later, while we were talking alone (I was making preparations for a visit he was going to be making to London on boy scout business) he said, "You know, there's a new Music Committee that's been struck, and we hope to have a new hymnbook in 5 years or so." This was totally news to me, but he continued, "and if I have any influence -- and given that I'm the chairman, I might -- " and he broke into that broad, infectious grin he's famous for, "'Sehet Ihr Völker' is going to be translated into English and included in the new English hymnbook." Say what you will about the hymn's musical sophistication, or lack thereof -- but if you can get a roomful of 19-21-year olds to belt it out, you got a winner! I actually worked a bit with the Music Committee because at first they wanted to update the patriotic songs section at the back to represent the growth of the Church in anglophone countries other than the US and the UK. I even sent them the new words to O Canada! when it changed in the early 80s (it had too many "We stand on guard for thee"'s, so one of them was replaced with "God keep our land glorious and free") but by then they'd been overwhelmed by this approach. It wasn't just Canada now, it was Australia (Advance Australia Fair), New Zealand (God Bless New Zealand), South Africa (whose new national anthem is mixed: English and Zulu!), Nigeria, Ghana...who am I missing? But you get the point. And besides, "God Save the King[/Queen]" is actually the Royal Anthem*, not the national anthem anyway, of any country except England (ie, not in Scotland), but even in England, it's now more popular to use that as a royal anthem and use "Land of Hope and Glory" as an unofficial national anthem (Jo, am I right?) More comparable to "Hail to the Chief" in the US than "the Star Spangled Banner." So they made add-in pages available, and Canadian units would order O Canada, Aussies Advance Australia Fair, and so on. So outside the United States, in most English-speaking countries, we have a hymn number you don't: 342. *Also, singing the royal anthem can be politically problematic in some countries. You'd be met with stone silence in a Quebec francophone ward or branch if you tried to get them to sing it [even in French -- and anyway QEII is fluently francophone, so that's not the issue per se], and even many anglophones would rather not sing it. I don't find it offensive, but I just don't think there's any room for a foreign monarchy in our country anymore. I'm not a republican, either -- I like the constitutional monarchy, and my polisci prof at BYU, Stewart Grow, said he preferred it, as a "honing" or "tweaking" of the US system, except that it's eroding today (who's system isn't?) and becoming more "presidential" without the checks and balances a true presidential system has. I date this back, symbolically, to the day when Mila Mulroney, Bryan Mulr
[ZION] Bruce R McConkie
Well, as a tenor, I love the tune. The tenor's part is wonderful with great climaxes at just the right spots. It makes me feel like I'm soaring as I sing over the rest of the harmony. Wonderful. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe JWR: I love Elder McConkie, and I love the words to that hymn. But I think they could have found better music for it. The tune doesn't measure to the lyrics. Of course that is just my opinion, and it is just a matter of taste. John W. Redelfs GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Bruce R McConkie
At 07:35 PM 10/5/02 +, Tom Matkin wrote: >I'm just here in Salt Lake in my mother's missionary apartment about a >block from the Conference Center. One of the most striking moments in >this morning's session was the choir's rendition of "I Believe in >Christ". Which always puts me in mind of Elder McConkie. I love Elder McConkie, and I love the words to that hymn. But I think they could have found better music for it. The tune doesn't measure to the lyrics. Of course that is just my opinion, and it is just a matter of taste. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] * For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. (Ephesians 6:12) * "All my opinions are tentative pending further data." --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Bruce R McConkie
Paul Osborne wrote: > Conference is coming!! > > "But I shall not know any better then than I know now that he is God's > Almighty Son, that he is our Savior and Redeemer, and that salvation > comes in and through his atoning blood and in no other way." (Bruce R. > McConkie) I'm just here in Salt Lake in my mother's missionary apartment about a block from the Conference Center. One of the most striking moments in this morning's session was the choir's rendition of "I Believe in Christ". Which always puts me in mind of Elder McConkie. At the end of the choir number I was so captivated that I said "Wow" outloud. I hope I didn't disturb the people all around me. The music is really marvelous in the Conference Centre. Tom > > Paul O > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Bruce R McConkie
Conference is coming!! "But I shall not know any better then than I know now that he is God's Almighty Son, that he is our Savior and Redeemer, and that salvation comes in and through his atoning blood and in no other way." (Bruce R. McConkie) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
