Re: [Zope] Re: Frustrated with Python and Frameworks. Zope, Grok, , Django, CherryPy
On Dec 3, 2007 1:59 PM, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, On Dec 1, 2007 7:34 PM, Sascha Welter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 09:24:25PM +0100) Martijn Faassen wrote/schrieb/egrapse: I don't think the technology is the most work here. We need someone to go through and create the content. Even a simple web-page listing interesting products and where to find them would already be tremendous progress. Content will be our challenge, let's not worry about technology too much, which should be in good hands. How about http://www.contentmanagementsoftware.info/ It doesn't have everything, but I found it to be useful some times. The list of Zope products looks quite nice! Who maintains this site? Quintagroup? I wonder whether they'd be willing to have someone take the Zope related list, go through it and edit it, and host it on zope.org (when *that* is ready). I've cc-ed Myroslav at quintagroup. :) Regards, Martijn Hi Martijn, I need to say that we had hard time lately gathering and updating the contentmanagementsoftware.info and we are running short on hands. The most we can propose is we can generate a XML export (or Marshall) of our existing Zope products directory if it can be useful in anyway. Regards, Volodymyr. -- Volodymyr Cherepanyak e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype : callto://chervol?chat ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: Frustrated with Python and Frameworks. Zope, Grok, , Django, CherryPy
(Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 09:24:25PM +0100) Martijn Faassen wrote/schrieb/egrapse: I don't think the technology is the most work here. We need someone to go through and create the content. Even a simple web-page listing interesting products and where to find them would already be tremendous progress. Content will be our challenge, let's not worry about technology too much, which should be in good hands. How about http://www.contentmanagementsoftware.info/ It doesn't have everything, but I found it to be useful some times. Regards, Sascha ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: Frustrated with Python and Frameworks. Zope, Grok, , Django, CherryPy
Hey, On Nov 29, 2007 8:43 PM, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote: the work of collecting interesting Zope 2 products, contacting the authors (not strictly necessary but always a good thing to do) and checking them in, possibly cleaning things up here and there. Well, I think is is fine for products where the original maintainer has gone away and the original repository is no longer available, but I think that having multiple forks on products with active repositories is asking for trouble. Of course, so we should avoid this by trying to contact the original developer(s). I guess I wasn't clear about 'not strictly necessary'; I'd consider it less necessary if there has been no development for years, but of even then sending off an email makes sense. It might not make sense to wait indefinitely for an answer, however. I would have thought the key thing would be to build something like the cheeseshop but for zope products. But that's really one of the key things that zope.org should be, no? Maybe http://products.zope.org would be a simpler thing to build and get running? I think a Plone site should be able to run something like this, as plone.org does, right? Anyway, I don't think the technology is the most work here. We need someone to go through and create the content. Even a simple web-page listing interesting products and where to find them would already be tremendous progress. Content will be our challenge, let's not worry about technology too much, which should be in good hands. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: Frustrated with Python and Frameworks. Zope, Grok, , Django, CherryPy
Hey, On Nov 28, 2007 11:18 PM, Tres Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote: Hey, On Nov 28, 2007 12:16 AM, Martijn Jacobs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We could also consider putting them in some kind of collective-like SVN repository so that people can make changes when they need to. I think this is a great idea as it works with the Plone collective this way as well. Just to make it utterly clear: this stuff won't happen by itself. We need a bunch of self-driven volunteers to do this work: look up the relevant codebases, contact their authors, check them into a SVN if they look orphaned (if they aren't of course don't fork them!) and make an index page describing what is going on. This can be done independently from zope.org, and should later become part of the zope.org website. You will need a SVN repository somewhere. svn.zope.org could be used if you have committer access, but it would be somewhat restricted as GPL-ed products can't be placed in there. Anyway, all these questions I'm thinking of now someone else should take the lead on, as it won't be me. :) For clarity, nobody but a ZC employee (at present) is supposed to be checking in any code with any license other than the ZPL; in the future, such a checkin will need to be approved by some agent / organ of the Zope Foundation. Thanks, I had forgotten about that. Anyway, it could be any SVN repository - and this project will only happen if one or two volunteers do the work of collecting interesting Zope 2 products, contacting the authors (not strictly necessary but always a good thing to do) and checking them in, possibly cleaning things up here and there. I know for one Formulator could be a candidate. I haven't been doing much with it for quite a while now. Needs to be squared with Infrae, which is doing some low-level maintenance on it, and it's safe in the Infrae SVN, but should there be a good new home and enough volunteers to help maintain it, it's quite possible Infrae would be interested in having it most. I'm not speaking for Infrae here, just as the original author of Formulator. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: Frustrated with Python and Frameworks. Zope, Grok, , Django, CherryPy
Hey, On Nov 29, 2007 12:53 AM, Philipp von Weitershausen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tres Seaver wrote: [snip] For clarity, nobody but a ZC employee (at present) is supposed to be checking in any code with any license other than the ZPL; in the future, such a checkin will need to be approved by some agent / organ of the Zope Foundation. It's actually even more restrictive than that: If I read paragraph 5 of the contributor agreement [1] right, then whoever checks things in must have the intellectual property over the code, otherwise s/he would not be able to donate half of it to ZC. So effectively you can't check in somebody else's code, even if it's covered by the ZPL. All right. Good point too! The svn.zope.org repository doesn't sound like a good place then for this project. If anyone wants to pick this project up, we should arrange something else. I'm sure that's quite doable, however. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: Frustrated with Python and Frameworks. Zope, Grok, , Django, CherryPy
Martijn Faassen wrote: the work of collecting interesting Zope 2 products, contacting the authors (not strictly necessary but always a good thing to do) and checking them in, possibly cleaning things up here and there. Well, I think is is fine for products where the original maintainer has gone away and the original repository is no longer available, but I think that having multiple forks on products with active repositories is asking for trouble. I would have thought the key thing would be to build something like the cheeseshop but for zope products. But that's really one of the key things that zope.org should be, no? Maybe http://products.zope.org would be a simpler thing to build and get running? cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Re: Frustrated with Python and Frameworks. Zope, Grok, , Django, CherryPy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martijn Faassen wrote: Hey, On Nov 28, 2007 12:16 AM, Martijn Jacobs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We could also consider putting them in some kind of collective-like SVN repository so that people can make changes when they need to. I think this is a great idea as it works with the Plone collective this way as well. Just to make it utterly clear: this stuff won't happen by itself. We need a bunch of self-driven volunteers to do this work: look up the relevant codebases, contact their authors, check them into a SVN if they look orphaned (if they aren't of course don't fork them!) and make an index page describing what is going on. This can be done independently from zope.org, and should later become part of the zope.org website. You will need a SVN repository somewhere. svn.zope.org could be used if you have committer access, but it would be somewhat restricted as GPL-ed products can't be placed in there. Anyway, all these questions I'm thinking of now someone else should take the lead on, as it won't be me. :) For clarity, nobody but a ZC employee (at present) is supposed to be checking in any code with any license other than the ZPL; in the future, such a checkin will need to be approved by some agent / organ of the Zope Foundation. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHTekj+gerLs4ltQ4RAoD8AKCjJ7poD7/lPvkOlOnoXhTxe/UIzQCbBZgw Oc5Hzbv9zE7uuAZMrhf1GbU= =9Fjb -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Re: Frustrated with Python and Frameworks. Zope, Grok, , Django, CherryPy
Tres Seaver wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote: Hey, On Nov 28, 2007 12:16 AM, Martijn Jacobs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We could also consider putting them in some kind of collective-like SVN repository so that people can make changes when they need to. I think this is a great idea as it works with the Plone collective this way as well. Just to make it utterly clear: this stuff won't happen by itself. We need a bunch of self-driven volunteers to do this work: look up the relevant codebases, contact their authors, check them into a SVN if they look orphaned (if they aren't of course don't fork them!) and make an index page describing what is going on. This can be done independently from zope.org, and should later become part of the zope.org website. You will need a SVN repository somewhere. svn.zope.org could be used if you have committer access, but it would be somewhat restricted as GPL-ed products can't be placed in there. Anyway, all these questions I'm thinking of now someone else should take the lead on, as it won't be me. :) For clarity, nobody but a ZC employee (at present) is supposed to be checking in any code with any license other than the ZPL; in the future, such a checkin will need to be approved by some agent / organ of the Zope Foundation. It's actually even more restrictive than that: If I read paragraph 5 of the contributor agreement [1] right, then whoever checks things in must have the intellectual property over the code, otherwise s/he would not be able to donate half of it to ZC. So effectively you can't check in somebody else's code, even if it's covered by the ZPL. [1] http://www.zope.org/DevHome/CVS/Contributor.pdf ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Re: Frustrated with Python and Frameworks. Zope, Grok, Django, CherryPy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chetan Kumar wrote: On 11/27/07, Rene B [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nobody seems to be adding to zope 2 because the gurus have learnt some lessons from Zope2 and are hence developing something new from scratch (Zope 3). Most of the recent additions to Zope2 have been made in two areas: - Improved extensibility via the Zope Component Architecture, by way of Zope3 and Five. - Add-on products such as Plone, CMF, Silva, etc. The principle remains: Find the best tool for your needs. Always good advice. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHTH4V+gerLs4ltQ4RAgX/AJwPLzcKgLMMtLu361M8XK9UkxJ/VACfYyF7 Ik26Ys6eTgwusElQxi3meX4= =29ZE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Re: Frustrated with Python and Frameworks. Zope, Grok, , Django, CherryPy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Aaron Maupin wrote: Rene B [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm beginning to think there's nothing out there for a newbie python programmer like myself. I'm a Network Admin that likes programming but doesn't have the time to get really proficient at it. ... Out of all the ones I've researched I like Zope 2 the best. Not sure why. I want some thing easy. I like DTML. It's easy. I know why ZPT has it's advantages but for ease of use it doesn't come close to DTML. Most people like me wont be building complex web sites and I'd be the only working on it meaning I'll do the HTML layout and code the dynamic portions of it. So I don't' need to worry about an HTML editor getting confused with the dynamic languages mixed in blah blah blah. Then your search is over. Just use Zope 2. I'm in almost exactly your position. I learned DTML because at the time the Zope tutorials all taught it first (they probably still do), and since I'm never going to be editing code except by hand, I don't worry about DTML tags getting messed up. Also, unless something has changed you need to use DTML somewhat for ZSQL methods. And anything that's tricky to do in DTML/ZPT should probably be in a Python script anyway. Frankly, I've created half a dozen Zope sites over the last four years, two of them fairly active medium-sized sites ( letsdating.jp and gamesocks.com ), and Zope is basically just a fancy-pants container for my Python scripts. It works beautifully. I know I'm not using the full power of Zope, but as a container for Python scripts and with the power of acquisition - one of my absolute favorite aspects of Zope 2 - it makes development a snap. This is indeed the sweet spot for the Zope2 TTW development model, and I still use it myself, but with two caveats: - I *never* push a site to production using the TTW technologies unless I am personally committeed to maintaining it in perpetuity, because TTW code is near-impossible to collaborate on. - I *never* do more than prototype with TTW code if I plan to distribute the code across more sites than the one I built it on, because the mechanisms for moving TTW code are hideously hard to get right. the use Products over TTW meme on the Zope lists is a direct result of these two fact. Being able to use filesystem tools (CVS / SVN, etc.) on the code is all part of the same meme. That meme is also why I wrote tools (FSDumper, CMFSetup/GenericSetup) to make it easier to start with a TTW prototype and later move the code (and configuration) to the filesystem. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHTICm+gerLs4ltQ4RAoS5AJ9yY8hD3Q/ovYOHQd5UeTzquHE5SACghNF5 Vz5YHDgcxJ4DdMuHkjLfnr0= =uH8A -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
