Re: [Zope] IP address and US city name

2000-12-04 Thread Stephane Bortzmeyer

On Saturday 2 December 2000, at 23 h 53, the keyboard of "Cymen Vig" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On another tangent there is an interesting RFC (1876) that documents
> an extension to the DNS record to include geographical information.
> Not useful for what you are looking for (as it probably isn't widely
> implemented and is subject to error in event of movement of the server)
> but for a company managed network it would be pretty nifty!


There is even http://www.internatif.org/bortzmeyer/query-loc/">one 
implementation for the client (for the server, it is already in BIND).




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Re: [Zope] IP address and US city name

2000-12-02 Thread Cymen Vig


> >> > > I know that IP addresses in the USA follow a strict pattern of
> >> > > geographical locations. 
> >> >Whomever told you this was wrong.
> >> No Bill. You are the one that is wrong. :)
> > 
> > Actually Hung, on this one he is right.  I owned and operated an
> > internet service provider for four years.  There is no 'strict' policy
> > of who gets what address block.  
> 
> There are a few companies out there which try to provide that service. 
> Check out www.visualroute.com , it's not too expensive and sorta
> accurate. In any event, what Michel said applies, there is no
> geographic IP map, although the initial assignment of IP space tried to
> do that (check out the old forms from nic.ddn.mil, which was in charge
> of assigning numbers before arin).

On another tangent there is an interesting RFC (1876) that documents
an extension to the DNS record to include geographical information.
Not useful for what you are looking for (as it probably isn't widely
implemented and is subject to error in event of movement of the server)
but for a company managed network it would be pretty nifty!

ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc1876.txt

Cymen Vig
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [Zope] IP address and US city name

2000-12-02 Thread thomas

On  2 Dec, Michel Pelletier wrote:
> Hung Jung Lu wrote:
>> 
>> >From: Bill Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >Hung Jung Lu wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Hi,
>> > > I know that IP addresses in the USA follow a strict pattern of
>> > > geographical locations. 
>> >Whomever told you this was wrong.
>> No Bill. You are the one that is wrong. :)
> 
> Actually Hung, on this one he is right.  I owned and operated an
> internet service provider for four years.  There is no 'strict' policy
> of who gets what address block.  
[snip]
> 
> -Michel
> 

There are a few companies out there which try to provide that service. 
Check out www.visualroute.com , it's not too expensive and sorta
accurate. In any event, what Michel said applies, there is no
geographic IP map, although the initial assignment of IP space tried to
do that (check out the old forms from nic.ddn.mil, which was in charge
of assigning numbers before arin).

-Th


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Re: [Zope] IP address and US city name

2000-12-02 Thread Hung Jung Lu

>From: Michel Pelletier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Actually Hung, on this one he is right.  I owned and operated an
>...
>That said, there is a company that has intrusivly scanned the whole
>...
>service is very expensive, not 100% accurate (because neworks move and

It happens that I saw with my own eyes in a vendor's demo how a well-known 
product (and you are right on the "very expensive" part, but nowadays I seem 
to use only the "very expensive" software products) pinpointed visitors down 
to the city level. I asked the vendor how this was done and he, obviously 
unaware of the details, gave me the answer that I have mentioned. This was 
not even recent development. So I just thought it was common knowledge.

thanks and regards,

Hung Jung



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Re: [Zope] IP address and US city name

2000-12-02 Thread Michel Pelletier

Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> 
> >From: Bill Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I know that IP addresses in the USA follow a strict pattern of
> >geographical
> > > locations. (Most other countries don't do that.) Does anyone know where
> >I
> > > can get a copy of the table of IP addresses vs. city names?
> >
> >Whomever told you this was wrong.
> 
> No Bill. You are the one that is wrong. :)

Actually Hung, on this one he is right.  I owned and operated an
internet service provider for four years.  There is no 'strict' policy
of who gets what address block.  Random companies in random cities at
random times ask for, and recieve, random chunks of classless address
space based on their need.  It is true that this chunk of address space
is then _usually_ assigned to only one geographic location, but there is
no strict policy and no one keeps track of it in a  big-brother database
'table' that maps this information for you.  

The companies themselves may keep track of which addresses go where, but
they are not required to report this to anyone or to update some global
directory when they change their network setup or move stuff around. 
Also, at the highest level are large organizations, phone companies,
universities, government organizations, etc.  In the case of companies,
these organizations usually get a huge chunk of address space and them
sell it off to other people, like, for example, GTE (a phone company)
sells its addresses to Genuity (an ISP) which sells its addresses to
Nap.net (an ISP) which sells its addresses to Collective Intelligence
(the ISP I used to own) which sells its addresses to Dialogue, Inc. (an
ISP owned by my buddy Adam).  Adam was not require to report to me what
or where or who he sold his addresses to, similarly I was not required
to report that informtaion to Nap.net, who, in turn I presume, is not
required to report the information on upward and so on.  At the very
highest level, the only information know is "GTE owns 200.x.x.x to
220.x.x.x".  GTE is, geographicaly, the biggest phone company in the US,
serving almost all of the rural mid-west.

That said, there is a company that has intrusivly scanned the whole
internet (globally, not just the US) and claims to have, using
deduction, figured out where all the addresses are.  I'm assuming their
service is very expensive, not 100% accurate (because neworks move and
get rewired) and it is targeted towards advertisers:

http://slashdot.org/yro/00/11/06/0521235.shtml

-Michel

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Re: [Zope] IP address and US city name

2000-12-02 Thread marc lindahl

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/11/06/0521235&mode=thread

> From: "Hung Jung Lu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 08:27:32 -0800
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [Zope] IP address and US city name
> 
>> From: Bill Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Hung Jung Lu wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I know that IP addresses in the USA follow a strict pattern of
>> geographical
>>> locations. (Most other countries don't do that.) Does anyone know where
>> I
>>> can get a copy of the table of IP addresses vs. city names?
>> 
>> Whomever told you this was wrong.
> 
> No Bill. You are the one that is wrong. :)
> 
> regards,
> 
> Hung Jung
> 
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Re: [Zope] IP address and US city name

2000-12-02 Thread richard lanham

Even if true, how would that be useful if ISPs are assigning IPs from their
servers to clients all over the country. Now you know where the ISP's
servers are. Even static dsl IPs come from the ISP's lot.

- Original Message -
From: "Hung Jung Lu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Zope] IP address and US city name


> >From: Bill Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I know that IP addresses in the USA follow a strict pattern of
> >geographical
> > > locations. (Most other countries don't do that.) Does anyone know
where
> >I
> > > can get a copy of the table of IP addresses vs. city names?
> >
> >Whomever told you this was wrong.
>
> No Bill. You are the one that is wrong. :)
>
> regards,
>
> Hung Jung
>
>

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Re: [Zope] IP address and US city name

2000-12-02 Thread Hung Jung Lu

>From: Bill Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I know that IP addresses in the USA follow a strict pattern of 
>geographical
> > locations. (Most other countries don't do that.) Does anyone know where 
>I
> > can get a copy of the table of IP addresses vs. city names?
>
>Whomever told you this was wrong.

No Bill. You are the one that is wrong. :)

regards,

Hung Jung

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Re: [Zope] IP address and US city name

2000-12-02 Thread Bill Anderson

Hung Jung Lu wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I know that IP addresses in the USA follow a strict pattern of geographical
> locations. (Most other countries don't do that.) Does anyone know where I
> can get a copy of the table of IP addresses vs. city names?

Whomever told you this was wrong.


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[Zope] IP address and US city name

2000-12-02 Thread Hung Jung Lu

Hi,

I know that IP addresses in the USA follow a strict pattern of geographical 
locations. (Most other countries don't do that.) Does anyone know where I 
can get a copy of the table of IP addresses vs. city names?

regards,

Hung Jung

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