Re: [Zope-dev] [ZEO] protocol problem
Leonardo Rochael Almeida writes: > On Mon, 2002-02-25 at 05:44, Dieter Maurer wrote: > > We use Zope 2.5 together with ZEO 1.0b5 and there seems to be > > a problem with the communication between Zope and ZEO. > > > > Several times a day, Zope reports that it has been disconnected form > > storage (a warning), that it tries to reconnect but fails > > due to "error 131, 'Connection reset by peer'". > > If your ZEO Client (ZC) is behind a masquerading firewall or other NAT > (with your ZEO Server (ZS) on the other side, obviously) you might be > getting a timeout from your firewall. If the ZC doesn't communicate with > the ZS for some time, the masquerading firewall might lose track of the > connection and when the ZC finally sends some data, the firewall sends > back an ICMP packet to the effect: 'Connection reset by peer' because it > doesn't know what the ZC is talking about. Thank you for your suggestions! There is indeed a firewall between ZC and ZS, although it does no masquerading or NAT. But, the problem usually happens when load is light. Therefore, your assumption may be true that the problem happens when "ZC doens't communicate with the ZS for some time". > > ZEO on the other hand reports that it had opened the connection > > and keeps it open until Zope stops. > > The ZS will never know about the closed connection because (I believe) > it only sends data closely after the ZC sends data (so the firewall > knows the connection and won't complain). > > If this is the case, you might want to increase the timeout on your > firewall or find a way to make the ZC talk to the ZS regularly so as to > keep the connection alive (it would be ideal if the ZEO protocol had a > keep-alive or PING or noop command that could be regularly sent down the > wire). I think, it has a "noop". Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] re: zope3 tutorial (was Re: Zope vs. Cocoon)
On 25 Feb 2002, seb bacon wrote: > But IMO the tutorial doesn't really demonstrate *why* the component > architecture is a Good Thing. If you're not familiar with the design > patterns used, then I suspect it looks overly verbose and fairly > opaque. If you are familiar with GoF or suchlike, then you'll drool. Maybe reading GoF should be listed as a pre-req. I'm about 1/2 serious. --RDM ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zope vs. Cocoon
On Mon, 2002-02-25 at 14:07, Steve Alexander wrote: > Max M wrote: > > seb bacon wrote: > > > >> Architecturally, it is *excellent*, and I'm very excited about it. I > >> could wax on for hours, but I won't right now. > >> > > > > > > I only wish somebody would ... It is hard to figure it out fully by > > reading only the online documentation. > > Do the tutorial: > > http://cvs.zope.org/Docs/Docs.tar.gz?tarball=1 But IMO the tutorial doesn't really demonstrate *why* the component architecture is a Good Thing. If you're not familiar with the design patterns used, then I suspect it looks overly verbose and fairly opaque. If you are familiar with GoF or suchlike, then you'll drool. I've got to go home now, but here's my very personal take on why the Component Architecture is Cool: I'd say its biggest promises are flexible, maintainable code (no subclassing of BoboFooMixin and StupidSimpleFace); interoperable Products; and whole new vistas for administration tools and interfaces. But that's quite a personal take. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] [ZEO] protocol problem
On Mon, 2002-02-25 at 05:44, Dieter Maurer wrote: > [...] > > We use Zope 2.5 together with ZEO 1.0b5 and there seems to be > a problem with the communication between Zope and ZEO. > > Several times a day, Zope reports that it has been disconnected form > storage (a warning), that it tries to reconnect but fails > due to "error 131, 'Connection reset by peer'". If your ZEO Client (ZC) is behind a masquerading firewall or other NAT (with your ZEO Server (ZS) on the other side, obviously) you might be getting a timeout from your firewall. If the ZC doesn't communicate with the ZS for some time, the masquerading firewall might lose track of the connection and when the ZC finally sends some data, the firewall sends back an ICMP packet to the effect: 'Connection reset by peer' because it doesn't know what the ZC is talking about. > > ZEO on the other hand reports that it had opened the connection > and keeps it open until Zope stops. The ZS will never know about the closed connection because (I believe) it only sends data closely after the ZC sends data (so the firewall knows the connection and won't complain). If this is the case, you might want to increase the timeout on your firewall or find a way to make the ZC talk to the ZS regularly so as to keep the connection alive (it would be ideal if the ZEO protocol had a keep-alive or PING or noop command that could be regularly sent down the wire). -- Ideas don't stay in some minds very long because they don't like solitary confinement. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zope vs. Cocoon
I asked the tomcat mailing list more than a year ago what they thought about zope and got no response what so ever To be short: -what jsp misses is object based authorization like zope. -what zope misses is good documentation, and something like the catilina reactor what we did: we moved from JSP to ZOPE February 2001 and never looked back. Sloot. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zope vs. Cocoon
I agree, I've been lookin for a "Zope site design guidelines" like chapter in Zope site when I was a newbie but did not find consistent and comprehensive information. You can only find various Howto in that matter. Please correct me if I'm wrong. So I made some spaghetti sites in my first 2 months of Zope practice before knowing how to place the "best objects at the best place". --Gilles - Original Message - From: "seb bacon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zope vs. Cocoon ... : : What Zope lacks IMO is good best practice guidance and detailed : developer documentation, though it's getting there now. Without best : practice guidance, developers tend to choose the first development model : they see, which at the moment tends towards heaps of quick-and-dirty : through the web hacks and tricks. This does give the illusion of Zope : being an 'environment' rather than a 'framework', and encourages : Zopish-looking sites, too. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] User Name in python script
Sebastian Sippl wrote: > I need to get the name of the current user , in a python script In a recent Zope, you should be able to use: from AccessControl import getSecurityManager user = getSecurityManager().getUser() Cheers, Evan @ Zope ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] User Name in python script
Hi, I need to get the name of the current user , in a python script i know how to get it in dtml , but i cant figure out how to get it in a python script. Please help me Sebastian ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zope vs. Cocoon
At 02:07 PM 2/25/2002 +, Steve Alexander wrote: >>I only wish somebody would ... It is hard to figure it out fully by >>reading only the online documentation. > >Do the tutorial: > >http://cvs.zope.org/Docs/Docs.tar.gz?tarball=1 Well, and I'll repeat my offer from IPC10: In case you or your company cannot afford having Jim come to your place and you really want to develop on Zope 3 actively (that means you need to have some time to give to the community), I will be more than glad to give you the tutorial via the phone or some other media. I'll also will help via AIM... Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zope vs. Cocoon
Max M wrote: > seb bacon wrote: > >> Architecturally, it is *excellent*, and I'm very excited about it. I >> could wax on for hours, but I won't right now. >> > > > I only wish somebody would ... It is hard to figure it out fully by > reading only the online documentation. Do the tutorial: http://cvs.zope.org/Docs/Docs.tar.gz?tarball=1 -- Steve Alexander ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zope vs. Cocoon
seb bacon wrote: >Architecturally, it is *excellent*, and I'm very excited about it. I >could wax on for hours, but I won't right now. > I only wish somebody would ... It is hard to figure it out fully by reading only the online documentation. regards Max M ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zope vs. Cocoon
A few points I'd like to add. Before I do, a disclaimer: I've never used Cocoon, and I really like Zope. Having said that, I've used lots of other 'competing' systems, and I am able to see Zope's weak points. > > > >Some don't think this 'cloning restriction' a severe limitation, I think > >this is not a annoyance, but the *first* rule. > > > I agree that this is a very important consideration. However, I cannot > agree with your observation. Zope powers many > more sites than those of which you may be aware. Unfortunately, I > don't know too many of them personally, but here are a few: > > http://www.activestate.com > http://www.homegain.com > http://www.arielpartners.com(I couldn't resist :-) ...here's some more from our side of the pond: http://www.breastcancercare.org.uk http://www.intellident.co.uk http://www.mulberry-insurance.co.uk http://www.jubilee.gov.uk http://www.drugs.gov.uk > >Boths are fruits, as both publish web content, but Zope is a 'publishing > >environment' while Cocoon is a 'publishing framework'. > > > >An 'environment' is an application that you customize, a 'framework' is > >the foundation of your own application. I disagree: Zope is very much a framework. I've used it for a CMS, for intranets, and for online data capture. I've created applications which automatically catalog and convert Word, PDF, and various image formats which have been emailed to a mailing list as attachments. There's bug trackers, wikis, slashdot-alikes, etc... What Zope lacks IMO is good best practice guidance and detailed developer documentation, though it's getting there now. Without best practice guidance, developers tend to choose the first development model they see, which at the moment tends towards heaps of quick-and-dirty through the web hacks and tricks. This does give the illusion of Zope being an 'environment' rather than a 'framework', and encourages Zopish-looking sites, too. > >I believe that Zope is mis-placed architecturally, it's an hybrid > >between a CMS and a publishing framework. And does some of everything, > >but both poorly, compared to specialized solutions. > > > Actually, there is a CMS available for Zope: the Zope Content Management > Framework (see http://cmf.zope.org). > We chose not to use the Zope CMF because of its architecture: it is not > based on > standard XML technologies and, in our opinion, brings us too far into > the "proprietary language land." You don't have to be tied into one implementation if you're using the CMF - nothing about it is more proprietary than vanilla Zope. The default, out of the box Zope and CMF may give the impression of being a poor fit to most requirements. However, most people misunderstand that it is just an example implementation of a site built using the CMF. The actual possibilities are endless, and it's a robust and useful framework. > >1) Integrated Object-oriented database with support for full graphical > >editing of all objects > > > >Do you really want this? I don't. > > Being able to create objects which persist transactionally in a database simply by mixing in a 'Persisent' class makes development very fast and simple. If you like programming in python, you should look into the ZODB a bit more - I think you'll like it, regardless of Zope. > >Then the Cocoon strong points: > > > >1) Integration with Source Code Control System > > > >Zope is not file based, it's entirely database based. So CVS doesn't > >work on it. > > > We have made our first baby steps toward solving this problem: > http://www.zope.org/Members/arielpartners/CVSFile This is a very real concern. There are a number of ways of dealing with it. We use the FSObjects from the CMF. These are filesystem-based objects which are loaded into the database at run-time. However, we still have to use DB-only things occasionally. This is all set to change in Zope3. The plan is to have full, bidirectional mapping between the ZODB and the filesystem. > > >2) Integration with J2EE and other Java-based business logic > > > >Cocoon is a servlet, thus we get it for free. They find themselves > >completely detached from the rest of the world, even if they could > >easily use web-services to glue things. This is a clear marketing plus > >for us./listinfo/zope ) > - If Zope could be made to run under Jython (http://www.jython.org), > integration with J2EE would be virtually > a no-brainer, b/c you are already inside a Java VM. This is also a goal for Zope3 (a Jython implementation), though I'm not sure when it'll land. > >Moreover, there is no indication of internal modularity and > >extensibility, SoC-based design, IoC design, data storage abstraction... > >and no indication on caching strategies, scalability and performance > >issues. You are right that there is *way* too much magick in Zope. That is the main motivator behind Zope3, which is entirely component-driven. Architecturally, it is *excellent*, and I'm very excited ab
[Zope-dev] Re: Zope vs. Cocoon
Hello: I am the author of this paper (mea culpa! :-) and I thought I would respond to your comments. First off, thanks for thorough and thoughtful review. My responses are embedded below: Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: >First, kudos to Gianugo for finding the ask-slashdot thread about 'zope >vs. cocoon', one user suggested to take a look at > > >http://www.arielpartners.com/arielpartners/content/public/topics/technology/technologyReviews/zopeVsCocoon > >which I think is a good review of the current status of the two >projects. > >Yes, I've installed and used Zope in the past, even if I never created >something that worked with it. > >Here I will try to address the points of the article. > >- o - > >>The paper concludes that, despite a few annoying limitations, Zope >>is a much more powerful, mature, and well-documented environment >>and probably holds a one to two year lead over Cocoon and other >>similar Java-based publishing environments. >> > >This quote says it all and there are a few things that I have to admit >myself: > >1) well-documented: cocoon documentation is currently very poor compare >to Zope's or compared to other successful technologies (say PHP). It is >clear that without good docs, there is no good product. > >But Cocoon has been released final 3 months ago and it's growth rate is >clearly impressive, even for my apache experience. > >Anyway, I would venture to forecast that in a year, Cocoon will *easily* >cover this difference, also because many books are planned to appear. > This is good news. Zope now has four (English language) books out, plus two more in the works. I see there is a Cocoon book to be published in June, but from what I understand it covers the Cocoon1 architecture ? >2) mature: granted, you can't have a 3 months-old technology and >consider it 'mature'. At the same time, we've been working on this for >two years and we know where we're going. There is very little doubt that >Cocoon will mature and solidify soon. > Based on experiences with Cocoon1 and the traffic on cocoon-dev, I would agree. >3) powerful: on the technological side of things I dare to disagree with >them. Those 'few annoying limitations' they describe, I found them 'very >deep architectural mistakes'. > >They cite XSLT support, but that's nothing compared to the fact that >there is no way for you to create a Zope site without the user 'knowing >it'. No matter how hard you try, it shows. It's 'zopy', they all look >the same, much like 'this is a manila-site' > >Some don't think this 'cloning restriction' a severe limitation, I think >this is not a annoyance, but the *first* rule. > I agree that this is a very important consideration. However, I cannot agree with your observation. Zope powers many more sites than those of which you may be aware. Unfortunately, I don't know too many of them personally, but here are a few: http://www.activestate.com http://www.homegain.com http://www.arielpartners.com(I couldn't resist :-) According to news at the latest Python conference (http://www.python10.org), Zope is now powering the websites for one of the major US television networks (ABC? for the life of me, I can't remember which). Hopefully one of the Zopistas out there can help me out... >But this hits a very serious point: comparing Zope and Cocoon is like >comparing apples with oranges, technologically. > >Boths are fruits, as both publish web content, but Zope is a 'publishing >environment' while Cocoon is a 'publishing framework'. > >An 'environment' is an application that you customize, a 'framework' is >the foundation of your own application. > I might define those words differently, but be that as it may. Here is some information about the Zope architecture: - both Zope and Cocoon2 come with an example/tutorial that can be customized. Just because Zope's tutorial is more fully fledged does not mean that it cannot be as radically changed. - Zope consists of an integrated object-oriented database (ZODB) and a webserver (ZServer, based on Medusa). It is possible to use ZODB with Apache in lieu of ZServer. - Zope provides a 100% object-oriented abstraction for web publishing. URLs are turned into method calls on objects. The objects are stored in ZODB. Of course, you can create your own classes that obtain their content from the file system, rather than the ZODB (almost like a symbolic link or alias). - Any kind of python object can be stored in ZODB. You can define your own objects, or use one of their predefined classes. Therefore, you immediately have access to all the python libraries, such as the XML libraries. - Because of acquisition, you can add behavior to objects without changing their class definitions. - Because (much of) Zope content is contained in the ZODB, it is convenient to use ZServer because it provides access to objects contained in ZODB via FTP/webDAV. This makes it possible, for exampl
[Zope-dev] [ZEO] protocol problem
Not sure, whether this is the right list. If not, please advise a better
place.
We use Zope 2.5 together with ZEO 1.0b5 and there seems to be
a problem with the communication between Zope and ZEO.
Several times a day, Zope reports that it has been disconnected form
storage (a warning), that it tries to reconnect but fails
due to "error 131, 'Connection reset by peer'".
ZEO on the other hand reports that it had opened the connection
and keeps it open until Zope stops.
There is one special setup:
We check ZEO every minute for availability.
The script opens a ZEO connection and lets it load an object.
I have something like a weak impression that connection
requests coming in at about the same time might confuse ZEO.
Any information would be appreaciated.
Annotated extract from Zope logfile:
> 2002-02-24T12:01:09 PROBLEM(100) ClientStorage Disconnected from storage
> --
> 2002-02-24T12:01:09 INFO(0) client Trying to connect to server: ('ora', )
> --
> 2002-02-24T12:01:09 ERROR(200) ZODB Couldn't load state for
'\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\t\x08>'
> --
> 2002-02-24T12:01:09 INFO(0) ClientStorage Connected to storage
Here we have apparently two log messages intermingled:
The "ClientStorage Connected" and the "Error: Couldn't load state".
> Traceback (innermost last):
>File /local/home/zope/Zope/Base/lib/python/ZODB/Connection.py, line 446, in
setstate
>File /home/zope/Zope-9000/Base/lib/python/ZEO/ClientStorage.py, line 365, in
load
> (Object: ('ora', ))
>File /home/zope/Zope-9000/Base/lib/python/ZEO/zrpc.py, line 239, in __call__
> error: (131, 'Connection reset by peer')
Annotated extract from ZEO logfile:
===
> 2002-02-24T12:01:08 INFO(0) ZEO Server Close 3501648
> --
> 2002-02-24T12:01:09 INFO(0) ZEO Server Connect 3501648 ('10.19.3.10', 33017)
The connection is opened here but only closed 7 hours later when
Zope stops.
> --
> 2002-02-24T12:02:09 INFO(0) ZEO Server Connect 3501720 ('10.19.1.129', 64202)
> ..
> 2002-02-24T19:50:43 INFO(0) ZEO Server Close 3501720
> --
> 2002-02-24T19:51:33 INFO(0) ZEO Server Connect 3501720 ('10.19.3.10', 49795)
here, Zope has been stopped.
ZEO releases all "hanging" connections.
> --
> 2002-02-24T19:51:37 INFO(0) ZEO Server Close 3501648
> --
> 2002-02-24T19:51:37 INFO(0) ZEO Server Close 3501600
> --
> 2002-02-24T19:51:37 INFO(0) ZEO Server Close 3501504
Dieter
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