RE: [Zope-dev] Zope on Windows: enhancements proposed

2001-09-25 Thread Adrian Hungate

I have to disagree about the Zope (%s), I have been known to run 2 or 3 Zope
services, for different instances, and I always know that I can find them
all huddled together at the bottom of the Service Manager - Very useful.

Adrian...

--
Adrian Hungate
Try Zope -
http://www.zope.org
- You might like it.
If you do, try my Zope products -
http://www.zope.org/Members/haqa
- You might like them too!


-Original Message-
From: Andy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 25 September 2001 05:23
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Zope on Windows: enhancements proposed


 We'd like to propose that the service distributed with Zope move over to
 using our code.

Great, Im really looking forward to an improved Windows installation. But
lets get it out there play with it before anything major happens like
shipping Zope with it :)

 As a separate issue - we're curious about the naming of the Zope
installation
 - why is it called WebSite (and the Zope service Zope (WebSite))? The
name
 clashes with another product that's fairly well-known in the windows
 community originally from O'Reilly:
http://www.oreilly.com/software/index.html
 ... and since Zope is a fairly distinctive name ...

It is annoying but Zope wins there because OReilly isnt making WebSite
anymore. Its just a name, I find the Zope (%s) bit more annoying than
anything :)

 ps. happy to put this up as a project if required.

Thats probably a good idea. What about other issues such as install and
removing service easily later, STDERR logging not going to /dev/null, lack
of start menu icons and other windows issues...

Cheers
--
  Andy McKay



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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope on Windows: enhancements proposed

2001-09-25 Thread Richard Jones

On Tuesday 25 September 2001 16:26, Adrian Hungate wrote:
 I have to disagree about the Zope (%s), I have been known to run 2 or 3
 Zope services, for different instances, and I always know that I can find
 them all huddled together at the bottom of the Service Manager - Very
 useful.

So does that mean they have different names in the service manager? How do 
you configure the instances?


 Richard

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RE: [Zope-dev] Zope on Windows: enhancements proposed

2001-09-25 Thread Adrian Hungate

I edit the registry... One of my many favourite pass-times, right up there
with running out in traffic.

Seriously though, once an instance is configured, why would you want to
change it? (Assuming you get it right that is)

Adrian...

--
Adrian Hungate
Try Zope -
http://www.zope.org
- You might like it.
If you do, try my Zope products -
http://www.zope.org/Members/haqa
- You might like them too!


-Original Message-
From: Richard Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 25 September 2001 07:33
To: Adrian Hungate; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Zope on Windows: enhancements proposed


On Tuesday 25 September 2001 16:26, Adrian Hungate wrote:
 I have to disagree about the Zope (%s), I have been known to run 2 or 3
 Zope services, for different instances, and I always know that I can find
 them all huddled together at the bottom of the Service Manager - Very
 useful.

So does that mean they have different names in the service manager? How do 
you configure the instances?


 Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope on Windows: enhancements proposed

2001-09-25 Thread Richard Jones

On Tuesday 25 September 2001 16:41, Adrian Hungate wrote:
 I edit the registry... One of my many favourite pass-times, right up there
 with running out in traffic.

 Seriously though, once an instance is configured, why would you want to
 change it? (Assuming you get it right that is)

Mostly the interface is for stopping/starting the server, accessing the log, 
accessing the management screen, adding a manager user (yes, those last two 
are buttons which just open a URL with the default browser), changing the 
emergency user password and generally reporting information about the 
instance.

The (Assuming you get it right that is) is also spot on - people will do 
strange things, and we need a simple interface that we can walk them through 
on the phone, and also an interface that they're unlikely to cause damage 
with (as opposed to editing z2.py or the *gak* registry!)

This interface is _specifically_ targetted at a new breed of zope user. 
Someone who was brought up on a diet of IIS or some other plug-n-play web 
server. Someone who just wants it to work, no registry editing, no config 
file editing. That's who this stuff is targetted at.

I'd say that adding a multi-instance ability would be possible - we'd just 
have to be able to handle multiple config files. We're just not sure how it 
should be handled in the UI :)


 Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope on Windows: enhancements proposed

2001-09-25 Thread Andy

I guess its because Zope installs into the same directory as the service
name. So I always pick a name starting with Zope, so my installation is say
ZopeTest and my service is Zope (ZopeTest) :)

- Original Message -
From: Adrian Hungate [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Andy' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 11:26 PM
Subject: RE: [Zope-dev] Zope on Windows: enhancements proposed


 I have to disagree about the Zope (%s), I have been known to run 2 or 3
Zope
 services, for different instances, and I always know that I can find them
 all huddled together at the bottom of the Service Manager - Very useful.

 Adrian...

 --
 Adrian Hungate
 Try Zope -
 http://www.zope.org
 - You might like it.
 If you do, try my Zope products -
 http://www.zope.org/Members/haqa
 - You might like them too!


 -Original Message-
 From: Andy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: 25 September 2001 05:23
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Zope on Windows: enhancements proposed


  We'd like to propose that the service distributed with Zope move over to
  using our code.

 Great, Im really looking forward to an improved Windows installation. But
 lets get it out there play with it before anything major happens like
 shipping Zope with it :)

  As a separate issue - we're curious about the naming of the Zope
 installation
  - why is it called WebSite (and the Zope service Zope (WebSite))? The
 name
  clashes with another product that's fairly well-known in the windows
  community originally from O'Reilly:
 http://www.oreilly.com/software/index.html
  ... and since Zope is a fairly distinctive name ...

 It is annoying but Zope wins there because OReilly isnt making WebSite
 anymore. Its just a name, I find the Zope (%s) bit more annoying than
 anything :)

  ps. happy to put this up as a project if required.

 Thats probably a good idea. What about other issues such as install and
 removing service easily later, STDERR logging not going to /dev/null, lack
 of start menu icons and other windows issues...

 Cheers
 --
   Andy McKay



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[Zope-dev] Zope on Windows: enhancements proposed

2001-09-24 Thread Richard Jones

We've got a wonderful zope control panel (which installs into the standard 
windows Control Panel) and zope service which we'll be making available in 
binary and source form this week. Like the Mac OS X controller, this is 
simply a trivial re-branding extension of our work in supporting the 
usability of our Bizar Shop product.

The windows controller works on win95/win98/NT/win2k. It controls a real 
windows service on platforms were services are run (NT/win2k), and otherwise 
controls a service daemon which stays in the system tray. We'll call this 
service Zope, and its job is to lauch python [script] [args] with some 
Zope-specific environment fiddling (INSTANCE_HOME env, cd ${SOFTWARE_HOME}, 
STUPID_LOG_FILE env).

The current method of starting Zope as a windows service using 
PythonService.exe is kludgy, mostly because of the unnecessary layer of 
python. The Zope binary distribution's use of PythonService.exe does the same 
thing that our Zope service does (in the end), which is to lauch python 
z2.py [args].

We'd like to propose that the service distributed with Zope move over to 
using our code.

Our control panel will be able to control Zope (WebSite), but we probably 
won't offer the ability to configure it (editing the z2[s].py file in-place 
is possible - we do that now - but it's rather hackish).

So, best scenario is that Zope ships with the controller and our service. 
Worst scenario is that the controller is downloaded separately and can only 
stop/start PythonService. In the second case, we'd still ship our service and 
install it - meaning that there'd be two Zope services in the service 
manager, but at least the controller, which appears in the control panel, 
would still be able to fully control Zope.


As a separate issue - we're curious about the naming of the Zope installation 
- why is it called WebSite (and the Zope service Zope (WebSite))? The name 
clashes with another product that's fairly well-known in the windows 
community originally from O'Reilly: http://www.oreilly.com/software/index.html
... and since Zope is a fairly distinctive name ...


Richard

ps. happy to put this up as a project if required.

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope on Windows: enhancements proposed

2001-09-24 Thread Andy

 We'd like to propose that the service distributed with Zope move over to
 using our code.

Great, Im really looking forward to an improved Windows installation. But
lets get it out there play with it before anything major happens like
shipping Zope with it :)

 As a separate issue - we're curious about the naming of the Zope
installation
 - why is it called WebSite (and the Zope service Zope (WebSite))? The
name
 clashes with another product that's fairly well-known in the windows
 community originally from O'Reilly:
http://www.oreilly.com/software/index.html
 ... and since Zope is a fairly distinctive name ...

It is annoying but Zope wins there because OReilly isnt making WebSite
anymore. Its just a name, I find the Zope (%s) bit more annoying than
anything :)

 ps. happy to put this up as a project if required.

Thats probably a good idea. What about other issues such as install and
removing service easily later, STDERR logging not going to /dev/null, lack
of start menu icons and other windows issues...

Cheers
--
  Andy McKay



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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope on Windows: enhancements proposed

2001-09-24 Thread Richard Jones

On Tuesday 25 September 2001 14:23, Andy wrote:
  We'd like to propose that the service distributed with Zope move over to
  using our code.

 Great, Im really looking forward to an improved Windows installation. But
 lets get it out there play with it before anything major happens like
 shipping Zope with it :)

Fer sure :)


 It is annoying but Zope wins there because OReilly isnt making WebSite
 anymore.

Yeah, they seem to have sold it to someone else...


 Its just a name, I find the Zope (%s) bit more annoying than
 anything :)

Agreed.


  ps. happy to put this up as a project if required.

 Thats probably a good idea. What about other issues such as install and
 removing service easily later, STDERR logging not going to /dev/null, lack
 of start menu icons and other windows issues...

These are all things we've addressed, but it'd be good to note them 
somewhere. We've tried to make the process of using Zope (and hence our 
product) as painless to the average Windows user (and Mac user) as possible.


Richard

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope on Windows: enhancements proposed

2001-09-24 Thread Andy

 These are all things we've addressed, but it'd be good to note them
 somewhere. We've tried to make the process of using Zope (and hence our
 product) as painless to the average Windows user (and Mac user) as
possible.

Oooh, Im a happy camper.
--
  Andy




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