Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
On Fri, Feb 01, 2008 at 05:26:14PM -0500, Chris McDonough wrote: Marius Gedminas wrote: On Fri, Feb 01, 2008 at 11:06:48AM -0500, Chris McDonough wrote: I typed four more paragraphs full of markety stuff here but deleted them. *cheers* I'll take that as STFU ;-) It wasn't intended that way. I know from personal experience how hard it is to suppress rants I've written. I was just applauding your self-control. Uhh, not that I'm implying your markety stuff was a rant. I'll shut up now. :-) Marius Gedminas -- Place mark here -[ ]- if you want a dirty monitor. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
Hey, On Feb 1, 2008 11:52 PM, Martin Aspeli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stephan Richter wrote: On Friday 01 February 2008, Martijn Faassen wrote: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux This project does not seem to be public. Right - thanks Martijn for spilling the beans prematurely. ;-) I hadn't realized that thing was private, but I don't feel too guilty. The Foundation hasn't been hiding this effort, we just don't want too many cooks involved before it's ready. Anyway, Martin, I'm just recruiting people who want to write content for you and giving you people to add to your list of volunteers to write about Zope 3. I'm hoping you are keeping a list. :) Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
On Friday 01 February 2008, Chris McDonough wrote: If there will continue to be a release schedule for Zope 3, the appserver It would reduce confusion to new users greatly to give the appserver release a name other than Zope. Well, we had to do the classic Zope 3 release at least one more time. Because the official story is still: Download the Zope 3.3 tar ball and start using it. We have to use at least one release to tell people that we are going to change the process and allow them still both methods. I also think that we have no solid story and/or documentation to promote the new approach. My hope is that the story and documentation will develop during the next release cycles. All I am doing is doing something about a pretty pathetic situation. I took the least oath of resistance. And I am particularly tired of name change suggestions! For many reasons. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter Web Software Design, Development and Training Google me. Zope Stephan Richter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
I would say so also. Since z2, z3 both be released in future as eggs, I I expect the only difference to be in kgs that ensures a working set of packages (whether it is zope3, zope2, or for that matter any other project). Any sort of release in the future should only reflect a state of a working collection of packages. Certainly calling the collection of packages that produces a working zope3 installation a library would be inappropriate in my view. One approach might be calling the releases something zope-kgs-2 and zope-kgs-3 so it is all branded 'zope' - just refer to the *set* of eggs we are taking about. While this is more explicit, it does not sound very nice. kgs looks like kilograms to me any time I look at it :-) It might be nice for the marketing of zope to give each set of eggs a nice name. Just using familiar mozilla names as an illustration, see how nice zope-thunderbird or zope-firefox look. So do away with the kgs in the name and create a brand where zope 2 doesn't look like the lesser version of zope and zope3 isn't a library. They are only sets of the packages we generally refer to as zope :-) Regards, David Tom Hoffman wrote: Or if not, it would seem like there would be a better argument for the new approach having a new name than the old one. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
On Fri, Feb 1, 2008 at 9:22 AM, Chris McDonough [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'll take a risk by stating the obvious.
If there will continue to be a release schedule for Zope 3, the appserver
It
would reduce confusion to new users greatly to give the appserver release a
name
other than Zope.
Eg.
Current name Proposed name
-
Zope2- Zope
Zope3, the libraries - Zope libraries
Zope3 the appserver - Frobnozz
Isn't this release sort of the last of its kind, though? Kind of a
weird time for a name change
Or if not, it would seem like there would be a better argument for the
new approach having a new name than the old one.
--Tom
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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
On Fri, Feb 1, 2008 at 9:42 AM, Chris McDonough [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've heard that rumored, but there's nothing indicating that in the release announcement. There are forward looking statements in there: tarballs... for the last 3.4 series and probably for 3.5 as well. I take this to mean that there's an intention to have a 3.5, 3.6, 3.7 release, etc, but past 3.5, the release won't be packaged as a tarball. If this is the case, even if it's just for 3.5, it would sure help reduce confusion to give this release of packages (even if it's just a buildout and the KGS for that release) a name other than Zope. Or if not, it would seem like there would be a better argument for the new approach having a new name than the old one. I'm not sure which is the new approach and which is the old one? Well, given that this is a very, very late, long planned release always called Zope 3.4, I'd like to see it come out ASAP without further delay for semantic and philosophical argument. Then we can figure out what to call the next one. --Tom ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
Hey,. On Feb 1, 2008 4:09 PM, David Pratt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] It might be nice for the marketing of zope to give each set of eggs a nice name. Just using familiar mozilla names as an illustration, see how nice zope-thunderbird or zope-firefox look. So do away with the kgs in the name and create a brand where zope 2 doesn't look like the lesser version of zope and zope3 isn't a library. They are only sets of the packages we generally refer to as zope :-) There is this little community project called Grok which among other things aims at better marketing of Zope 3 technologies: http://grok.zope.org We've been at it for over a year. Now with all new website! I realize that Grok isn't to the tastes of everybody in this community. They may wish to market non-Grok Zope 3 better. My suggestion is for them to contribute to the Zope website project: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux (appears down at the moment, but I think that this is the correct URL) Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
On Friday 01 February 2008, Jim Fulton wrote: - I think the goal of these releases is less to provide an application than to provide a possibly useful collection of some libraries. This is similar to the Python standard library. Some people see significant value in this. I believe that other web frameworks, like TurboGears, also make releases that assemble a bunch of eggs, so people can use their frameworks without having to download eggs from PyPI. Yes, and I consider this done as soon as I upload a versioned KGS file. Maybe making an announcement as well. The problem right now is that we have not even told people about the eggs or the KGS (many will not pay attention until Zope 3.4.0 final). Nor do we have a transition story. Nor do we have a cohesive how to use eggs story and documentation. Many people still customize the Rotterdam skin to build applications in Zope 3! - The new approach to making a release would be to create an egg-based release, probably building on zc.sourcerelease. As you know, I am in favor of this approach. But it will take someone to figure out how to do it, write a few scripts and provide a transition to this way of doing it. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter Web Software Design, Development and Training Google me. Zope Stephan Richter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
On Feb 1, 2008, at 9:42 AM, Chris McDonough wrote: Tom Hoffman wrote: On Fri, Feb 1, 2008 at 9:22 AM, Chris McDonough [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll take a risk by stating the obvious. If there will continue to be a release schedule for Zope 3, the appserver It would reduce confusion to new users greatly to give the appserver release a name other than Zope. Eg. Current name Proposed name - Zope2- Zope Zope3, the libraries - Zope libraries Zope3 the appserver - Frobnozz Isn't this release sort of the last of its kind, though? Kind of a weird time for a name change I've heard that rumored, but there's nothing indicating that in the release announcement. There are forward looking statements in there: tarballs... for the last 3.4 series and probably for 3.5 as well. I take this to mean that there's an intention to have a 3.5, 3.6, 3.7 release, etc, but past 3.5, the release won't be packaged as a tarball. If this is the case, even if it's just for 3.5, it would sure help reduce confusion to give this release of packages (even if it's just a buildout and the KGS for that release) a name other than Zope. Or if not, it would seem like there would be a better argument for the new approach having a new name than the old one. I'm not sure which is the new approach and which is the old one? I'm glad you brought this up. Some observations: - I think the goal of these releases is less to provide an application than to provide a possibly useful collection of some libraries. This is similar to the Python standard library. Some people see significant value in this. I believe that other web frameworks, like TurboGears, also make releases that assemble a bunch of eggs, so people can use their frameworks without having to download eggs from PyPI. - The new approach to making a release would be to create an egg-based release, probably building on zc.sourcerelease. Jim -- Jim Fulton Zope Corporation ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
I'll take a risk by stating the obvious. If there will continue to be a release schedule for Zope 3, the appserver It would reduce confusion to new users greatly to give the appserver release a name other than Zope. Eg. Current name Proposed name - Zope2- Zope Zope3, the libraries - Zope libraries Zope3 the appserver - Frobnozz - C Stephan Richter wrote: January 31, 2008 - The Zope 3 development team announces the Zope 3.4.0c1 release. This release is the first release candidate for Zope 3.4.0. It was preceeded by an early beta 2 release back in November, 2007. Zope 3.4 introduces support for binary large objects in the ZODB, and provides a new postprocessing hook for publishing results. Many of the packages also provide small feature improvements that are too numerous to list at this point. Packages and Eggs - Since the first Zope 3.4 alpha and beta releases, we have finished the transition to a completely egg-based system. This largely means that most Zope 3 developers do not use the classic Zope 3 tar ball release anymore. However, for your convenience, the Zope 3 developers will provide the classic Zope 3 tar ball releases for at least the 3.4 series and probably for 3.5 as well. So how are Zope 3 applications built using only eggs? The Known Good Set (KGS) The known good set -- or in short KGS -- is a package index that derives from the official Python Package Index (PyPI) and thus contains all available packages in the Python world. But for a controlled set of packages, only certain versions that are known to work together are available. The list of controlled packages and their versions for Zope 3.4 can be found at the index page [1]_. The index can be used in several ways -- described here for `buildout`-based projects. The easiest method is to specify the index option in your ``buildout.cfg`` file:: [buildout] index = http://download.zope.org/zope3.4 ... You can also nail the versions by downloading the versions [2]_ and insert them as follows: [buildout] versions = versions ... [versions] zope.interface = 3.4.0 ... ``zopeproject`` Project Builder ~~~ Philipp von Weitershausen has developed a package called `zopeproject` to quickly setup the boilerplate for any Zope 3 based project. Ample documentation is provided at the `zopeproject` home page [3]_. `zopeproject` uses Paste or ZDaemon to create a working server. Here are the necessary commands to get a project started:: $ easy_install zopeproject $ zopeproject HelloWorld $ cd HelloWorld $ bin/helloworld-ctl foreground Demo Packages ~ At this point, there is no demo package demonstrating a simple Zope 3 application setup. (I hope one gets developed before Zope 3.4.0 final.) However, the ``z3c.formdemo`` package can be used as a fairly minimal setup. To get started with it, do the following:: $ svn co svn://svn.zope.org/repos/main/z3c.formdemo/tags/1.5.1 formdemo $ cd formdemo $ python bootstrap.py $ ./bin/buildout -v $ ./bin/demo fg .. [1] http://download.zope.org/zope3.4/controlled-packages.cfg .. [2] http://download.zope.org/zope3.4/versions.cfg .. [3] http://pypi.python.org/pypi/zopeproject What is Zope 3? --- Zope 3 is a web application server that continues to build on the heritage of Zope. It was rewritten from scratch based on the latest software design patterns and the experiences of Zope 2. The component architecture is the very core of Zope 3 that allows developers to create flexible and powerful web applications. Compatibility with Zope 2 -- Zope 3 is not upwards compatible with Zope 2. This means you cannot run Zope 2 applications in Zope 3. We continue to work on the transition from Zope 2 to Zope 3 by making Zope 2 use more and more of the Zope 3 infrastructure. This means that new code written in Zope 2 can benefit from Zope 3 technology. Also, with care, code can be written that works in both Zope 3 and Zope 2. This allows a Zope 2 application to slowly evolve towards Zope 3. Unchanged Zope 2 applications are never expected to work in Zope 3, however. Downloads - - Zope 3.4 Egg Index: http://download.zope.org/zope3.4 - Zope 3.4 Controlled Packages: http://download.zope.org/zope3.4/controlled-packages.cfg - Zope 3.4 Latest Versions: http://download.zope.org/zope3.4/versions.cfg - The classic Zope 3 source release can be downloaded from: http://zope.org/Products/Zope3 Installation instructions for both Windows and Un*x/Linux are now available in the top level `README.txt` file of the distribution. The binary installer is recommended for Windows. Zope 3.4 requires Python 2.4.4 to run. You must also have zlib installed on your system. Resources - - Zope 3 Development Web Site: http://wiki.zope.org/zope3 - Zope 3 Developers
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
Not responding to anyone in particular: I see there are plenty people with opinions. I would love not to do the Zope 3 releases anymore! I am tired of the endless discussions. Think I am frustrated? Absolutely! All the suggestions made here require more work, more manpower. But there is nobody doing the work. In fact, I am not even officially the release manager anymore. Remember, other people took over that job, because they wanted to do a release every 6 months? I said back then: Forget it. Nobody believed me and now it has been almost a year since the 3.3.1 release. The only reason I am doing the releases is to tell the world that we are still out there, improving the framework. And Tom/SchoolTool is the perfect example why this has to be done. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter Web Software Design, Development and Training Google me. Zope Stephan Richter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
Hi Martijn. I am familiar with grok and the fun and welcoming community you have created. With the perspective I have suggested, releases are only sets with different names giving meaning to each set for developer groups. As a project, grok is currently pinning eggs but can also provide a kgs for the set known as grok. The full story of zope is about the assembly of packages into projects. It need not be only one thing or the other which is the point. It is really up to individual developers to determine their flavor of zope and what it means to their own projects and style of development. My thinking though is that we can create a more cohesive community if the code base were all known as 'zope' and developers are all working from the superset of zope (which is in essence just the code base of packages we all use). Regards, David Martijn Faassen wrote: Hey,. On Feb 1, 2008 4:09 PM, David Pratt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] It might be nice for the marketing of zope to give each set of eggs a nice name. Just using familiar mozilla names as an illustration, see how nice zope-thunderbird or zope-firefox look. So do away with the kgs in the name and create a brand where zope 2 doesn't look like the lesser version of zope and zope3 isn't a library. They are only sets of the packages we generally refer to as zope :-) There is this little community project called Grok which among other things aims at better marketing of Zope 3 technologies: http://grok.zope.org We've been at it for over a year. Now with all new website! I realize that Grok isn't to the tastes of everybody in this community. They may wish to market non-Grok Zope 3 better. My suggestion is for them to contribute to the Zope website project: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux (appears down at the moment, but I think that this is the correct URL) Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
Stephan Richter wrote: On Friday 01 February 2008, Chris McDonough wrote: If there will continue to be a release schedule for Zope 3, the appserver It would reduce confusion to new users greatly to give the appserver release a name other than Zope. Well, we had to do the classic Zope 3 release at least one more time. Because the official story is still: Download the Zope 3.3 tar ball and start using it. We have to use at least one release to tell people that we are going to change the process and allow them still both methods. Of course. I also think that we have no solid story and/or documentation to promote the new approach. My hope is that the story and documentation will develop during the next release cycles. All I am doing is doing something about a pretty pathetic situation. I took the least oath of resistance. Heh. You're doing yeoman's work. And I am particularly tired of name change suggestions! For many reasons. I figured it wouldn't be a popular suggestion. But I do believe it is the right thing. It would have been the right thing from the start, but there is still time to repair things. I typed four more paragraphs full of markety stuff here but deleted them. It's not useful. If no one else thinks it's a good idea, I'm not going to push either. - C ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
Tom Hoffman wrote: On Fri, Feb 1, 2008 at 9:22 AM, Chris McDonough [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll take a risk by stating the obvious. If there will continue to be a release schedule for Zope 3, the appserver It would reduce confusion to new users greatly to give the appserver release a name other than Zope. Eg. Current name Proposed name - Zope2- Zope Zope3, the libraries - Zope libraries Zope3 the appserver - Frobnozz Isn't this release sort of the last of its kind, though? Kind of a weird time for a name change I've heard that rumored, but there's nothing indicating that in the release announcement. There are forward looking statements in there: tarballs... for the last 3.4 series and probably for 3.5 as well. I take this to mean that there's an intention to have a 3.5, 3.6, 3.7 release, etc, but past 3.5, the release won't be packaged as a tarball. If this is the case, even if it's just for 3.5, it would sure help reduce confusion to give this release of packages (even if it's just a buildout and the KGS for that release) a name other than Zope. Or if not, it would seem like there would be a better argument for the new approach having a new name than the old one. I'm not sure which is the new approach and which is the old one? - C ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
Hey, On Feb 1, 2008 6:11 PM, Stephan Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 01 February 2008, Martijn Faassen wrote: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux This project does not seem to be public. I don't know how it's been setup, but if you want to join I'm sure Martin Aspeli can help you. :) Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
On Friday 01 February 2008, Martijn Faassen wrote: http://www.openplans.org/projects/zorg-redux This project does not seem to be public. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter Web Software Design, Development and Training Google me. Zope Stephan Richter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
Stephan Richter a écrit : Not responding to anyone in particular: I see there are plenty people with opinions. I would love not to do the Zope 3 releases anymore! I am tired of the endless discussions. Think I am frustrated? Absolutely! All the suggestions made here require more work, more manpower. But there is nobody doing the work. In fact, I am not even officially the release manager anymore. Remember, other people took over that job, because they wanted to do a release every 6 months? I said back then: Forget it. Nobody believed me and now it has been almost a year since the 3.3.1 release. The only reason I am doing the releases is to tell the world that we are still out there, improving the framework. I believe the reason of your frustration comes from the fact there are probably not so many people who fully understand the whole release process, the kgs, the buildout, how things are scattered into all these eggs, and all the technology surrounding the transition that zope is going through. I'm not here for a long time and I had to spend hours reading docs and searching every single bit of information in the svn. The transition seems now achieved and the most important thing is to have a dedicated web site with clear information, so that there are new users, and new contributors. When someone goes to the zope.org homepage, there is nothing about zope3, just a single link in the left menu. I've heard that some people have started working on a new web site. Who is doing that job, what is the current status, and what can we do to help? Christophe And Tom/SchoolTool is the perfect example why this has to be done. Regards, Stephan ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
Hey, On Feb 1, 2008 6:04 PM, Christophe Combelles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] The transition seems now achieved and the most important thing is to have a dedicated web site with clear information, so that there are new users, and new contributors. When someone goes to the zope.org homepage, there is nothing about zope3, just a single link in the left menu. I've heard that some people have started working on a new web site. Who is doing that job, what is the current status, and what can we do to help? I agree that updating the website is important. Martin Aspeli is the person to contact on the zope.org effort. I've cc-ed him here. Earlier in this thread I posted a link to the project as it is on the openplans website. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
On Fri, Feb 01, 2008 at 11:06:48AM -0500, Chris McDonough wrote: I typed four more paragraphs full of markety stuff here but deleted them. *cheers* Marius Gedminas -- The clothes have no emperor. -- C.A.R. Hoare, commenting on ADA. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
On Feb 2, 2008 12:09 AM, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, On Feb 1, 2008 6:04 PM, Christophe Combelles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] The transition seems now achieved and the most important thing is to have a dedicated web site with clear information, so that there are new users, and new contributors. When someone goes to the zope.org homepage, there is nothing about zope3, just a single link in the left menu. I've heard that some people have started working on a new web site. Who is doing that job, what is the current status, and what can we do to help? I agree that updating the website is important. Martin Aspeli is the person to contact on the zope.org effort. I've cc-ed him here. Earlier in this thread I posted a link to the project as it is on the openplans website. I think the website is one of the huge impediments to joining the Zope community. When you compare zope.org to all the other web framework websites like django, turbogears, and RoR, it is pretty clear why people aren't drawn to Zope 3. Isn't it something of a disgrace that the website for a powerful web application framework is as outdated as zope.org? People don't move to zope for the same reason you wouldn't hire an interior designer who has an ugly house. If things don't really get moving on this front in the near future, it might be a good idea to make zope.org a summer of code project. Would anyone else like to start a new discussion thread on the topic of zope.org? I sure would. Cheers, Paul ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
Hey, On Feb 1, 2008 8:59 PM, Paul Carduner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] I think the website is one of the huge impediments to joining the Zope community. When you compare zope.org to all the other web framework websites like django, turbogears, and RoR, it is pretty clear why people aren't drawn to Zope 3. Isn't it something of a disgrace that the website for a powerful web application framework is as outdated as zope.org? Oh, I think everybody agrees. We even have a foundation effort to replace the website (the referenced project). We've had several efforts before; some where I myself was involved, but it's a very difficult thing to move forward. We are moving forward however. Note that meanwhile grok.zope.org *does* present a quite welcoming face to Zope 3 technology - last week we had an all-new website going online. Since we just had to worry about grok for that one, we could move more quickly. We definitely designed it so it wouldn't lose out too badly in the comparison with the websites of other web frameworks. People don't move to zope for the same reason you wouldn't hire an interior designer who has an ugly house. If things don't really get moving on this front in the near future, it might be a good idea to make zope.org a summer of code project. Would anyone else like to start a new discussion thread on the topic of zope.org? I sure would. So, as I said above, this is not a new topic. People, including myself, have been pointing this out for years. In public. :) Please do contact Martin Aspeli and join the effort already in progress! Note that we need people who can contribute *content* to the website the most. Those have been the hardest to find in the past. We are beyond technology discussions and the design work is also in good hands. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3.4.0 candidate 1 Released
I'll take that as STFU ;-) Got it. - C Marius Gedminas wrote: On Fri, Feb 01, 2008 at 11:06:48AM -0500, Chris McDonough wrote: I typed four more paragraphs full of markety stuff here but deleted them. *cheers* Marius Gedminas ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
