Re: [Zope-dev] Dependencies on zope.app.appsetup
On Monday 16 March 2009, Martijn Faassen wrote: > > I saw that, on last sprint, the subscriber for error reporting utility > > was moved from zope.error to zope.app.appsetup, so zope.error could > > lose the dependency on zope.app.appsetup. So, the first question is: > > do we want to move all subscribers like that? It doesn't seem like a > > best solution though, because then zope.app.appsetup should depend on > > all those packages, like zope.session. :-/ > > We did run this into this issue at the last sprint. We analyzed cycles > in package dependencies and decided this was a way to break these > dependencies. > > I think it's less bad that zope.app.appsetup depends on a lot of > dependencies than for zope.session to do so, at least if nothing much > actually depends on zope.app.appsetup. After all, something setting up > Zope 3 the application server will of course have to include a lot of > packages... BTW, +1. zope.app.appsetup being a little bit of an all toppings pizza is okay. It's job is to wire things up. In zome respect it represents a basic Zope 3 app setup. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter Web Software Design, Development and Training Google me. "Zope Stephan Richter" ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Dependencies on zope.app.appsetup
Hey Dan, You bring up another great topic! Dan Korostelev wrote: > One of most annoying dependencies is the "zope.app.appsetup" package. > Some packages, like zope.session depend on it just to provide > "boostrap setup" for using these packages in context of "zope3, the > application server", however, they can be greatly used without it, so > this is really awful dependency. > > I saw that, on last sprint, the subscriber for error reporting utility > was moved from zope.error to zope.app.appsetup, so zope.error could > lose the dependency on zope.app.appsetup. So, the first question is: > do we want to move all subscribers like that? It doesn't seem like a > best solution though, because then zope.app.appsetup should depend on > all those packages, like zope.session. :-/ We did run this into this issue at the last sprint. We analyzed cycles in package dependencies and decided this was a way to break these dependencies. I think it's less bad that zope.app.appsetup depends on a lot of dependencies than for zope.session to do so, at least if nothing much actually depends on zope.app.appsetup. After all, something setting up Zope 3 the application server will of course have to include a lot of packages... > The problem is that the bootstrap code in zope.app.appsetup is really > "zope3, the application"-specific, so it uses "root folders", > persistent site managers, site management containers, > ZopePublication.root_name, and so on. The code itself is okay, because > it provides an easy way to setup misc. components for the "zope3 > application server", but still it's a problem, because it's probably > impossible to refactor it in a application-independent way (until we > provide some cool pluggable application bootstrapping mechanism, which > is probably will become too complex and not needed/used by most > application developers). While it might be too complex for most application developers it might not be too complex for framework developers that use the Zope Framework as a base. I think such an infrastructure might arise if the Zope 3 and Grok and Zope 2 developers sit together one day. But not today. :) > So, the general question is where should we move the bootstrap setup > code? Or, alternatively, we could just leave it in place, but greatly > separate it from another package components and provide > zope.app.appsetup as an "extra" dependency (sigh...). I think your question ties into the need for some packages to depend on zope.app.appsetup? Does zope.session really need this stuff? Can't we just get rid of that need? Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Dependencies on zope.app.appsetup
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Dan Korostelev wrote:
> Hi there.
>
> One of most annoying dependencies is the "zope.app.appsetup" package.
> Some packages, like zope.session depend on it just to provide
> "boostrap setup" for using these packages in context of "zope3, the
> application server", however, they can be greatly used without it, so
> this is really awful dependency.
>
> I saw that, on last sprint, the subscriber for error reporting utility
> was moved from zope.error to zope.app.appsetup, so zope.error could
> lose the dependency on zope.app.appsetup. So, the first question is:
> do we want to move all subscribers like that? It doesn't seem like a
> best solution though, because then zope.app.appsetup should depend on
> all those packages, like zope.session. :-/
Making the "application" depend on the "libraries" is fine, and the name
of the package ('appsetup') suggests that it *should* be the place with
all the dependencies: OO frameworks need to have *somebody* wire in the
pieces, and that bit is usually the part which runs at startup.
> The problem is that the bootstrap code in zope.app.appsetup is really
> "zope3, the application"-specific, so it uses "root folders",
> persistent site managers, site management containers,
> ZopePublication.root_name, and so on. The code itself is okay, because
> it provides an easy way to setup misc. components for the "zope3
> application server", but still it's a problem, because it's probably
> impossible to refactor it in a application-independent way (until we
> provide some cool pluggable application bootstrapping mechanism, which
> is probably will become too complex and not needed/used by most
> application developers).
>
> So, the general question is where should we move the bootstrap setup
> code? Or, alternatively, we could just leave it in place, but greatly
> separate it from another package components and provide
> zope.app.appsetup as an "extra" dependency (sigh...).
+1 for moving all that stuff into the application.
Tres.
- --
===
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com
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