[Zope3-dev] Re: A Take on the Hello World Acid Test - from Mandatory Viewing
To answer the question at the end of your document: yes. Please continue on, showing the next smallest possible next step that is interesting. Hopefully this step can be done with making the viewer confront interfaces, adapters, etc. About the middle part, what's really needed to ensure newbies get a positive, confidence-building first experience? Scaffolding. Your document shows the chants needed that most newcomers wouldn't expect they should be aware of. Let's eliminate that, for that audience (if we care about that audience, which might be a different discussion.) One little Python script, maintained as part of the standard distribution, referred to ubiquitously as the right way to start, would have more impact on Zope adoption than nearly any other software activity (save, perhaps, for zope.bobo). All IMO, of course. --Paul Darryl Cousins wrote: Hi All, I enjoyed the fasterbettercheaper lecture. And it got me thinking about why I'm using Z3. Wanting to get that in words I took the hello world acid test: http://www.treefernwebservices.co.nz/hello.html Fun: 1.0 Enjoy your weekend. Sincerely, Darryl On Tue, 2006-03-07 at 11:31 -0500, Stephan Richter wrote: Hi everyone, I usually do not send messages like that, but in light of the recent discussions about vision, viewing this will give us all some perspective on what people are looking for: http://theploneblog.org/archive/2006/03/02/faster-better-cheaper I think currently Zope 3 would end up a little bit better than J2EE, but not much. I also think that the priorities the narrator sets are real ones representing a lot of people. So let's discuss this movie a little bit and see how we could do well in his evaluation. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/darryl%40darrylcousins.net.nz ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: A Take on the Hello World Acid Test - from Mandatory Viewing
On Thu, Mar 09, 2006 at 02:38:48PM +0100, Paul Everitt wrote: One little Python script, maintained as part of the standard distribution, referred to ubiquitously as the right way to start, would have more impact on Zope adoption than nearly any other software activity (save, perhaps, for zope.bobo). All IMO, of course. We do already have bin/pyskel, which is useful as far as it goes, but that's of course not very far. I'd really like to see some more scaffolding. Unfortunately there are so many use cases, we could easily get bogged down on the details. For example, I can imagine: * Create a skeletal package structure. input: name of package, e.g. foo creates (if they don't exist): lib/python/foo lib/python/foo/__init__.py lib/python/foo/browser lib/python/foo/browser/__init__.py lib/python/foo/tests/ lib/python/foo/tests/__init__.py lib/python/foo/tests/test_foo.py lib/python/foo/ftests/ lib/python/foo/ftests/__init__.py lib/python/foo/ftests/test_foo.py etc/package-includes/foo-configure.zcml ? lib/python/foo/configure.zcml ? lib/python/foo/browser/configure.zcml ? * Given interface(s), generate a skeletal class and supporting files. input: lib/python/foo/interfaces.py creates (but warns and exits if files exist): lib/python/foo/foo.py create an interface test in lib/python/foo/tests/test_foo.py add some wiring to lib/python/foo/configure.zcml options: create a view class in lib/python/foo/browser/views.py? create a template for that view class? create an edit form using a template? or zope.formlib? or what? create an add form using zope.formlib? or a template? or...?? Lots of options here! Probably the best initial approach would be to make it modest but trivially extensible so you could write scripts that leverage it but do what *you* want for *your* project. Several obvious candidates for implementing stuff like this: Skeletor https://svn.plone.org/svn/collective/skeletor/trunk/ Paste Script and Paste Templates http://pythonpaste.org/script/developer.html#templates -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
