Re: [Zope] Zope.org fading away ..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/11/2014 05:12 PM, Tres Seaver wrote: > There are two problems with HTTPS on mail.zope.org: our own > certificate is expired, and the issuer (StartCom) has an intermediate > certificate which expired even longer ago: > > http://www.sslshopper.com/ssl-checker.html#hostname=mail.zope.org/ I have added a new certificate and updated the intermediates. Chromium is now happy with https://mail.zope.org/, as is SSL Shopper: http://www.sslshopper.com/ssl-checker.html#hostname=mail.zope.org but Firefox will likely be unhappy over the next 6 - 12 hours due to OCSP propagation delay: https://forum.startcom.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2654 Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlMiHF0ACgkQ+gerLs4ltQ5giwCffH3MtWl2prY3zS3t+mKZqTac PHgAoKoiT8hqPKqiCaf45MH5qYGRj7ki =ZOzo -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope.org fading away ..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/12/2014 11:20 AM, Tres Seaver wrote: > On 03/11/2014 05:12 PM, Tres Seaver wrote: >> Our SPF record says that mail should only be coming from them, so >> Google is bouncing those messages. We need either to fix it so >> that mail comes from the 'mail.zope.org' IP, or else add the other >> host to our MX list. > > I just double-checked, and the SPF record looks right: Encolpe Degoute replied to my off-list with information that Google and others may be requiring DKIM for some kinds of sneders. - - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DomainKeys_Identified_Mail - - http://www.dkim.org/ - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlMh0WgACgkQ+gerLs4ltQ4D0ACfWYtaK8avMW+oTl8/Gy5JuZ4T qj8Ani4Qj+Pq1cRCdXkpQpRsX3NWFUQI =Yi8G -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope.org fading away ..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/11/2014 05:12 PM, Tres Seaver wrote: > Our SPF record says that mail should only be coming from them, so > Google is bouncing those messages. We need either to fix it so that > mail comes from the 'mail.zope.org' IP, or else add the other host to > our MX list. I just double-checked, and the SPF record looks right: - %< -- $ dig -t TXT zope.org ; <<>> DiG 9.8.1-P1 <<>> -t TXT zope.org ;; global options: +cmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 34927 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;zope.org. IN TXT ;; ANSWER SECTION: zope.org. 600 IN TXT "v=spf1 mx a:cvs.zope.org a:grok.zope.org a:hetzner04.zopefoundation.org -all" - %< -- The 'hetzner04.zopefoundation.org' IP is the one that list mail appears to come from: it should pass the SPF check. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlMgeyoACgkQ+gerLs4ltQ4aaACfX3KaslKix4YzVqMraqc63hTx TuMAn280TrBCo7JU3UYOmrT+/JVpBlbE =8m8Q -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope.org fading away ..
You were misunderstanding me, I am not claiming that. I said "It’s not that Zope isn’t as open source as it can be, it’s that anyone building a new application will not use Zope” I am saying there is nothing wrong with the open sourceness of Zope. That wasn’t very clear, apologies. My concerns are solely around Zope moving forward over the next few years and how we can best achieve a community feel around Zope - or a deviate of Zope -once again. Rich On 12 Mar 2014, at 11:43, zopyxfil...@gmail.com wrote: > Rich Harley wrote: >> >> On 12 Mar 2014, at 11:08, zopyxfil...@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> Rich Harley wrote: On 12 Mar 2014, at 10:05, zopyxfil...@gmail.com wrote: > Rich Harley wrote: >> It might be better if the whole zope project is handed over to somebody >> willing to move it forward. > The whole Zope project is as open as an open-source project can be. It’s not that Zope isn’t as open source as it can be, >>> Why? >> >> I am not disputing Zope is/was a great open source project. > > Why do you claim that "Zope is not as open as it can be"? What is > missing? Where is Zope not open? Please be specific. > > > -aj > ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope.org fading away ..
On 12 Mar 2014, at 11:08, zopyxfil...@gmail.com wrote: > Rich Harley wrote: >> On 12 Mar 2014, at 10:05, zopyxfil...@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> Rich Harley wrote: It might be better if the whole zope project is handed over to somebody willing to move it forward. >>> The whole Zope project is as open as an open-source project can be. >> >> It’s not that Zope isn’t as open source as it can be, > > Why? I am not disputing Zope is/was a great open source project. > >> >> The problem is how to attract new developers to rebuild a Zope fit for life >> from 2015+. That would mean making the framework more modern in every sense >> but still retaining the features that made Zope great in the past like >> excellent security handling and a quick development cycle. This is not an >> easy task and would probably involve some rebranding as the Zope name is now >> associated with an old framework. >> >> >>> The decade of the large application servers and frameworks is over. >> >> Possibly but Zope could have moved with the times and evolved with the >> momentum it had 5 years ago instead of being usurped by frameworks like >> Django and Turbogears which any python dev would choose over Zope in a >> heartbeat these days if they wanted to build a scalable application. This is >> what needs to be addressed - or is it your opinion that Zope will die and >> there’s nothing we can do about it? That seems a shame to me. > > Zope lives as long as someone uses it (Plone uses it). Plone is going the same way of declining usage and development over the last 3-5 years. > Apart from that: > the project live from the contributions and contributors. The Zope > world is kind of a legacy and it is unlikely at this will change. > Keep it alive somehow to the point as you need by taking over > responsibility. Do you step up for a particular task? Good response:) No I don’t step up right now, too busy with our own codebase. But we would love to take the project forward in the future when we are a bigger company. Is the Zope 4 project still alive that was talked about in 2011? > > Andreas ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope.org fading away ..
On 12 Mar 2014, at 10:05, zopyxfil...@gmail.com wrote: > Rich Harley wrote: >> It might be better if the whole zope project is handed over to somebody >> willing to move it forward. > > The whole Zope project is as open as an open-source project can be. It’s not that Zope isn’t as open source as it can be, it’s that anyone building a new application will not use Zope, which is clearly a problem for longevity since in another 3 years there will be even less people using Zope as more and more legacy applications get rewritten. Personally we are very embedded with Zope 2.11. It’s excellent for what we are using it for and we are incredibly grateful of the community that built that product over the last 10 years. We use Zope in a very simple way for just holding python code, handling roles and connecting out to a Postgres DB but there are other frameworks which would do the same thing in a leaner way now. Still, we are not looking to rewrite because it does what we need well, although the version control is more hassle than it should be. > What is the problem here? The problem is how to attract new developers to rebuild a Zope fit for life from 2015+. That would mean making the framework more modern in every sense but still retaining the features that made Zope great in the past like excellent security handling and a quick development cycle. This is not an easy task and would probably involve some rebranding as the Zope name is now associated with an old framework. > The decade of the large application servers and frameworks is over. Possibly but Zope could have moved with the times and evolved with the momentum it had 5 years ago instead of being usurped by frameworks like Django and Turbogears which any python dev would choose over Zope in a heartbeat these days if they wanted to build a scalable application. This is what needs to be addressed - or is it your opinion that Zope will die and there’s nothing we can do about it? That seems a shame to me. Rich > >> >> It’s pretty obvious the various parts that make up the community like >> mailing lists, website, forums etc have been dead or dying for a long time. >> >> Will Zope ever get back to 2005-2006 levels…? See : >> http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=zope >> > > > -aj ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope.org fading away ..
It might be better if the whole zope project is handed over to somebody willing to move it forward. It’s pretty obvious the various parts that make up the community like mailing lists, website, forums etc have been dead or dying for a long time. Will Zope ever get back to 2005-2006 levels…? See : http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=zope Rich On 11 Mar 2014, at 23:07, Sean Upton wrote: > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Tres Seaver wrote: >>> When I try to visit the mailing list web interface, Firefox is >>> stopped in its tracks by "Secure Connection Failed An error occurred >>> during a connection to mail.zope.org. The OCSP server has no status >>> for the certificate. (Error code: sec_error_ocsp_unknown_cert)" >> >> There are two problems with HTTPS on mail.zope.org: our own certificate >> is expired, and the issuer (StartCom) has an intermediate certificate >> which expired even longer ago: >> >> http://www.sslshopper.com/ssl-checker.html#hostname=mail.zope.org/ > > I hope there is some luck folks having with resolving this. One can > always take the approach Jim took with ZODB-dev, moving it to Google > Groups, but there is real value in the archives regardless of where > the current lists live. And the archives are de-facto inaccessible > now -- if nothing else, the archives could be hosted on any static > HTTP site and would not need any SSL/TLS/certificate burden. > > Sean > ___ > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope.org fading away ..
On Tue, 2014-03-11 at 17:07 -0600, Sean Upton wrote: > On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Tres Seaver wrote: > >> When I try to visit the mailing list web interface, Firefox is > >> stopped in its tracks by "Secure Connection Failed An error occurred > >> during a connection to mail.zope.org. The OCSP server has no status > >> for the certificate. (Error code: sec_error_ocsp_unknown_cert)" > > > > There are two problems with HTTPS on mail.zope.org: our own certificate > > is expired, and the issuer (StartCom) has an intermediate certificate > > which expired even longer ago: > > > > http://www.sslshopper.com/ssl-checker.html#hostname=mail.zope.org/ > > I hope there is some luck folks having with resolving this. One can > always take the approach Jim took with ZODB-dev, moving it to Google > Groups, but there is real value in the archives regardless of where > the current lists live. And the archives are de-facto inaccessible > now -- if nothing else, the archives could be hosted on any static > HTTP site and would not need any SSL/TLS/certificate burden. +1 > > Sean > ___ > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- programmatic web development di(fh) johannes raggam / thet python plone zope development plone framework team member mail: off...@programmatic.pro web: http://programmatic.pro http://bluedynamics.com signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope.org fading away ..
On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Tres Seaver wrote: >> When I try to visit the mailing list web interface, Firefox is >> stopped in its tracks by "Secure Connection Failed An error occurred >> during a connection to mail.zope.org. The OCSP server has no status >> for the certificate. (Error code: sec_error_ocsp_unknown_cert)" > > There are two problems with HTTPS on mail.zope.org: our own certificate > is expired, and the issuer (StartCom) has an intermediate certificate > which expired even longer ago: > > http://www.sslshopper.com/ssl-checker.html#hostname=mail.zope.org/ I hope there is some luck folks having with resolving this. One can always take the approach Jim took with ZODB-dev, moving it to Google Groups, but there is real value in the archives regardless of where the current lists live. And the archives are de-facto inaccessible now -- if nothing else, the archives could be hosted on any static HTTP site and would not need any SSL/TLS/certificate burden. Sean ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope.org fading away ..
On Tue, 2014-03-11 at 17:12 -0400, Tres Seaver wrote: > On 03/11/2014 01:39 AM, Jean Jordaan wrote: > > When I try to use the "Kontakt" (sic) form at http://zope.org/, it > > pops up an empty div: "". > > Ugh, I don't recall now where the software lives for that. CC'ing the > infrastructure list to verify. i've done the zope.org implementation together with michael haubenwallner in 2010. it's a Plone 4 website. since then, not much happened. i'd be happy to get some help with maintaining this. this is the theme/integration package: https://github.com/d2m/plonetheme.zopeorg and here is the buildout: http://svn.zope.org/zopeorg.buildout/branches/www.zope.org/ -- programmatic web development di(fh) johannes raggam / thet python plone zope development plone framework team member mail: off...@programmatic.pro web: http://programmatic.pro http://bluedynamics.com signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope.org fading away ..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/11/2014 01:39 AM, Jean Jordaan wrote: > I've been unsubscribed from the Zope mailing lists due to "excessive > bounces". So for some reason despite my clicking "ignore, I trust this > message" 100s of times, gmail doesn't like the mails zope.org sends. Some mail appears to be coming from a host (hetzner04.zopefoundation.org) which is not one of our MX hosts: $ dig -t MX zope.org ... ;; ANSWER SECTION: zope.org. 600 IN MX 0 mail.zope.org. zope.org. 600 IN MX 5 mail2.zope.org. Our SPF record says that mail should only be coming from them, so Google is bouncing those messages. We need either to fix it so that mail comes from the 'mail.zope.org' IP, or else add the other host to our MX list. > When I try to visit the mailing list web interface, Firefox is > stopped in its tracks by "Secure Connection Failed An error occurred > during a connection to mail.zope.org. The OCSP server has no status > for the certificate. (Error code: sec_error_ocsp_unknown_cert)" There are two problems with HTTPS on mail.zope.org: our own certificate is expired, and the issuer (StartCom) has an intermediate certificate which expired even longer ago: http://www.sslshopper.com/ssl-checker.html#hostname=mail.zope.org/ > When I try to use the "Kontakt" (sic) form at http://zope.org/, it > pops up an empty div: "". Ugh, I don't recall now where the software lives for that. CC'ing the infrastructure list to verify. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlMffFEACgkQ+gerLs4ltQ62CQCeMV2/kkHD8zPUGdBfQUgoAgMN oj0AoITHdNoJdtTDtvBIv6exqmDIgLbm =F6dx -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Zope.org fading away ..
Hi all I've been unsubscribed from the Zope mailing lists due to "excessive bounces". So for some reason despite my clicking "ignore, I trust this message" 100s of times, gmail doesn't like the mails zope.org sends. When I try to visit the mailing list web interface, Firefox is stopped in its tracks by "Secure Connection Failed An error occurred during a connection to mail.zope.org. The OCSP server has no status for the certificate. (Error code: sec_error_ocsp_unknown_cert)" When I try to use the "Kontakt" (sic) form at http://zope.org/, it pops up an empty div: "". -- jean . .. //\\\oo///\\ ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
