Re: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs
Bill Anderson wrote: [snip] Hmm ... howzabout this for an idea, at least: Since the Data.fs is appended to, and that your disconnected version is canonical, why couldn't you basically look for the last common transaction, and append all transactions in the canonocial to the main one? Bill (thinking this might need to be moved to dev ...) Because my disconnected Data.fs very well may not be canonical. If it were, then a simple scp Data.fs server:/path would do the trick. Bonus points for rsync which would probably result in the last n bytes being appened, all without using any knowledge about ZODB transactions. Merging changes is the tricky part. I'm wondering if the easiest way to do it now wouldn't be Coda and maybe logically separated mounted ZODB databases. -Otto. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs
Bill Anderson wrote: Since the Data.fs is appended to, and that your disconnected version is canonical, why couldn't you basically look for the last common transaction, and append all transactions in the canonocial to the main one? Hwo would that handle the situation where an object has been modified in data.fs? Not too well I'd guess... :( (thinking this might need to be moved to dev ...) And so it was ;-) cheers, Chris ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs
chrisw wrote: Bill Anderson wrote: Since the Data.fs is appended to, and that your disconnected version is canonical, why couldn't you basically look for the last common transaction, and append all transactions in the canonocial to the main one? Hwo would that handle the situation where an object has been modified in data.fs? Not too well I'd guess... :( Don't see why not. When an object is changed, the new object is just appended to the end of Data.fs. Unless you use undo, or you pack the Data.fs. -- Steve Alexander Software Engineer Cat-Box limited http://www.cat-box.net ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs
Chris Withers wrote: Steve Alexander wrote: Don't see why not. When an object is changed, the new object is just appended to the end of Data.fs. Unless you use undo, or you pack the Data.fs. You missed the problem ;-) Technically, there is no problem... Logically, what happens if one user updates and object on one machien and another user on another machines, after which you merge the data.fs's? I'm thinkthing of the things which result in Notes Replication/Save conflicts... What does Lotus Notes offer to do if you get such a conflict? I'm probably talking rubbish in what follows, because I don't have much of an idea how these things really work... The server has a data.original. You take a copy of this, called data.chris. You use this for a while, and data gets appended to data.chris. Someone else is using the server, and data.original gets appended to. Later, you want to recombine the changes, so you do as follows: Create a data.original.before_fork that is the data.original just before you took the copy data.chris. (You can work this out by looking at the modified data.original and data.chris). Create a list of the combined transactions (in order of time, I guess) that happened on the server, and to data.chris. Within one monsterous transaction, apply the list of combined transactions using the usual under-the-hood ZODB machinery. Use Jim's new conflict resolution algorithm to try to settle conflicts. If a conflict can't be settled, ask interactively, or apply some sort of policy (like "chris always wins" for example) and log the lost changes. -- Steve Alexander Software Engineer Cat-Box limited http://www.cat-box.net ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs
Steve Alexander wrote: Don't see why not. When an object is changed, the new object is just appended to the end of Data.fs. Unless you use undo, or you pack the Data.fs. You missed the problem ;-) Technically, there is no problem... Logically, what happens if one user updates and object on one machien and another user on another machines, after which you merge the data.fs's? I'm thinkthing of the things which result in Notes Replication/Save conflicts... cheers, Chris ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs
Chris Withers wrote: (snip) Definitely, can someone say whether QuorumBasedReplication would handle this on whether it's designed more for real-time replication between storage servers in the ZEO world? It's designed for real-time replication. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! Technical Director (888) 344-4332http://www.python.org Digital Creationshttp://www.digicool.com http://www.zope.org Under US Code Title 47, Sec.227(b)(1)(C), Sec.227(a)(2)(B) This email address may not be added to any commercial mail list with out my permission. Violation of my privacy with advertising or SPAM will result in a suit for a MINIMUM of $500 damages/incident, $1500 for repeats. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs
Jim Fulton wrote: Definitely, can someone say whether QuorumBasedReplication would handle this on whether it's designed more for real-time replication between storage servers in the ZEO world? It's designed for real-time replication. Aww :~( And there was me hoping I could do the Lotus Notes 'go to the beach and work, then replicate the changes when I got back' or the 'work from home, replicate the stuff when I can next be bothered to go into work' ;-) Seriously though, is there anything in the pipeline (even just simple ideas) for Notes-styel replication at any point in the future? It's the only sticking point for quite a big project we're working on that's forcing us to stay with Notes. cheers, Chris PS: No, none of us has enough Zen to do it ourselves... ;( ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs
Chris Withers wrote: Jim Fulton wrote: Definitely, can someone say whether QuorumBasedReplication would handle this on whether it's designed more for real-time replication between storage servers in the ZEO world? It's designed for real-time replication. Aww :~( And there was me hoping I could do the Lotus Notes 'go to the beach and work, then replicate the changes when I got back' or the 'work from home, replicate the stuff when I can next be bothered to go into work' ;-) Seriously though, is there anything in the pipeline (even just simple ideas) for Notes-styel replication at any point in the future? It's the only sticking point for quite a big project we're working on that's forcing us to stay with Notes. cheers, Chris PS: No, none of us has enough Zen to do it ourselves... ;( Hmm ... howzabout this for an idea, at least: Since the Data.fs is appended to, and that your disconnected version is canonical, why couldn't you basically look for the last common transaction, and append all transactions in the canonocial to the main one? Bill (thinking this might need to be moved to dev ...) -- Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are easy to annoy, and have the root password. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs
If you're doing little or nothing in the way of Python development in base classes (e.g. you're doing all of your development in the instance or in ZClasses), you may want to take a look at ZEO (http://www.zope.org/Products/ZEO). Setting up the ZEO "storage server" overseas and using a local Zope client as a sort of object cache might make the situation bearable and solve your synchronization problem. ZEO caches objects until they're invalidated by the storage server, so the object is read once and can be accessed many times until invalidated without needing to cross the wire to the storage server. If you are doing development on Python-based Products, you can still do this, but it's complicated badly by need to be very careful that the two installations keep "shared" Python modules (ala Product files) synchronized as well, as if they get out of sync, one of the two of you is going to end up with a broken Zope incessantly. It's not an ideal setup. There is no generic diff or merge facility for two arbitrarily modified Data.fs files. -Original Message- From: Brenton Bills [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 12:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs Hi, At the moment I am in a situation where I am working for a company overseas across the Internet. Because of the lag between us and the fact that I am working over a modem we have chosen both to have a copy of the Data.fs files and when I complete a project (or at the end of the day) I export the files I have modified. The only problem is at the end of a hard day of working remembering which files I have changed. What would be a better solution is somesort of syncronisation between both copies of our Data.fs files so I can see the updates they have made and they can see the updates I have made at the end of each day. Is this possible and how can I do it? Thanks all, Brenton Bills. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs
Chris McDonough wrote: There is no generic diff or merge facility for two arbitrarily modified Data.fs files. Perhaps Zope or ZEO could do Lotus Notes - style replication at some point in the future? cheers, Chris ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs
Actually, there is a proposal on the table for something like this in a Wiki I can't find going by the name of "QuorumBasedReplication" -Original Message- From: Chris McDonough Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 9:51 AM To: 'Chris Withers'; Chris McDonough Cc: 'Brenton Bills'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs Perhaps. Patches accepted :-) -Original Message- From: Chris Withers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 5:27 AM To: Chris McDonough Cc: 'Brenton Bills'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs Chris McDonough wrote: There is no generic diff or merge facility for two arbitrarily modified Data.fs files. Perhaps Zope or ZEO could do Lotus Notes - style replication at some point in the future? cheers, Chris ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs
[AL] If you do find it, please pass on a strong recommendation to checkout the Coda file system included in FreeBSD. Coda has a LOT of research on how to do this stuff that would be relevant to "Quorum Based Replication". Sorry, I just noticed this message in passing and cannot follow up myself. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Chris McDonough Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 11:55 PM To: Chris McDonough; 'Chris Withers' Cc: 'Brenton Bills'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs Actually, there is a proposal on the table for something like this in a Wiki I can't find going by the name of "QuorumBasedReplication" -Original Message- From: Chris McDonough Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 9:51 AM To: 'Chris Withers'; Chris McDonough Cc: 'Brenton Bills'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs Perhaps. Patches accepted :-) -Original Message- From: Chris Withers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 5:27 AM To: Chris McDonough Cc: 'Brenton Bills'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs Chris McDonough wrote: There is no generic diff or merge facility for two arbitrarily modified Data.fs files. Perhaps Zope or ZEO could do Lotus Notes - style replication at some point in the future? cheers, Chris ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs
If you manage to find it, would you post a link to it? Thanks. -Otto. Chris McDonough wrote: Actually, there is a proposal on the table for something like this in a Wiki I can't find going by the name of "QuorumBasedReplication" ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs
Aha... http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZEO/QuorumBasedReplication Jim's heading this up. We had a professor from George Mason University in here and everything. The whiteboard was filled with scrawlings. :-) It's definitely something we're interested in. -Original Message- From: Otto Hammersmith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 1:50 PM To: Chris McDonough; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs If you manage to find it, would you post a link to it? Thanks. -Otto. Chris McDonough wrote: Actually, there is a proposal on the table for something like this in a Wiki I can't find going by the name of "QuorumBasedReplication" ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs
On 19 Jul 2000, at 13:57, Chris McDonough wrote: Aha... http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZEO/QuorumBasedReplication Jim's heading this up. We had a professor from George Mason University in here and everything. The whiteboard was filled with scrawlings. :-) It's definitely something we're interested in. I've been teasing myself with the idea of using CODA as a storage for Zope. It has built-in "per-object" replication, hoarding (download all these objects so I can go to the beach) and sychronization. Brad Clements,[EMAIL PROTECTED] (315)268-1000 http://www.murkworks.com (315)268-9812 Fax netmeeting: ils://ils.murkworks.com AOL-IM: BKClements ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs
Brad Clements wrote: Aha... http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZEO/QuorumBasedReplication Jim's heading this up. We had a professor from George Mason University in here and everything. The whiteboard was filled with scrawlings. :-) It's definitely something we're interested in. I've been teasing myself with the idea of using CODA as a storage for Zope. It has built-in "per-object" replication, hoarding (download all these objects so I can go to the beach) and sychronization. That would be very cool :-) If you've got the knowledge to do this, please put it to good use :-) cheers, Chris ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs
Otto Hammersmith wrote: Chris Withers wrote: Chris McDonough wrote: There is no generic diff or merge facility for two arbitrarily modified Data.fs files. Perhaps Zope or ZEO could do Lotus Notes - style replication at some point in the future? *droool* There's that Python IDE that someone was working on using Mozilla. Do you mean ZopeStudio? It's the javascript thing that is going to be Zope's IDE... I think Jim suggested running Zope embedded in that.. it would be sweet to have that be able to "replicate". Install the IDE, replicate, go develop by the beach and replicate when you get back Definitely, can someone say whether QuorumBasedReplication would handle this on whether it's designed more for real-time replication between storage servers in the ZEO world? cheers, Chris ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs
On Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 08:47:43PM +0100, Chris Withers wrote: There's that Python IDE that someone was working on using Mozilla. Do you mean ZopeStudio? It's the javascript thing that is going to be Zope's IDE... No, he's talking about ActiveState's Komodo. -- Martijn Pieters | Software Engineermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com/ | Creators of Zope http://www.zope.org/ | ZopeStudio: http://www.zope.org/Products/ZopeStudio - ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Bi-directional update of Data.fs
On 19 Jul 2000, at 20:32, Chris Withers wrote: I've been teasing myself with the idea of using CODA as a storage for Zope. It has built-in "per-object" replication, hoarding (download all these objects so I can go to the beach) and sychronization. That would be very cool :-) If you've got the knowledge to do this, please put it to good use :-) I can't afford to spend the time on it. I have a family to feed. Brad Clements,[EMAIL PROTECTED] (315)268-1000 http://www.murkworks.com (315)268-9812 Fax netmeeting: ils://ils.murkworks.com AOL-IM: BKClements ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
