Today's Topics:
1. Re: Slingram etymology (Ken Witherly)
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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 08:08:32 -0600
From: "Ken Witherly" <[email protected]>
To: "'Robert Hearst'" <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [SEGMIN] Slingram etymology
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Rob
Evolution is an interesting word. I was a few years on the scene in the early
70s when a guy I worked with Barney O?Toole introduced me to Jack Betz, a local
geophysical consultant in Toronto. Barney and Jack had both worked for Anaconda
?in the day?. When I met Jack he was finishing the Max-Min project. What was
described to me was he examined all the other systems of the day (in Utah we
used a Geonics and McPhar grd EM system) and selected all of the best features
and put them into one system. Jack pushed the technology well past what others
had achieved and became almost a fanatic regards secant chaining to correct
HLEM data from topo, a weakness he could not engineer out of the system. Jack
produced a couple of user documents with case studies as well that you got when
you bought the system. At the time, the most practical and well written field
guides I had seen. I am pretty sure all the other manufactures of HLEM gear
moved out of the way of Max-Min when it arrived. Geonics pr
ospered with time domain EM and McPhar got eaten by CIL (a story Dave
Fountain can tell very well). I recall the Scandinavian?s had produced a wealth
of HLEM type curves but Jack focused on practical applications; dealing with
topo, power lines, conductive overburden, strong mag sources distorting the IP
data.
Ken
From: SEGMIN <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Robert Hearst via
SEGMIN
Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 7:45 AM
To: segmin <[email protected]>
Cc: Robert Hearst <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [SEGMIN] Slingram etymology
Great picture of the system Janne. Any mention of the number of frequencies
used at the time? Can see how this type of system evolved into the Max-Min.
Cheers,
Rob
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Janne Kaukolinna via SEGMIN <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> >
Date: April 2, 2020 at 6:46 AM
Hi,
Just a guess, but I would image the name comes from the fact the transmitter
loop was now attached to frame as before ground loop was used..
Picture from early 40s set-up below, the receive coil in front, instrument carrier and
the observer in the middle and the transmitter coil and "energizer" backpack
following.
to 2. huhtik. 2020 klo 12.27 Kim Frankcombe via SEGMIN ( [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> ) kirjoitti:
Gold. Thanks Janne.
So it takes two sling rams to make a Slingram system (Tx and Rx).
Cheers
Kim
On 2/4/20 6:12 pm, Janne Kaukolinna via SEGMIN wrote:
Hi,
Dig into our legacy reports here in Boliden, Sweden and the text below is from report
called "Some Ore Prospecting Instruments", David Malmqvist 1949
So as mentioned earlier Sling=Loop Ram=Frame
----
II. Loop-Frame Equipment
The loop-frame method is a new geo-electrical
field method which has been developed in the
prospecting work carried out by the Geological
Survey of Sweden in northern Sweden under the
leadership of Mr. S Werner, the geophysicist of
the Geological Survey. The original aim was to
find a simpler and above all a cheaper method of
prospecting. However, the loop-frame method,
has proved superior in several other respects
too to field methods hitherto used for ore
prospecting.
Detail surveying according to this new method
was commenced as early as 1936, but it was not
until the summer of 1937 that the field work was
started on a larger scale. In 1943 the Boliden
Mining Company acquired the rights of the method,
and since then our geophysical department
has been engaged in improving it.
Field surveying
Detail surveying according to the loop-frame
method is carried out as follows: Alternating
current from a small energizer is fed to a
portable circular frame, a so called loop-frame,
with a diameter of about 1,5 m.....
----
cheers,
.janne
to 2. huhtik. 2020 klo 8.24 Kim Frankcombe via SEGMIN ( [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> ) kirjoitti:
I contacted my pet Swede and he replied
" Yes, translation loop frame is probably the closest, and with regard to whether to
capitalise the first letter or not, it is if it has become a technology and no longer a
brand name, similarly to Gramophone becoming gramophone. I am sure we had something we
called Slingram with Dattatray Parasnis and Josef Zuber back at uni in Sweden, and I have
regarded my EM34 as a slingram at least in the configuration."
Roger also pointed me to page 110 in the green book and it says that Slingram
is sometimes translated into English as loop-frame.
That didn't make a lot of sense until I recalled the instrument hanging on the
wall in Outokumpu
I was picturing the twin operator unit on the table and struggling with loop frame but
the "snow shoe" on the wall makes more sense.
Diversion over, back to work.
Cheers
Kim
On 2/4/20 12:46 pm, Rolf - NorCanEx via SEGMIN wrote:
Why not ask a Swede? Which I am not.
Johan Alfred Holm, f?dd 10 februari 1912 <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/1912> i Lycksele <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycksele> i
Lappland i V?sterbottens l?n <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A4sterbottens_l%C3%A4n> , d?d 19 januari 1986
<https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986> i Vinsl?v <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinsl%C3%B6v> i Kristianstad l?n
<https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristianstad_l%C3%A4n> ,[1] <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Holm#cite_note-1> var en svensk
ingenj?r <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingenj%C3%B6r> . Under tiden som anst?lld vid Sveriges geologiska unders?kning
<https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sveriges_geologiska_unders%C3%B6kning> [2] <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Holm#cite_note-2>
(SGU) i Norsj? <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norsj%C3%B6> p? 1930-talet fick han id?n om ett geofysiskt m?tinstrument, som kom att kallas
slingram.
Det f?rsta instrumentet av Slingramen <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slingram> [3]
<https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Holm#cite_note-3> uppfanns i Sverige under vintern
1936 av Alfred Holm tillsammans med geofysikern Sture Werner
<https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sture_Werner> . Det ?r den i v?rlden mest anv?nda metoden
vid elektromagnetisk prospektering. Som instrumentmakare medverkade Alfred Holm i utvecklingen av
en hel rad instrument, bland annat kr?kningsm?tare f?r borrh?l. Han gick i pension fr?n SGU 1977.
Looks like it just came to be known as Slingram.
Some words in English:
[in Sweden] ... The first use of electromagnetic (EM) instruments to locate
buried ore deposits was in 1921 by Centralgruppens Emmissons A.-B. (Sundberg et
al., 1923:39). The survey used the EM method as developed by Karl Sundberg
(Fig. 1) (Sundberg et al., 1923:18ff). The EM Slingram method was invented in
Sweden in 1936 by Sture Werner and Alfred Holm (NE).
Rolf
From: SEGMIN [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dennis
Woods via SEGMIN
Sent: 2-Apr-20 00:33
To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Cc: Dennis Woods <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [SEGMIN] Slingram etymology
And the other imponderable is: should Slingram be capitalized as I have always done? If
it is just a Swedish translation of "loop frame", does it really need to be
capitalized?
Obviiously we all have too much time on our hands during the COVID-19 shutdown.
Cheers, Dennis
At 09:16 PM 01/04/2020, Kim Frankcombe via SEGMIN wrote:
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Thanks James - I looked at the green SEG volume and Slingram gets one paragraph
on p259 while MaxMin gets a page and a half. Readers are referred to Sveriges
Geologiska for more info.
The single word for something complex problem came up for me once before when I
was interpreting some field notes written in French by an Arab gravity crew in
Tunisia. My French wasn't up to the job so I threw it to Babel fish which at
the time was better than Google translate and it told me that they had been
delayed in a paddock for herring barrel time talking to a farmer. There was a
typo in one of their words with one of the hats missing off a letter but it
started me down a path of asking why would you have a word for herring barrel?
Turns out they used to be pretty important and a source of much international
argument.
Cheers
Kim
On 2/4/20 11:48 am, James Reid via SEGMIN wrote:
In Swedish? Regardless, it's very obscure to have a word for "Loop frame" I
wonder what other contexts it's used in?
From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Sent: April 2, 2020 11:44 AM
To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Cc: James Reid <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [SEGMIN] Slingram etymology
This message originated outside Mira Geoscience.
Google Translate says it means loop frame.
Howard Golden
3 Forsyth Close
Mosman Park, WA 6012
AUSTRALIA
+61 417 912 171
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
From: SEGMIN < [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf Of James Reid via SEGMIN
Sent: Thursday, 2 April 2020 11:29
To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Cc: James Reid < [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
Subject: Re: [SEGMIN] Slingram etymology
Hi Kim ?
I was told (or read somewhere) that it was from the Swedish and meant something like
"Loop-frame" I don't have my textbooks in my home office, but I am pretty sure
there is a bit of the history in the article by Frischknecht et al on small-loop EM in
the SEG EM methods volumes edited by Nabighian (Vol 2 ? Applications, Part A?)
Cheers,
James
From: SEGMIN < [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf Of Kim Frankcombe via SEGMIN
Sent: April 2, 2020 11:24 AM
To: SEGMIN User Forum <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>
Cc: Kim Frankcombe <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
Subject: [SEGMIN] Slingram etymology
This message originated outside Mira Geoscience.
I was looking for a diversion when writing a report today and started wondering
where the word Slingram comes from. I'd always assumed it was Finnish or at
least Scandinavian and made perfect sense if you spoke the language but it
might also be someone's name. At a stretch it might be Separated loop induction
ground something machine? Sherrif says it's Swedish for Horizontal Loop method,
supporting my original thought although presumably that still involves an
acronym as I'd be surprised if any language had a single word saying Horizontal
Loop EM method - scary if they do! Anyone know?
Cheers
Kim
