Thank you Gordon for an excellent summary.
All be safe in this Covid-19 period.
Sincerely,
Rob
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Gordon West <[email protected]>
Date: April 3, 2020 at 6:05 PM
For Segmin list
RE Slingram etymology
I think the discussion may has slipped off target. The online
dictionaries are trying to make a one-to-one match between words in the
two languages, but losing some meaning in what is bound to be an
imperfect process.
As I understand it (very Imperfectly), sling in swedish is from the same
root as sling in english. Loop is a good english translation when one
is referring to a flexible loop for lifting things or a closed path. Ram
translates OK as frame , if one means a frame, framework, or the
enclosing boundary of something and it could describe an EM loop. Thus,
it was explained to me in summer 1959 at Outokumpu, Finland (where I
worked with many 10's of square kilometers of intensive HLEM surveys)
that Slingram was best translated as "carried loop" or "slung loop";
describing how each of the two circular horizontal loops were slung by
straps from the operator's shoulders. I was also shown a famous picture
of a mobile version of Slingram used in Lapland, where the systems coils
were mounted on sleds pulled by reindeer.
The early EM, (pre 1960s) systems were single frequency and had minimal
electronics (limited to simple oscillators to generate the Tx current
and simple amplifiers to make the received signal audible in
headphones). Measurements were made with compensators, essentially two
dial AC bridges that had to be adjusted manually to annul the headphone
signal and then read the data from the poteniometer dials.
The alternative method at the time was Turam (two loop). It used a
large, usually rectangular fixed loop as the transmitter and a moving
receiver consisting of two vertical axis loops separated by one or more
line stations directed away from teh Tx loop. Use of two Rx loops
allowed one to measure the complex ratio of the vertical field
components at the two stations (with a compensator), and, if desired,
calculate back to the complex field at individual stations.
I especially want to second the remarks about Jack Betz' formidable
contributions to developing the very robust, multi-frequency version of
slingram called Max-Min (referring to the fact that one could use it as
a maximum or minimum coupled system). He provided many of excellent
example field responses with detailed interpretations that were very
well supported by scale modelling to show how one could differentiate
overburden and host rock responses from those of localized conductors.
It was pioneering work. Some of his reports are still available at U.
of T. I haven't seen or heard from him in several years, but I believe
he is still enjoying retirement in rural Ontario.
On 4/2/2020 10:08 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Slingram etymology (Ken Witherly)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 08:08:32 -0600
> From: "Ken Witherly" <[email protected]>
> To: "'Robert Hearst'" <[email protected]>,
> <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [SEGMIN] Slingram etymology
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> Evolution is an interesting word. I was a few years on the scene in the early 70s when a guy I worked with Barney O?Toole introduced me to Jack Betz, a local geophysical consultant in Toronto. Barney and Jack had both worked for Anaconda ?in the day?. When I met Jack he was finishing the Max-Min project. What was described to me was he examined all the other systems of the day (in Utah we used a Geonics and McPhar grd EM system) and selected all of the best features and put them into one system. Jack pushed the technology well past what others had achieved and became almost a fanatic regards secant chaining to correct HLEM data from topo, a weakness he could not engineer out of the system. Jack produced a couple of user documents with case studies as well that you got when you bought the system. At the time, the most practical and well written field guides I had seen. I am pretty sure all the other manufactures of HLEM gear moved out of the way of Max-Min when it arrived. Geonics pr
> ospered with time domain EM and McPhar got eaten by CIL (a story Dave Fountain can tell very well). I recall the Scandinavian?s had produced a wealth of HLEM type curves but Jack focused on practical applications; dealing with topo, power lines, conductive overburden, strong mag sources distorting the IP data.
>
>
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> From: SEGMIN <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Robert Hearst via SEGMIN
> Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 7:45 AM
> To: segmin <[email protected]>
> Cc: Robert Hearst <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [SEGMIN] Slingram etymology
>
>
>
> Great picture of the system Janne. Any mention of the number of frequencies used at the time? Can see how this type of system evolved into the Max-Min.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rob
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Janne Kaukolinna via SEGMIN <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
> Date: April 2, 2020 at 6:46 AM
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Just a guess, but I would image the name comes from the fact the transmitter loop was now attached to frame as before ground loop was used..
>
>
>
> Picture from early 40s set-up below, the receive coil in front, instrument carrier and the observer in the middle and the transmitter coil and "energizer" backpack following.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> to 2. huhtik. 2020 klo 12.27 Kim Frankcombe via SEGMIN ( [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ) kirjoitti:
>
> Gold. Thanks Janne.
>
> So it takes two sling rams to make a Slingram system (Tx and Rx).
>
> Cheers
> Kim
>
>
>
> On 2/4/20 6:12 pm, Janne Kaukolinna via SEGMIN wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Dig into our legacy reports here in Boliden, Sweden and the text below is from report called "Some Ore Prospecting Instruments", David Malmqvist 1949
>
> So as mentioned earlier Sling=Loop Ram=Frame
>
> ----
>
> II. Loop-Frame Equipment
>
>
> The loop-frame method is a new geo-electrical
> field method which has been developed in the
> prospecting work carried out by the Geological
> Survey of Sweden in northern Sweden under the
> leadership of Mr. S Werner, the geophysicist of
> the Geological Survey. The original aim was to
> find a simpler and above all a cheaper method of
> prospecting. However, the loop-frame method,
> has proved superior in several other respects
> too to field methods hitherto used for ore
> prospecting.
> Detail surveying according to this new method
> was commenced as early as 1936, but it was not
> until the summer of 1937 that the field work was
> started on a larger scale. In 1943 the Boliden
> Mining Company acquired the rights of the method,
> and since then our geophysical department
> has been engaged in improving it.
>
>
> Field surveying
> Detail surveying according to the loop-frame
> method is carried out as follows: Alternating
> current from a small energizer is fed to a
> portable circular frame, a so called loop-frame,
> with a diameter of about 1,5 m.....
>
> ----
>
>
>
> cheers,
>
>
>
> .janne
>
>
>
> to 2. huhtik. 2020 klo 8.24 Kim Frankcombe via SEGMIN ( [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ) kirjoitti:
>
> I contacted my pet Swede and he replied
>
> " Yes, translation loop frame is probably the closest, and with regard to whether to capitalise the first letter or not, it is if it has become a technology and no longer a brand name, similarly to Gramophone becoming gramophone. I am sure we had something we called Slingram with Dattatray Parasnis and Josef Zuber back at uni in Sweden, and I have regarded my EM34 as a slingram at least in the configuration."
>
> Roger also pointed me to page 110 in the green book and it says that Slingram is sometimes translated into English as loop-frame.
>
> That didn't make a lot of sense until I recalled the instrument hanging on the wall in Outokumpu
>
>
> I was picturing the twin operator unit on the table and struggling with loop frame but the "snow shoe" on the wall makes more sense.
>
> Diversion over, back to work.
>
> Cheers
> Kim
>
>
>
> On 2/4/20 12:46 pm, Rolf - NorCanEx via SEGMIN wrote:
>
> Why not ask a Swede? Which I am not.
>
>
>
> Johan Alfred Holm, f?dd 10 februari 1912 <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/1912> i Lycksele <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycksele> i Lappland i V?sterbottens l?n <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A4sterbottens_l%C3%A4n> , d?d 19 januari 1986 <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986> i Vinsl?v <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinsl%C3%B6v> i Kristianstad l?n <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristianstad_l%C3%A4n> ,[1] <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Holm#cite_note-1> var en svensk ingenj?r <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingenj%C3%B6r> . Under tiden som anst?lld vid Sveriges geologiska unders?kning <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sveriges_geologiska_unders%C3%B6kning> [2] <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Holm#cite_note-2> (SGU) i Norsj? <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norsj%C3%B6> p? 1930-talet fick han id?n om ett geofysiskt m?tinstrument, som kom att kallas slingram.
>
> Det f?rsta instrumentet av Slingramen <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slingram> [3] <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Holm#cite_note-3> uppfanns i Sverige under vintern 1936 av Alfred Holm tillsammans med geofysikern Sture Werner <https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sture_Werner> . Det ?r den i v?rlden mest anv?nda metoden vid elektromagnetisk prospektering. Som instrumentmakare medverkade Alfred Holm i utvecklingen av en hel rad instrument, bland annat kr?kningsm?tare f?r borrh?l. Han gick i pension fr?n SGU 1977.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Looks like it just came to be known as Slingram.
>
>
>
> Some words in English:
>
>
>
> [in Sweden] ... The first use of electromagnetic (EM) instruments to locate buried ore deposits was in 1921 by Centralgruppens Emmissons A.-B. (Sundberg et al., 1923:39). The survey used the EM method as developed by Karl Sundberg (Fig. 1) (Sundberg et al., 1923:18ff). The EM Slingram method was invented in Sweden in 1936 by Sture Werner and Alfred Holm (NE).
>
>
>
> Rolf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: SEGMIN [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dennis Woods via SEGMIN
> Sent: 2-Apr-20 00:33
> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> Cc: Dennis Woods <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [SEGMIN] Slingram etymology
>
>
>
>
> And the other imponderable is: should Slingram be capitalized as I have always done? If it is just a Swedish translation of "loop frame", does it really need to be capitalized?
>
> Obviiously we all have too much time on our hands during the COVID-19 shutdown.
>
> Cheers, Dennis
>
>
> At 09:16 PM 01/04/2020, Kim Frankcombe via SEGMIN wrote:
>
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary="------------126154CDF1FCB3448640D024"
> Content-Language: en-AU
>
> Thanks James - I looked at the green SEG volume and Slingram gets one paragraph on p259 while MaxMin gets a page and a half. Readers are referred to Sveriges Geologiska for more info.
>
> The single word for something complex problem came up for me once before when I was interpreting some field notes written in French by an Arab gravity crew in Tunisia. My French wasn't up to the job so I threw it to Babel fish which at the time was better than Google translate and it told me that they had been delayed in a paddock for herring barrel time talking to a farmer. There was a typo in one of their words with one of the hats missing off a letter but it started me down a path of asking why would you have a word for herring barrel? Turns out they used to be pretty important and a source of much international argument.
>
> Cheers
> Kim
>
>
> On 2/4/20 11:48 am, James Reid via SEGMIN wrote:
>
> In Swedish? Regardless, it's very obscure to have a word for "Loop frame" I wonder what other contexts it's used in?
>
> From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]>
> Sent: April 2, 2020 11:44 AM
> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> Cc: James Reid <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: [SEGMIN] Slingram etymology
>
> This message originated outside Mira Geoscience.
> Google Translate says it means loop frame.
>
> Howard Golden
> 3 Forsyth Close
> Mosman Park, WA 6012
> AUSTRALIA
> +61 417 912 171
> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>
> From: SEGMIN < [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf Of James Reid via SEGMIN
> Sent: Thursday, 2 April 2020 11:29
> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> Cc: James Reid < [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
> Subject: Re: [SEGMIN] Slingram etymology
>
> Hi Kim ?
>
> I was told (or read somewhere) that it was from the Swedish and meant something like "Loop-frame" I don't have my textbooks in my home office, but I am pretty sure there is a bit of the history in the article by Frischknecht et al on small-loop EM in the SEG EM methods volumes edited by Nabighian (Vol 2 ? Applications, Part A?)
>
> Cheers,
>
> James
>
>
> From: SEGMIN < [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf Of Kim Frankcombe via SEGMIN
> Sent: April 2, 2020 11:24 AM
> To: SEGMIN User Forum <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
> Cc: Kim Frankcombe <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
> Subject: [SEGMIN] Slingram etymology
>
> This message originated outside Mira Geoscience.
> I was looking for a diversion when writing a report today and started wondering where the word Slingram comes from. I'd always assumed it was Finnish or at least Scandinavian and made perfect sense if you spoke the language but it might also be someone's name. At a stretch it might be Separated loop induction ground something machine? Sherrif says it's Swedish for Horizontal Loop method, supporting my original thought although presumably that still involves an acronym as I'd be surprised if any language had a single word saying Horizontal Loop EM method - scary if they do! Anyone know?
>
> Cheers
> Kim
>
>
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