We are also struggling with acceptable documentation to include EMS fluids for 
septic shock.  Our state also has protocols for IV fluids for shock.  We also 
have a place on the triage form that is a hard stop for EMS fluids for any 
patient. A zero must be entered for "none given".  There is no MD order for the 
EMS fluids and our providers are not going to give 30 ml/kg once a patient is 
admitted to our ED if EMS has already given 3 liters to a 100kg patient.  We 
have long transport times and have been working with our EMS providers for 
early identification of septic shock and early intervention.  I would like to 
know how others have met the "required MD order" to meet compliance with this 
portion of the metric.  Would including "30ml/kg to include EMS fluids" on our 
order set meet this part of the metric?  

Thank-you.  

Jeanie Bollinger MSN,RN, ACCNS-AG, CCRN-K
Clinical Nurse Specialist
Acute Medicine
Mission Health
509 Biltmore Avenue
Asheville, NC 28801

Office: 828-213-7171
Cell: 828-400-1194

-----Original Message-----
From: Sepsisgroups [mailto:[email protected]] On 
Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 9:57 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Sepsisgroups Digest, Vol 258, Issue 3

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Provider orders or protocols for      IVF     administered    by EMS
      (Walls, Tammy ER Manager)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 16:34:15 +0000
From: "Walls, Tammy ER Manager" <[email protected]>
To: 'Mary Draper' <[email protected]>, "Carlson, Brenda
        L"      <[email protected]>,
        "'[email protected]'"
        <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Sepsis Groups] Provider orders or protocols for   IVF
        administered    by EMS
Message-ID:
        <ab6658aa61e8e640a49afef178a561fc0170777...@smmc-ex10mb02.st-marys.org>
        
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Is it required that your EMS agencies leave a run sheet in real time? Not 
dropped into the EMR 24-72 hours later. Our issue is that we have not had 
documentation from EMS to indicate how much fluid was administered. We are 
working with one of the EMS agencies and have developed a short form they will 
complete that documents fluids and any treatment initiated. So far the 
compliance has been slim to none and its only with one agency (we serve appx.15 
EMS agencies). We have issues getting anything besides a oral report from EMS. 
Does your states require anything different as WV allows the 24-72 hour time 
frame; however, JC, Risk, and best practice dictates differently. In our 
physicians order set it states IVF 30mg/kg to include fluids administered by 
EMS.

Thank you,
Tammy Walls, RN, BSN
Clinical Manager SMMC ER
304-526-1868 phone
304-526-1789 fax
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
________________________________
From: Sepsisgroups [mailto:[email protected]] On 
Behalf Of Mary Draper
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 6:36 PM
To: Carlson, Brenda L; '[email protected]'
Subject: Re: [Sepsis Groups] Provider orders or protocols for IVF administered 
by EMS

We are going to work with our ED staff to document in the intake the amount 
given by EMS so that it can be pulled electronically. We have the EMS record 
scanned into Epic to verify but it is just a paper report so no discrete fields.

Mary Draper RN BSN
Coordinator Quality Improvement
Peer Review Support CV/CT
JMH Quality Management
Office (925) 674-2045
Cell (925) 451-8792
Fax (925) 674-2373
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
[cid:[email protected]]
"O, let us always have a mountain within our soul,  with a peak so high that we 
never quite reach the top...
  For then we will always strive for greater things and will not be content  
with merely climbing hills."     Ardath Rodale

From: Sepsisgroups [mailto:[email protected]] On 
Behalf Of Carlson, Brenda L
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 9:16 AM
To: '[email protected]' <[email protected]>
Subject: [Sepsis Groups] Provider orders or protocols for IVF administered by 
EMS

Has anyone figured out a way to include IVF given by EMS? We are struggling 
with this since provider orders or protocols must be found in the hospital 
record and none of the local EMS companies provide this type of information.

The NYSDOH approved protocols used by all EMS agencies in upstate NY are 
available here:

https://www.mlrems.org/GetFile.aspx?fileID=10896<http://sophos2.st-marys.org:32224/?dmVyPTEuMDAxJiYwZjUwNTE4NzcyYzc0NGQ4Nz01OTkxQ0I4OV83NDA1NV82NjAwXzEmJjFkNWIzOTBkZWIwYmRkND0xMjIzJiZ1cmw9aHR0cHMlM0ElMkYlMkZ3d3clMkVtbHJlbXMlMkVvcmclMkZHZXRGaWxlJTJFYXNweCUzRmZpbGVJRCUzRDEwODk2>

There are no patient specific orders, these are standing order for all patients 
with suspected septic shock.

Has anyone found a way to comply with provider orders in the hospital record 
for IVF given by EMS?

Thank you for your help.


Brenda L. Carlson MS, BSN, RN
Assistant Quality Officer
Office of Clinical Practice Evaluation
University of Rochester Medical Center
265 Crittenden Blvd., Saunders Research Building, 3.205
585-273-4721
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