--- In [email protected], "Nick Gall" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>

[Excellent points snipped]

 
> Not always. In the building professions is there a different 
> certified or credentialed degree for architects and engineers. So 
> you could have a junior architect working with a senior engineer. 

Which would potentially speak to the differing education background 
rather than to the junior architect's relative inexperience.

> I agree that in disciplines like software engineering/programming, 
> the title "architect" is informally bestowed on the most 
> experienced designer/programmers.

Generally, that's true.
 
> So both engineers and architects design, and both are creative (see 
> my added emphasis), it's just that engineers use more science and 
> math? Then give me a creative engineer any day!

It would seem so! But I would caution about being dismissive of the 
difference. Yes, an engineer will get the job done, and some 
engineers display a knack for aesthetically pleasing designs. But 
does the distinction between the two apply in most cases?

For IT endeavors, I still think aesthetics are quite fleeting and 
hard to identify.

> I think it is a mistake to look (only) at building architecture for
> definitions. Guess what they call the creative, aesthetic designer 
> of products? Industrial designer! Here's how wikipedia defines 
> industrial design:
> 
> *Industrial design* is an applied
> art<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_art>whereby the
> aesthetics <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesthetics> and
> usability<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usability>of
> products <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_%28business%29> may 
> be improved for marketability and
> production<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing>.
> The role of an Industrial Designer is to create and execute design 
> solutions towards problems of engineering, usability, user 
> ergonomics, marketing, brand development and sales.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_design
> 
> If we were to stick with your architecture vs. engineering 
> distinction, shouldn't an industrial designer be called 
> an "industrial architect"?

It would seem so. But we know the world isn't consistent! :-)

Clearly, it's a fuzzy distinction, if any distinction exists at all 
outside of building arhitecture--which was your preliminary point I 
think.

-Rob


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