I would think it would... why does it matter how you get to another peer?

...Skeeve

*Skeeve Stevens - Senior IP Broker*
*v4Now - *an eintellego Networks service
[email protected] ; www.v4now.com

Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve

facebook.com/v4now ;  <http://twitter.com/networkceoau>
linkedin.com/in/skeeve

twitter.com/theispguy ; blog: www.theispguy.com


IP Address Brokering - Introducing sellers and buyers

On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Gaurab Raj Upadhaya <[email protected]>
wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Guangliang,
>
> can you clarify these questions for me.
>
> If a provider connects to a v4 only transit provider over a physical
> circuit, but does v6 transit from Hurricane Electric over a tunnel,
> would that be considered multihoming ?
>
>
> - -gaurab
>
>
>
> On 2/25/15 4:05 AM, Guangliang Pan wrote:
> > Hi Dean and All,
> >
> > According to the current APNIC ASN policy document, the definition
> > of multihomed is as below.
> >
> > http://www.apnic.net/policy/asn-policy#3.4
> >
> > 3.4 Multihomed
> >
> > A multi-homed AS is one which is connected to more than one other
> > AS. An AS also qualifies as multihomed if it is connected to a
> > public Internet Exchange Point.
> >
> > In the ASN request form, you will be asked to provide the estimate
> > ASN implementation date, two peer AS numbers and their contact
> > details. It is also acceptable if your network only connect to an
> > IXP.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Guangliang =========
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From: [email protected]
> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dean
> > Pemberton Sent: Wednesday, 25 February 2015 7:02 AM To: Owen
> > DeLong Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [sig-policy]
> > [New Policy Proposal] prop-114: Modification in the ASN eligibility
> > criteria
> >
> > Looks like a clarification on the definition of multi-homing from
> > the secretariat is what we need before being able to proceed here.
> >
> >
> > -- Dean Pemberton
> >
> > Technical Policy Advisor InternetNZ +64 21 920 363 (mob)
> > [email protected]
> >
> > To promote the Internet's benefits and uses, and protect its
> > potential.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Owen DeLong <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Feb 24, 2015, at 12:38 , Dean Pemberton
> >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 6:20 AM, Owen DeLong <[email protected]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>> Firstly I agree with Randy here.  If you're not multi-homed
> >>>>> then your routing policy can not be 'unique' from your
> >>>>> single upstream.  You may wish it was, but you have no way
> >>>>> to enforce this.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is not true.
> >>>>
> >>>> You can be single homed to a single upstream, but, have other
> >>>> peering relationships with other non-upstream ASNs which are
> >>>> also not down-stream. These relationships may not be
> >>>> sufficiently visible to convince APNIC that one is
> >>>> multihomed, even though technically it is a multihomed
> >>>> situation.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> I don't agree (Damn and we were getting on so well this year
> >>> =) ).
> >>>
> >>> I would argue that the situation you describe above DOES
> >>> constitute multihoming.
> >>
> >> I agree, but it may not necessarily constitute “multihoming” in a
> >> manner that is recognized or accepted by the RIR.
> >>
> >> Clarification from APNIC staff on the exact behavior from APNIC
> >> could render this moot.
> >>
> >> However, I have past experience where RIRs have rejected peerings
> >> with related entities and/or private ASNs of third parties as not
> >> constituting valid “multihoming” whereupon I had to resort to “a
> >> unique routing policy”.
> >>
> >>
> >>> If an LIR were connected to an upstream ISP but also wanted to
> >>>  participate at an IXP I would consider them to be multihomed
> >>> and covered under existing APNIC policy.
> >>
> >> What if they only connected to the IXP with a single connection?
> >> I’ve also encountered situations where this is considered “not
> >> multihomed” and to be a “unique routing policy”.
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I couldn't find the strict definition on the APNIC pages as to
> >>> what the hostmasters considered multihoming to be, but if one
> >>> of them can point us to it then it might help.
> >>
> >> Agreed.
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> While I oppose that (and thus completely oppose the other
> >>>> proposal), as stated above, I think there are legitimate
> >>>> reasons to allow ASN issuance in some cases for organizations
> >>>> that may not meet the multi-homing requirement from an APNIC
> >>>> perspective.
> >>>
> >>> I really want to find out what those multi-homing requirements
> >>> are. I suspect that they amount to "BGP connections to two or
> >>> more other ASNs" In which case I think we can go back to
> >>> agreeing.
> >>
> >> As long as it’s not more specific than that (for example, two or
> >> more public ASNs or via distinct circuits, etc.).
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I think it is more a case that smaller and simpler policy
> >>>> proposals that seek to change a single aspect of policy are
> >>>> more likely to succeed or fail on their merits, where large
> >>>> complex omnibus proposals have a substantial history of
> >>>> failing on community misunderstanding or general avoidance of
> >>>> complexity.
> >>>
> >>> I can see your point, but taking a smaller simpler approach is
> >>> only valid once you have agreed on the larger more strategic
> >>> direction.  I don't believe that we have had those
> >>> conversations.
> >>
> >> I find that in general, the larger the group you are attempting
> >> to discuss strategy with, the smaller the chunks necessary for a
> >> useful outcome.
> >>
> >> YMMV.
> >>
> >>> We are seeing small proposals purporting to talk about
> >>> multihoming, but what they are in essence talking about is the
> >>> much larger topic of the removal of demonstrated need (as
> >>> Aftab's clarification in the other thread confirms beyond
> >>> doubt.)
> >>
> >> Upon which clarification, you will notice that I switched to
> >> outright opposition to that policy. Frankly, you caught a
> >> subtlety in the language that I missed where I interpreted the
> >> proposal to still require justified need rather than mere
> >> announcement, but a careful re-read and the subsequent
> >> clarification of intent made it clear that I had erred.
> >>
> >> Further, note that I have always opposed this proposal as
> >> written, but offered as an alternative a much smaller change
> >> which I felt met the intent stated by the proposer without the
> >> radical consequences you and I both seem to agree are
> >> undesirable.
> >>
> >>> There is danger in the death by a thousand cuts.  Many times
> >>> you can't see the unintended consequences until you are already
> >>> down the track of smaller simpler policy changes.
> >>
> >> I really don’t think that is a risk in this case.
> >>
> >>> As we are in Japan I offer a haiku:
> >>>
> >>> A frog in water doesn’t feel it boil in time. Do not be that
> >>> frog.
> >>>
> >>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog)
> >>
> >> I wish I could be at the meeting, but, alas, I’m here in the US
> >> looking on from afar.
> >>
> >> Owen
> >>
> > *              sig-policy:  APNIC SIG on resource management policy
> > * _______________________________________________ sig-policy
> > mailing list [email protected]
> > http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy *
> > sig-policy:  APNIC SIG on resource management policy           *
> > _______________________________________________ sig-policy mailing
> > list [email protected]
> > http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy
> >
>
>
> - --
>
> http://www.gaurab.org.np/
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin)
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAlTtg1QACgkQSo7fU26F3X3nSACfZayuWmeykSI2WzjhOZ0AO9rY
> I+kAoM863V5skin8wC/7sYaFfmhpwiTu
> =YRGr
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> *              sig-policy:  APNIC SIG on resource management policy
>    *
> _______________________________________________
> sig-policy mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy
>
*              sig-policy:  APNIC SIG on resource management policy           *
_______________________________________________
sig-policy mailing list
[email protected]
http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy

Reply via email to