Hi Jordi,
It’s plain you feel that we should do all possible to raise the price
of IPv4 and make it unattainable for small business in the vain hope
that this will drive IPv6 adoption.
I don’t think making IPv4 more difficult to acquire is the job of the
RIR system.
You have not addressed the inability of smaller companies to acquire
necessary IPv4 blocks if you ban leasing.
Is that something you are comfortable with, in pursuit of the IPv6 grail?
It’s okay with you that this policy prevents small companies from growing?
Regards,
Mike
*From:* JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via sig-policy <[email protected]>
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 7, 2022 10:11 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* [sig-policy] Re: New version - prop-148: Clarification -
Leasing of Resources is not Acceptable
Actually, I must disagree …
If organizations having unused resources, they need to transfer them
or return them to the RIR. If prices keep going high, that could
encourage faster IPv6 adoption, then transfer prices will go down, up
to “no value”. It takes time, but it is just market.
Those that have more money, have more facilities to do a faster
transition and not bother about IPv4.
Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
El 7/9/22, 16:05, "Mike Burns" <[email protected]> escribió:
Hello,
Per Gaurav’s statement that “only those with millions of dollars can
think of getting ips”, this community should oppose this policy.
Because the only way small companies can afford to get ips today is by
leasing them. The same way the small company can’t afford to purchase
a big office building but instead rents an office. Leasing is the only
way to finance IPv4 acquisitions today. No bank or other entity that I
am aware of will do it. Purchasing addresses requires full upfront
payment, but leasing allow for much smaller monthly payments.
If this community wants to ensure only the largest and richest
companies can acquire new addresses, ban leasing.
But if the community tries to ban something with such a large business
motivation behind it, it will find itself struggling against a
powerful foe.
And for what purpose do we punish the small businesses? Leasing puts
addresses in the hands of those who need them to build and operate
networks. Isn’t that the primary goal of the RIR system?
Regards,
Mike
El 2/9/22, 9:23, "Gaurav Kansal" <[email protected]> escribió:
Hello everyone,
In my opinion, even Trading of IPs (leave apart the lease for making
dollars) in the name of transfers must be stopped.
If organisation doesn’t need IPs , then those must be returned back so
that smaller organisations can get it from the RIR.
Currently, only the one which have millions of dollars can think of
getting IPs. In today’s scenario, no one can start the Data Centre,
ISP business without investing millions in IPs. Even education and
research org doesn’t have an option to get IPs from RIR.
This is like horse trading and isn’t a good practice for the community
as a whole.
Regards,
Gaurav Kansal
On 02-Sep-2022, at 12:20, [email protected] wrote:
Dear Team,
As Mr. Satoru, mentioned there are changes, but if carefully
implemented in phased manner, unauthorised leasing can be stopped.
For example in first phase, leasing among countries can be
stopped, if the owner company doesn't provide any services beyond
its home country. For example if a company in India doesn't have
any operation in Singapore or Japan , can't lease resources to
those companies in Singapore or Japan. This can be verified by
taking business registration documents of both lease and lessor.
Once this is done same may be granularized at RIR level, where in
country like India, leasing can be restricted to the licensed
service area for service provider within their designated service
area.
This may stop majority of issues, barring few exceptions.
Some more brainstorming is required for better understanding and
precise implementation.
Regards,
Rajesh Panwala
For Smartlink Solutions Pvt Ltd
+91-9227886001
+91-9426110781
On Fri, Sep 2, 2022, 10:44 AM Tsurumaki, Satoru
<[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Colleagues,
I am Satoru Tsurumaki from Japan Open Policy Forum Steering Team..
I would like to share key feedback in our community for prop-148,
based on a meeting we organised on 29th Aug to discuss these
proposals.
Many participants support the intent of the proposal but felt that
implementation would be challenging.
(comment details)
- It is undisputed that the current policy allows for the
distribution
of IP addresses according to the actual demand of one's own
organization or directly connected customers, and does not
allow for
the leasing of IP addresses.
- I think this proposal would be useful if the concept of
leasing is
accurately defined.
- Leasing IP addresses that damage the accuracy of whois
information
should not be allowed, but I find it difficult to implement.
Regards,
Satoru Tsurumaki / JPOPF Steering Team
2022年8月26日(金) 17:27 Shaila Sharmin
<[email protected]>:
>
> Dear SIG members,
>
> A new version of the proposal "prop-148-v002: Clarification
- Leasing of
> Resources is not Acceptable" has been sent to the Policy SIG
for review.
>
> Information about earlier versions is available from:
>
> http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-148
>
> You are encouraged to express your views on the proposal:
>
> - Do you support or oppose the proposal?
> - Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear?
> - What changes could be made to this proposal to make it
more effective?
>
> Please find the text of the proposal below.
>
> Regards,
> Bertrand, Shaila, and Ching-Heng
> APNIC Policy SIG Chairs
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> prop-148-v002: Clarification - Leasing of Resources is not
Acceptable
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Proposer: Jordi Palet Martinez
([email protected])
> Amrita Choudhury ([email protected])
> Fernando Frediani ([email protected])
>
>
> 1. Problem statement
> --------------------
> RIRs have been conceived to manage, allocate and assign
resources
> according to need, in such a way that a LIR/ISP has
addresses to be able
> to directly connect its customers based on justified need.
Addresses are
> not, therefore, a property with which to trade or do business.
>
> When the justification of the need disappears or changes,
for whatever
> reasons, the expected thing would be to return said
addresses to the
> RIR, otherwise according to Section 4.1. (“The original
basis of the
> delegation remains valid”) and 4.1.2. (“Made for a specific
purpose that
> no longer exists, or based on information that is later
found to be
> false or incomplete”) of the policy manual, APNIC is not
enforced to
> renew the license. An alternative is to transfer these
resources using
> the appropriate transfer policy.
>
> If the leasing of addresses is authorized, contrary to the
original
> spirit of the policies and the very existence of the RIRs,
the link
> between connectivity and addresses disappears, which also
poses security
> problems, since, in the absence of connectivity, the
resource holder who
> has received the license to use the addresses does not have
immediate
> physical control to manage/filter them, which can cause
damage to the
> entire community.
>
> Therefore, it should be made explicit in the Policies that
the Internet
> Resources should not be leased “per se”, but only as part of
a direct
> connectivity service.
>
> The existing policies of APNIC are not explicit about that,
however
> current policies do not regard the leasing of addresses as
acceptable,
> if they are not an integral part of a connectivity service.
> Specifically, the justification of the need would not be
valid for those
> blocks of addresses whose purpose is not to directly connect
customers
> of an LIR/ISP, and consequently the renewal of the annual
license for
> the use of the addresses would not be valid either. Sections
3.2.6.
> (Address ownership), 3.2.7. (Address stockpiling) and 3.2.8.
> (Reservations not supported) of the policy manual, are keys
on this
> issue, but an explicit clarification is required.
>
>
> 2. Objective of policy change
> -----------------------------
> Despite the fact that the intention in this regard underlies
the entire
> Policy Manual text and is thus applied to justify the need for
> resources, this proposal makes this aspect explicit by
adding the
> appropriate clarifying text.
>
>
> 3. Situation in other regions
> -----------------------------
> In other RIRs, the leasing of addresses is not authorized
either and
> since it is not explicit in their policy manuals either,
this proposal
> will be presented as well.
>
> Nothing is currently mentioned in RIPE about this and it is not
> acceptable as a justification of the need. In AFRINIC and
LACNIC, the
> staff has confirmed that address leasing is not considered
as valid for
> the justification. In ARIN it is not considered valid as
justification
> of need.
>
> A similar proposal is under discussion in LACNIC and ARIN.
>
>
> 4. Proposed policy solution
> ---------------------------
> 5.8. Leasing of Internet Number Resources
>
> In the case of Internet number resources delegated by APNIC
or an NIR,
> the justification of the need implies the need to use on
their own
> infrastructure and/or network connectivity services provided
directly to
> customers. As a result, any form of IP address leasing is
unacceptable,
> nor does it justify the need, if it is not part of a set of
services
> based, at the very least, on direct connectivity. Even for
networks that
> are not connected to the Internet, leasing of IP addresses
is not
> permitted, because such sites can request direct assignments
from APNIC
> or the relevant NIR and, in the case of IPv4, use private
addresses or
> arrange market transfers.
>
> APNIC may proactively investigate those cases and also
initiate the
> investigation in case of reports by means of a form, email
address or
> other means developed by APNIC.
>
> If any form of leasing, regardless of when the delegation
has been
> issued, is confirmed by an APNIC investigation, it will be
considered a
> policy violation and revocation may apply against any
account holders
> who are leasing or using them for any purposes not specified
in the
> initial request.
>
>
> 5. Advantages / Disadvantages
> -----------------------------
> Advantages:
> Fulfilling the objective above indicated and making the
policy clear.
>
> Disadvantages:
> None.
>
>
> 6. Impact on resource holders
> -----------------------------
> None.
>
>
> 7. References
> -------------
>
https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/proposals/2022/ARIN_prop_308_v2/
>
https://politicas.lacnic.net/politicas/detail/id/LAC-2022-2/language/en
> _______________________________________________
> sig-policy -
https://mailman.apnic.net/[email protected]/
> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
--
--
Satoru Tsurumaki
BBIX, Inc
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use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty
authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of
this information, even if partially, including attached files, is
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are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,
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