Charles,
> > Thanks for the information about Turkey. I was looking for an education
> > when I
> > said "As far as i know" and you have used that as a generalization about all
> > Indians making assumptions :D . I will let it pass.
>
> "The question of secularism does not arise at all in an Islamic
> nation, so those countries can be ruled out in one go."
>
> *I* am the one making generalizations? But I will see if I can get in
> the last word by saying that I will let it pass.
>
> > If democracy is the will of the majority, then
> > pluralism should be the rule in india, not secularism. And in fact that is
> > exactly what I see around me. Pluralism in the guise of secularism. Perhaps
> > it
> > It is people who object to pluralism who have a problem?
>
> Democracy is not in and of itself sufficient to guarantee freedom. It
> is precisely to prevent "the tyranny of the majority" that we
> constitute a government of laws. This is really basic stuff, known
> since the enlightenment. Alexis de Tocqueville and John Stuart Mill
> wrote on it, though the concept was well known in ancient Greece.
Yes.
Democracy is a combination of
demos="common people" (originally "district")
and kratos "rule, strength".
Democracy does not by itself guarantee any rights
for the individual. To have institutionalized
protection of rights and liberties, you need some
sort of constitution.
However, even if a country gives every citizen a vote,
that does not mean it's a democracy. For example,
just as a court can have a show-trial, nations can
have a voting system that systematically prevents certain
votes from having any real meaning, frustrating them
from the expression of their collective will through
a civic process. Hence, structural disenfranchisement
and democracy are incompatible by definition.
It's important to realize that Israel is not structured to
be a government of its citizens but rather of its nationals
(i.e.: its people who also Jews). The 20% of its citizenry/people
who aren't Jewish are an officially disenfranchised class people
who cannot own or rent land in over 93% of its territory, and
are subject to many laws that are harshly discriminatory.
By choice, Israel is not a democracy; it is merely a racist
colonial apartheid state that masquerades as a democracy
from time to time, when convenient.
> The point being that a democracy deriving power from God is not
> impossible. "Dieu et mon droit" is not inherently limited to
> individuals.
Right, but if this so-called God were to decide,
(through its human emissaries, of course)
that one person or one group has nearly all the power,
and a substantial minority has none and cannot have more,
then it's no longer rule by the people -- it's rule by the
structurally empowered over the structurally disempowered,
which is a form of class structured dictatorship.
-Jon
