On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 07:49:16 -5 "M. G. Devour" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I wrote: > > > Next, if you leave the lid off you no longer have a closed system. > > > Distilled water (and your CS), will absorb carbon dioxide from > > > the air and form (I think it is...) carbolic acid. > > Indi replies: > > Yes well, the idea that we actually make containers which contain > > only H2O and silver is a misconception, as you yourself have just > > pointed out. > > Yes, but your contention that we cannot achieve any kind of effective > air-tight seal is quite misconcieved as well. > > I've seen plastic pop bottles filled with water on a warm day in the > fall and left in the trunk of a car over an entire winter, collapse > as the weather got cold, *stay* that way for months even as they > underwent numerous freeze-thaw cycles, and return to their original > volume the first equally warm day in the spring. > > I've personally sampled home-canned fruit that was at least 20 years > old and still well-sealed and safely edible. > > I've also designed, built and operated vacuum equipment with > everything from O-ring seals and rough pumps to cryo-pumped > ultra-high-vacuum systems with conflat flanges. I'm aware that there > are detectable leak rates across various sealing materials and > diffusion of hydrogen and helium through metals and glass. > > All of my experiences back up Ken's off-the-cuff report: Although > it's theoretically possible, in fact inevitable, that some exchange > of gas molecules between the interior and exterior of a filled > container will take place, at near-atmospheric pressures and for all > practical purposes the amounts are NOT significant as long as the > seals are functioning as they're designed. > > If you are concerned about effects down in the 10^-12 range, don't > bother. They are not meaningful in this discussion. Nothing we do > here is that precise, nor does it need to be. > > > As I said, without proper chemical analysis one cannot be sure of > > the exact content, and it is exceedingly unlikely that what we make > > to start with is pure H2O and silver only, or that the solution > > stored in simple jars will remain unchanged for very long. > > Once whatever dissolved gases included in the closed container have > finished doing whatever they're going to do over the first few days, > long term changes appear to be minimal, based on more reports than > just Ken's. > > Given how sensitive electrical conductivity happens to be to even > slight changes in conditions or composition, getting two readings > even roughly the same months apart is a pretty strong indicator that > things haven't changed significantly. > > In our experience, that's the nature of the beast when you're talking > about conductivity. While the exact value of your readings may not be > all that close to some theoretical ideal measurement, comparative > readings are in fact pretty sensitive to changes. > > > That is my point, and I certainly cannot yield it, I'd be lying. > > Well, you're welcome to your position, but in the absence of actual > experiences contradicting the rest of us, I'll take a wait-and-see > attitude on your assertions, okay? <grin> > That's fine, but I think you may have misunderstood the nature of the discussion. I am aware that to some it may have looked like I was picking on Ode (Is Ode whom you call Ken, or did I misidentify someone? I'm a bit confused about that now), but in fact there was an insistence that I accept unproven conclusions based on rudimentary observation as "fact", followed by a stream of defensive argument largely based on misconceptions. I don't like to argue very much actually, but I was compelled to do so due to certain ideas (which I will not mention, wishing to be done with it) being presented as facts. I'd have been happy to let it go days ago, personally, and I think If all my emails did get through that is apparent. In short, I don't feel I was the one "pushing" anything, I just cannot be forced to agree with things I know are unlikely to be true. Anyway, I see you are trying to establish a neutral middle ground, and I appreciate that. You're a good moderator. > > Anyway, thanks for pointing out my misstatements. I will be more > > careful about that in the future. Not sure if you read the whole > > discussion though, as there was a lot of email I never got the last > > couple of days and I have no way of knowing if all the email I sent > > got through. I think it was Comcast's fault, but am not sure... > > As near as I can tell from here, all your posts made it through, > including the one you re-sent when you didn't see it. (Which is > understandable given the circumstances.) Three people have now > reported to me that COMCAST has once again been intermittently > blocking messages from the list server. > Surely there is a special place in hell for comcast executives... Cheers, indi -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: [email protected] Address Off-Topic messages to: [email protected] The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]>
