Observations, draw your own conclusions....
Using a bottom up light to eliminate reflections and a near optical
round jar for magnification and experimenting with various current
setting, LVDC, no stirring [Keep light off till brief observation time]...
When the current density is too high, I saw a stream of particles coming
off both electrodes, one golden from the electrode that turns black, one
whitish coming from the other one, forming an inverted arc with a potion in
the middle that showed nothing at all.
If that arc was allowed to touch the bottom, the golden stream laid down a
black contact [Oxide] spot deposit, the white stream a white [Hyroxide]
deposit and the nothing in the middle made a nice shiny silver mirror.
Reducing the current eliminated the golden stream. [but not the black
spot, entirely]
Theory:
If the current density is too high, some of the Silver Oxide enters the
water rather than sticking to the electrode.
Every time I've seen that golden particle stream the batch came out
yellow, the stronger it was made, the deeper yellow it was.
Of note, Hydrogen Peroxide almost instantly dissolves the Silver Oxide on
the electrode and whatever may accumulate on the glass, except for that
black spot..and...clears up a yellow batch.
..draw your own conclusions.
The silver mirror resulting from the invisible portion of the arc must have
come from Ions picking up electrons and converting into metallic silver to
plate there.
Glass has capacitive capabilities and a capacitor gathers electrons on a
surface [usually aluminum foil, but glass will do it too] where a Silver
Ion might pick it up.
Glass, a silicon based substance, like a solar cell, also has certain
impurities that can serve as doping for an inefficient solar cell to place
those electrons on the surface of the glass.
Any ambient electromagnetic radiation could be the source.
The black spot is not easily dissolved with Hydrogen Peroxide, so, it
could be possible that the Oxide also picked up electrons and enabled the
formation of a different oxide.
[??] denotes an "I dunno", just guessing.
Of note: If you clean a blackened electrode with H2O2, but leave it in the
H2O2, it will turn black again and H2O2 won't remove it. AgO [+] + O
[-] > Ag2O [??]
The Peroxide and the surface electrons on glass does the same thing to the
AgO...converting it into Ag2O using different sources for the mono-atomic
oxygen. [??]
I once ran an LVDC batch with H2O2 in the water for several days and it
made great big shiny silver snow flakes in clear water that after about 3
months of sitting on a sunny windowsill looking very pretty but useless,
turned deep yellow with black balls rolling around on the bottom. The
conductivity never went over 3 uS., however [very foggy memory here] I seem
to recall that the yellow stage metered at 30 uS....could be wrong, that
was a long time ago.
Apparently, under certain energetic conditions, H2O2 can donate an
electron to a silver ion [??]
When using polarity shifting LVAC, no arc will form.
If the frequency is on the high side, both electrodes tend towards white.
If lowered to very slow, both electrodes tend towards black.
With bottom lighting and magnification, the particle cloud can be
observably made to form or collect [Can't tell which] directly between the
electrodes in a standing field.
I've not tried this using over current...could be that a golden standing
field could happen?
Taking it another step:
In almost every discipline where a crystal lattice is formed, metallurgy,
ice snow and weather, rock candy making etc etc, a crystal forms more
readily on an impurity using it as a "seed" or nucleus...which also often
determines the shape of the fractal arms of the crystal...and different
shapes refract light differently.
IF a Silver Oxide particle is being used as that seed to collect Silver
Hydroxide and /or metallic silver particles into a crystal it will be
covered and hidden, thus not show a color from pigment.
However, the size and shape of the crystal could show various colors from
refraction [Rayliegh Light Scattering ?? ]
Since H2O2 will destroy AgO, post haste...AND will remove ANY color from
CS/EIS , not just yellow..could it be that it is removing that Oxide
nucleus and breaking the fractal arms off that crystal to make smaller
pieces that don't display the light scattering effect ..nor be yellow due
to the destruction of the pigment hidden at the center?
In the case of converting red and violet colored CS.. crystals large enough
to display those colors, the broken off fractal arms may be large and
numerous enough to make a very dense TE, yet small enough to not display
some other color.
ode
At 10:56 AM 2/23/2010 -0500, you wrote:
I produced HVAC CS for about 6 years before switching to LVDC. With my
setup I was unable to exceed more than about 7 to 8 ppm before the
particles stated becoming objectionably large, and even at 5 it produced a
yellow instead of a clear EIS. It was a real hassle, requiring a 1 1/2
ton cooling unit to keep the EIS cool enough to prevent even larger particles.
Marshall
Richard Goodwin wrote:
I use high voltage DC, not AC. And only to kick start the process. I very
quickly reduce the voltage as the silver ions start building up, to limit
the current.
Dick
----- Original Message ----
From: sol <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, February 22, 2010 8:49:31 PM
Subject: Ole Bob and HVAC, was Re: CS>Which layer of skin for
silver deposit?
At 06:05 PM 2/21/2010, you wrote:
Hello Dick,
It seems that this is an area that has been looked at before and there are
some theories on the quality of EIS produced at high voltages.
Unfortunately, extensive testing is cost prohibitive, so you will just
have
to go with the theory.
I think I recall that ole Bob spent quite a bit of time experimenting with
HVAC, and eventually stopped. Now that there are archives again, there
may be
some info there.
Anybody else remember this, or am I confused again?
sol
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