Hi Fred, I wish I could go back to school and study this stuff.
I really cannot answer your questions, nor critique your proposed mechanism with any confidence. Here are some of my thoughts on the matters. An ion, by definition is a charged particle. That says nothing about the origin of the charge, or the structure of the charged particle, or changes in it as a result of its environment. A single atom of Ag in solution with its valence charge present is an ion. A clump of silver atoms with a charge is also an ion. I think their behavior is different, and I think the origin of the charge is different. As time permits, I am reviewing basic chemistry to get a handle on these things, but so far, rather than getting a grasp of the subject, I am learning that my earlier opinions are not well grounded, and that the whole business is fantastically complex and delicate. Plus, I do not trust much of what we have been fed describing basic physical events. I think a lot of it is propaganda just like we can obviously see in other areas, like economics and social sciences. How about this, to help resolve the issue. On a cryogenic scanning electron microscope stage, in a nitrogen atmosphere, place microfine electrodes into a very small quantity of water, perhaps a single drop. Calculate the electrodes size, area, spacing, etc. as with a process which has been in use and observed for some time. Perhaps it could be done with AC or DC high or low voltage. Start the process, and run it for a time calculated to produce a low PPM. Freeze the drop and measure the particle size. Continue to increase the run time for additional trials and see what happens to particle size as concentration and/or standing time increases. Your statement, "the ions of silver are released at the positive electrode, which then is reversed from positive to negative, now attracting the ion so it can collect its missing electron to become metallic silver. Now, with no charge it has no affinity to travel BUT the HV electrostatic forces can disperse it". If the clump of silver has no charge then how can electrostatic forces affect it? Explain, "...affinity to travel" in a bit more detail. When the Ag ion is "released at the positive electrode..." what is its charge state at that point. ? What has created that charge? Is it the loss of an electron? If so, and it picks up the "missing electron", and becomes metallic silver, and neutral, what forces keep the clumps/atoms apart? What is the force on the silver atom or cluster which "...collects the missing electron", the valence charge? Is that a surface charge on the clump, or a valence charge in the outer shell? If it is a cluster of silver, is the positive charge the result of one atom in the clump loosing an electron? Note also, with the commonly used HVAC techniques used today, at the electrode there is a polarity change over time, not a square wave polarity reversal, so there will be inertial forces interacting with several different charge fields, electrostatic and magnetic. Some of these are trying to hold the atoms together, and others to repel them. Just how all that balances out is not trivial. It is well established that the HV CS has a charge, usually 1+. This has been determined by placing the sol between charged plates and measuring the motion of the particles. That is what prevents the silver from forming crystals except under highly improbable impact velocity and structural orientation conditions at impact, as Ivan has so well described. Re: toxicity. Rabbit and dog studies indicate that the very minimum toxicity for an adult human to be one gram over a year. Other information indicates it may be as much as 5 or 6 grams, according to the material researched by John Hill. Perhaps he is observing and will comment. I don't have the time to calculate the weight of 3 oz x 8 x (approximately 5 mg/L). Do that and you can see if that was a possible toxic dose. Bruce Marx has been taking 9 oz a day for over 8 years. I don't know how much I have been taking but it is less than 24 oz a day, except for the one Flu I have had in many years. I think you would have to inject a huge amount of CS to go toxic. Any thing can be toxic. Remember the guy who drank so much carrot juice that he turned orange and croaked? I chose to focus on the HVAC process because II was told that it produces very small clumps of silver with a positive charge, and virtually no monatomic silver. I think the single atom silver is much more chemically reactive that the former and therefore more likely to be able to produce toxic compounds. As I have said several times, "ion, or ionic" is a not-adequately-specific definition for these states. The conflict between Bruce Marx's TEM studies of LVDC and Brooks's group is very confusing to me. What's a poor boy to believe? Bruce says they are "golf balls", and Brooks says the size is always the same, regardless of process. Kill titers using broth should demonstrate if one silver is better than another in the most "proof of the pudding" manner, and I look forward to that data being published. Thank you for your comments. I look forward to our continuing to solve these puzzles together. Pardon my not-well-organized nor quantified reply, I am pressed for time. James Osbourne Holmes [email protected] "Did you use the spaghetti pot? Outragous! -----Original Message----- From: Fred [SMTP:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 12:16 PM To: [email protected] Subject: CS>RE:Particle size -LV and HV James said: >Brooks's data is puzzling. The LVDC stuff I used to make was not clear. >It precipitated. I did use a tiny bit of salt, less than half what Metcalf >recommended. Can it be that all the particles do come off the same size >and it is the intensity of their charge which keeps them from forming >larger particles?" In my opinion James, the ions of silver are all the same size when released, but without circulation an ion cloud forms (they have very low mobility as you can observe) and reaches a density where crystals start to form, just as you get in a saturated solution. Thus the color and further, the lack of charge (now metallic not ionic) allows gravity to act on them and allow settlement. The longer the run and/or the denser the cloud, the more crystal growth. It is virtually impossible to time a electrochemical process and thus the wide variations reported by "you all" and the need to meter and express PPM before comparing apples and oranges! My theory with the HV process is that the ions of silver are released at the positive electrode, which then is reversed from positive to negative, now attracting the ion so it can collect its missing electron to become metallic silver. Now, with no charge it has no affinity to travel BUT the HV electrostatic forces can disperse it. Thus no free ions and no saturated zones so no crystal growth! Now you have small particles which are easily suspended by the Van der Waal forces and a built in electrostatic circulation to prevent "sludge deposits". Being non-reactive particles (vs. ions) a high PPM can be produced before settlement may become a problem. My only problems with the process (besides the HV danger) is you have metallic silver rather then ions, which I believe has less effacy and a high PPM which is easily abused. On a Yahoo list, one poor soul claimed he was so sick he had to take 3 ounces, 8 times a day for months (no mention of the PPM) but a serious overdose by my book and probably the cause of many of his problems? Corrections or Comments? Cordially, [email protected] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: [email protected] -or- [email protected] with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: [email protected] Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]>
