Hi Fred, Re: "There have been many tests to validate the discharge of up to 98% of silver ions in 24 hours..."
Do you have any data source on that? Thanks for your attention. James Osbourne Holmes [email protected] FTNWO -----Original Message----- From: Fred [SMTP:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 3:04 PM To: [email protected] Subject: CS>Re: Your Last Comments on my HVAC CS were lost Not trying to attack you Roger, just looking for some data! I realize you were looking for nitric acid, to explain the low pH but I wonder if the reference I have, that indicates nitrites (which we all know are killers for humans) are likely! Apparently the EPA limit in potable water is 45PPM for nitrates but zero for nitrites. I do not think there is any dispute that the HVAC arc process produces nitrogen compounds and sintered elemental silver particles, not the higher bio-available silver ions. Granted, you may have a silver colloid with charged particles but an electrostatic charge will not have the chemical reactivity of an ionic charge. As for your high "killing" power, silver nitrate has a long and successful history of efficient medical applications, albeit serious side effects like manufactured drugs! It is evidence of the efficiency of silver ions (soluble salts disassociate to ions and anions, cations or whatever). I and others who have serious questions about the HVAC process, question what you are serving your friends , not how potent it is! The posts from 'OLE" Bob you may note (it was his sample I have) show that he is the most unbiased here, having expended money to build and experiment with HVAC, as a means to produce a better product and assist others, not to market anything! His recent shielded electrode test (like my prior idea of an inert atmosphere) and the submerged electrode test (with their minor pH drops), clearly gave evidence that the big pH dip in an open arc is from nitrogen products! What they are is still up for grabs, in my mind and I hope yours, since your nitrate test was negative! Biased I, sell what I consider the best LVDC unit (also maybe the most costly) but spend a great deal of time in research and web design time to help others with my medical findings - you have to search on my site to find my product! I have also disclosed to you and the other list members full details on exactly how I make my unit. With over 40 years in the design and manufacture of custom HVAC and DC research tools I would love to utilize that experience but for a 2 volt DC process I still wonder what all the hoopla is about HVAC. (Fast yes, known product no!) I will find out and publish my findings with or without your sample and pay for some lab tests if needed! What if the rapidly growing HVAC industry is screwing with our bodies like the drug companies, simply because they will not validate what they are making! The alternative health field is an attempt to escape fatal research with untested drugs - if you can not tell me what you made, I don't want it! Your thought that ions of silver do not exist, only elemental silver, is so far from the main stream I wonder what you think about a solute such as silver nitrate. Is there disassociation or will the silver just lose its bond, to drop out as elemental silver? If you have reasons why elemental silver is not a catalyst for H2O2, or why Cl will not complex with silver ions or that silver chloride is not insoluble in water, I would love to review it! We hashed these simple "do at home test" ideas over pretty well before on this list and had no dissension other then that they are qualitative and not quantitative. My goal, as with others, was to make some simple tests the home hacker could use to validate their "wonder what I made" product questions. For my purpose of detecting elemental silver or silver ions, they work well and validate my desire to produce no elemental silver! I do believe your body stores up elemental metals, as with any metallic toxin, and is the primary cause of argyria, if not death. There have been many tests to validate the discharge of up to 98% of silver ions in 24 hours and thus the near improbability of having argyria or a fatality with ionic forms. Love to do a bio-activity test - still waiting for a suggested subject, but the point , as I mention above is not killing power but safety AND killing power. There are lot better bactericides and viricides but few with the safety we look for in Cs! Maybe what you have is structured water with a silver ion signature and then it would be effective even if diluted 100,000,000 to 1 (or even 10 to the 120th power). See http://www.digibio.com/cgi-bin/node.pl?lg=us&nd=n4_1 <snip>(talk about structured water!!) When human polymorphonuclear basophils, a type of white blood cell with antibodies of the immunoglobulin E (IgE) type on its surface, are exposed to anti-IgE antibodies, they release histamine from their intracellular granules and change their staining properties. The latter can be demonstrated at dilutions of anti-IgE that range from 1 X 10^2 to 1 x 10^120; over that range, there are successive peaks of degranulation front 40 to 60% of the basophils, despite the calculated absence of any anti-IgE molecules at the highest dilutions. Since dilutions need to be accompanied by vigorous shaking for the effects to be observed, transmission of the biological information could be related to the molecular organization of water. </snip> My problem with using his theory is "how do you ensure the signature is a good one and not a bad one of say nitrite"! Since you can not see or measure it after dilution how do you ensure what you put in the bottle? [email protected] At 08:01 AM 6/15/2000, you wrote: >In a message dated 6/14/00 3:20:36 PM EST, [email protected] writes: > ><< Did they test for ions or simply silver in any form Roger? > >Fred: Silver in any form. > > Also, should they be testing for nitrite or nitrate? My good book says > nitrates are mostly from organic decomposition and nitrites > and mostly from ammonia oxidation with water - seems that > lightening will produce ammonia (a chemist I am not!). > >Fred: I wanted to know if nitric acid was present. It wasn't. > > The first sample I got (from another list member) failed the > metallic silver test badly - over (50) O2 bubbles/sq. in. in a few > hours, on a 1/2oz. sample. My interpretation is that there are > very many tiny metallic particles of silver present! (My H2O2 > test in a plastic baggy!) As mentioned before, silver ions will > produce NO bubbles at all, even in two days! > >Fred: With all do respect for your methodology to distinguish charged from >uncharged particles, I do not think that silver IONS are present in colloidal >silver. I believe that metallic silver particles make up the sol. These >particles are more or less statically charged and have a particular size >distribution depending on the method and parameters used to produce it. I >believe my HVAC CS product contains heavily charged minute SILVER particles. >Otherwise, why is it so stable, and why is it so potent at ~ 1 PPM or less? > > Further, the ion test seems to have failed - adding an equal > amount of 15PPM NaCl salt solution caused cloudy ness, as > expected but NO crystals as expected (silver chloride is > insoluble and precipitates out), unless the low pH prevents > crystallization in some way??? > > He used the "arc" type of process. Have more tests to do on it, > so will report later. Your sample did not arrive yet! > >Fred: I don't think I'm going to send you a sample of my HVAC CS until I'm >convinced that your methodology is accurate AND until you include in your >analysis a test for bioactivity. > >Can you run an "nitrogen free" test (enclose the reaction chamber in a >plastic bag filled with O2 or CO2 or at least use a vacuum cleaner to >evacuate most air from the system/bag), to see if you still get the dip in >pH? That will show if the arc was producing nitric acid of if your theory of >structuring has merit! > >Fred: There is no evidence of nitric acid present in my CS. In addition, I >wonder how many technical papers I can find the demonstrates that HVAC can >produce structured water? > > I do not believe it is happening to the extent you say, since submerged >electrodes (AC current - no arc) apparently will not drop the pH, or am I >mis-informed on that? > >Fred: Perhaps you should investigate the relationship between structured >water and pH. There could be a very complex relationship between the two, >particularly in the presence of electrostatically charged silver particles. > >Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: [email protected] -or- [email protected] with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: [email protected] Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]>
