No, thank you Dave. And I must stick up for Terry on one point: He did not write those words, I did in relation to some people's response to what I've send this list in the past. Yes, I have restrained myself considerably---and unfortunately,for many. I try not to send unrelated CS material, but this does seem VERY important. I did forget to mention that my experience with DW was not just based upon "feelings". My hair turned gray(terribly) and I could not deal with ANY stress at all. It would show up almost immediately as grid line formations all around my eyes. Since giving up the exclusive consumption of DW, my hair now is back to the original color and no more stress lines! Who is the doctor--scientist who believed that the deficiency of minerals is at the base of all disease? By the way, one doctor told me that gray hair is the deficiency of copper.
Still Searching For That Next Morsel of TRUTH, Pam >Terry writes:> Oh no, she has done it again. No, she was not able >to "restrain" herself. >> Yes, it is another Pam Grant e-mail--this time on distilled >water. Nothing >> scientific--yet, just plain ole experience story. >Familiar?--then don't >> read. It's long. I'm sorry. Not highly CS related. >> _________ >> Terry, > >Pam > >Contrary to Terry's , what seemed to me, disparaging remark(s) >"leading in" to your remarks, >I appreciate the tone and content of your email; and am also >encouraging, for my benefit, a chance to express an opinion (or >question) on water without it being treated as a frivolous aside. > ><snip>> Okay, try to convince me. >> At present, I am into "clustered water"---which is "evidenced" >by a >> beautiful 6-sided water molecule--as close as DR. Lorenzen >could achieve to >> the 6-sided water molecule found at the 6 "healing" waters >sites around the >> world. >> >> IN Search of TRUTH, > >This is what I believe, after much study, many opinions, (and >facts) to be the most beneficial water for long term use in >helping to optimize my well being. > >I hope the CS list continues to focus on being a place to find >out the latest technical information on CS production and use but >also continues to be accepting enough of some basic information >that impacts the reason (I assume) that most of us participate >i.e.. To help ourselves and others sort out the most efficacious >methods to regain and maintain optimum health . > >Thanks, Pam > >Dave Perkins >"enjoy being" > >email: [email protected] >web site: www.betterwayhealth.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Pamela Grant <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 5:47 AM >Subject: Re: CS>OT-DW--warning, this is about distilled water > > >> Oh no, she has done it again. No, she was not able to >"restrain" herself. >> Yes, it is another Pam Grant e-mail--this time on distilled >water. Nothing >> scientific--yet, just plain ole experience story. >Familiar?--then don't >> read. It's long. I'm sorry. Not highly CS related. >> _________ >> Terry, >> >> I knew I was asking for it--now I just want to know why you are >so >> passionate about this---I was hoping you would skip over my >previous >> e-mail. Well, here we go. >> >> >>Pamela refers to her experience of feeling worse after >> >>drinking DW as a reason for concluding that DW is not >> >>good to drink. >> >> Actually, no, I did not conclude based upon just my feelings, >though you >> made that assumption. I just didn't want to get into the whole >story nor >> mention the various practitioners who agree. At this point I >don't even >> remember why I wrote it. If it was to convince people NOT to >drink DW, I >> certainly would have written something more substantive than >that. I am not >> out to convince anyone NOT to drink this. I'll have to do much >homework >> first(if I come to that conclusion). You seem to want to >convince--so here >> is what I have to say. Even in this e-mail, I am not out to >argue with >> you---as you will see. Though arguing(or should I say stating a >difference >> in opinion) does seem to be allowed here. >> _________ >> >> It is also called a "dead water"--seen the images taken from >under a >> microscope. I did "feel" much better when I stopped drinking >the DW and >> started consuming colloidal minerals. You are right to mention >about the >> "healing crisis". I am NOT closed minded and I HAVE considered >all that you >> have written here long before you wrote it. I don't know who is >right, and >> frankly at the time I just needed to get well again for I was >stuck in a >> city because of how I felt(couln't drive home it was so >bad)--yes, due to >> the DW(whether that was good or not...hmm--was just listening >to my >> body---perhaps the discussion should be whether or not our >bodies know what >> is best). >> >> Did I mention I was at a health conference when this escalated? >Let me get >> a little philosophical here for a moment. I was sitting in this >conference >> and I was going in and out of consciousness(with eyes wide >open---eerie). >> The speaker, a doctor, walked up to my desk where I was sitting >and >> suddenly changed the subject of what he was speaking about. He >lifted up >> the bottle of water I had in front of me(mind you, it was >labeled "spring >> water"---I had it filled with DW). He began to speak about >distilled water >> and how dangerous this water can be. All I remember is him >saying it was a >> "dead water". Life always seems to have a way of bringing me >the >> information I need when I need it most--call it luck or >whatever else you >> want. This wasn't the first time and it was unmistakably my >WAKE-UP >> call!--just when I needed it most! Has this ever happened to >you? I feel I >> can safely say it happens to people--just a matter of >recognizing it---some >> call it the "golden-tongued wisdom". >> Have you ever had a deficiency and found yourself craving that >nutrient? >> The body's wisdom? I was craving minerals---yes. >> This does not mean that the DW did not have benefit. >> >> Until coming to this list, I mostly heard the negative on >DW(along with its >> ability to detox). I did start drinking the water--or that is >continued >> drinking it as I had the idea that I would detox from any >"unwanted" heavy >> metals(as I still waited for my filters to arrive). I also >considered the >> source of the distilled water--as it is stored in plastic >containers for >> God knows how long before it is bought by the consumer(no. 2 >plastic---with >> light passing through leaches toxins from the plastic--esp. >when at room >> temp.--so I have read)--and being from WalMart. Perhaps you'd >want to argue >> the point about the source of a person's distilled water. >Chemicals do >> leach---though I don't think this was the problem(entirely, >anyway). >> >> Scientific "proof" is great---but, so is my gut feeling which >seldom ever >> wrongs me. I would NOT go back to this water(same brand). I am >not sure why >> you seem to take this so seriously. Do you sell distillers or >distilled >> water? Or are you passionate because of the "good" DW has done? >> >> I had a chiropractor who bought a distiller for around $800.00 >It was >> suppose to create highly oxegenated distilled water. I should >give her a >> call and ask how they are all "feeling" these days. Reportedly, >even adding >> a bit of this specially-made DW water to the well system will >clear up and >> oxegenate the well water. I somehow think that they are >probably not >> drinking it exclusively. >> >> >The medical industry scorns "empirical" evidence - >> >meaning subjective experiences which have been >> >observed and reported by "unprofessionals" - (though >> >they use it themselves whenever they feel they will >> >profit) as being "unscientific" precisely because of >> >the subjectivity of the report >> >> I certainly wouldn't want to give these guys any more ammo than >they >> already have. >> >> >I have, for the last 18 years, >> >>forwarned my clients of the likelihood of experiencing >> >>a "healing crisis" when they begin to drink adequate >> >>quantities of DW, the same as I forwarn them of the >> >>possibility of it happening during a liver/colon >> >>cleanse, or even just changing to healthy, natural >> >>food, or a herx when first starting CS. >> >> Has any of them NOT experienced a h. crisis? >> >> The thing is I have detoxed more than most people would like to >go through. >> I have had many a series of colonics, DMPS(for removal of >mercury) include >> that I have had all fillings and root canal removed 6 yrs. ago, >EDTA >> chelations---just for the heck of it(for removal of lead, >plaque, etc.), I >> drink 8 glasses of quadrup. filtered( and sterilized w/UV >light) 100ft. >> deep well water daily, I eat mostly organic and grow most of it >myself, I >> avoid the chemtrails like the plague(for which it is), I've >done >> homeopathics for various detox, herbals for detox, I consume >Ambrotose, I >> take Liquid Needle baths for detox, epsom salts along with >baking >> soda(removes heavy metals) and hyrogen peroxide(food grade >only--a more >> important discussion needs to be done on that alone)baths; I do >not smoke, >> drink--can't even stand to mow the lawn for the exhaust fumes, >I get >> regular chiropractic, get massages(not enough, unfortunately), >I exercise >> regularly, and the older I get the pickier I get about my >enviroment and >> consumptions---don't even use toothpaste for the toxins, don't >use make-up, >> live in the boonies--less pollution, I add nothing to my body, >use only >> homemades soaps(except shampoo), have done regimes for detox >through >> devices that are VERY good for this such detox therapy, I even >> lymphasize!----------DO NOT BASE YOUR ASSUMPTIONS IN MY CASE >UNTIL YOU HAVE >> ALL THE FACTS---your philosophy, correct? >> >> Of course, even with all the above there are still going to be >toxins---a >> fact of life, I know. Can one even do a true "scientific" study >on the >> consumption of DW given that you cannot control everyone's >enviroment not >> to mention mental and emotional states which afect the release >of >> toxins(some people actually and subconsciously hold onto their >toxins)? Can >> one ever prove the total benefit beyond any doubt? And you can >never get >> ALL the facts on a person's case---doctors are not smart enough >and most >> people's memories don't allow them to get all the facts nor are >they even >> aware enough to give all the facts; most practitioners don't >take the time >> with their patients to get the whole picture. And I will tell >you, I have >> NOT experienced anything so horrendous as the distilled water >regime >> experience. >> Now, I suppose that could be taken as DW is the worst thing one >could do to >> their health OR it could be taken that DW is the most powerful >detox regime >> above all others I have ever done.(By the way, I do use DW for >CS) >> ________ >> >> >listen to >> >>your body (if you've learned how to do that >> >> This is a lifetime task---much tweeking as one goes along for >our bodies >> are always changing >> ______ >> >> Perhaps you are correct for the water that you use, but >frankly, I would >> NOT go back to that same distilled water that I had consumed. I >did NOT do >> diagnostics to see if I was depleted from any minerals. So I >cannot argue >> this case based upon scientific data. >> >> >>The answer is not to accumulate all the positive and >> >>negative reports concerning a given substance or >> >>therapy, add them up, and see who has the most votes. >> >> You are most correct and I would like to invite you to please >send me >> reports of the positive cases and your source for DW. (Please >do not send >> me to the internet for this info as my Netscape is out of >order.--really) >> >> >I have, for the last 18 years, >> >>forwarned my clients of the likelihood of experiencing >> >>a "healing crisis" when they begin to drink adequate >> >>quantities of DW, >> >> By the way, what did your clients detox from after drinking DW? >Metals? Did >> they have blood test, hair analysis before and after? And was >DW their only >> protocol at the time for detox? And what are "adequate >quanties"--and for >> what outcome are you looking for? >> >> >I can >> >>relate an equal number or greater of very positive >> >>experiences (albeit empirical) utilizing DW as the >> >>primary therapy >> >> Ah, so they did use other therapies? >> >> >try things out (though >> >>even that is difficult when one person says it is good >> >>for you and the other claims it is toxic >> >> Who says it is toxic? >> >> >Dr. Reams felt that DW was best >> >>utilised by the body, and he had over 50,000 patients >> >>over the years (yes, 50K!) to support his claims >> >> Now, now you are touting numbers >> >> Is he the only doctor who claims this? And does he advocate the >sole use of DW? >> >> Okay, if you are familiar with the "benefits" of DW then >perhaps you could >> lead me to recognizing some benefit I obtained---though this >does not mean >> there were no drawbacks. So, do you agree there can be >drawbacks along with >> benefits to its consumption? I hate to say this because I don't >want to >> sound like the medical establishment(I am far from that), but >perhaps I did >> not have a recognizable benefit(to speak of) because I was not >being told >> so(you know--the ole placebo effect). I do notice one thing---I >lost the >> mammoth appetite I used to have before the DW experience. >Though recently I >> read that a deficiency of copper can cause anorexia. Also, >ridding the body >> of yeast can lesson the appetitie. Does DW have this positive >effect--that >> is with the yeast--not the copper(good place to fit in my >question to the >> list, if they are still reading this--does anyone have any >experience with >> colloidal copper?)? >> >> Honestly, this is not something I have researched so PLEASE >send me >> scientific studies that prove DW is best or even good. But, I >still like >> testimonials best. >> >> You have my interest--let's get to the bottom of this matter if >possible. >> You may e-mail me personally if you like(so as not to drive the >others >> insane with this issue). Really, I will look it all over with >an open mind. >> Of course, it will force me to have to find any opposing >material just for >> a well-rounded DW education---but not for argument. You've >probably heard >> it all anyway---I hope. You seem passionate about this---I must >assume >> there is merit. >> >> Is your stance one of balance?---to drink DW for detox purposes >for a >> certain period of time or do you advocate the drinking of >this---sorry, I >> can't help it---"dead water"---exclusively? And if you have a >certain >> device like the chiropractor I know has, have you a photo of >its created >> water molecule? I'd be very curious. >> >> Okay, try to convince me. >> At present, I am into "clustered water"---which is "evidenced" >by a >> beautiful 6-sided water molecule--as close as DR. Lorenzen >could achieve to >> the 6-sided water molecule found at the 6 "healing" waters >sites around the >> world. >> >> IN Search of TRUTH, >> Pam >> >> Again, sorry for the length of this e-mail. I never could find >what e-mail >> you are responding to, Terry. So, I am not sure exactly >everything I said. >> I did write a lengthy e-amil about my experience with DW back >when you guys >> were discussing it, but I decided to trash it. Perhaps it >wasn't meant to >> be for there you have it now(basically). Good day and I look >forward to >> your response and my eventual education on this subject. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Listers, >> >Pamela refers to her experience of feeling worse after >> >drinking DW as a reason for concluding that DW is not >> >good to drink. I have, for the last 18 years, >> >forwarned my clients of the likelihood of experiencing >> >a "healing crisis" when they begin to drink adequate >> >quantities of DW, the same as I forwarn them of the >> >possibility of it happening during a liver/colon >> >cleanse, or even just changing to healthy, natural >> >food, or a herx when first starting CS. The healing >> >crisis would be initiated not only by the DW, but even >> >more by the increased consumption of water in general. >> >When the body gets enough water, it will start >> >cleansing and detoxing at a higher level. >> > >> >One CS client of mine had an experience after taking >> >just one tspn of CS. She woke up the next day with her >> >face covered with a rash, her hands and fingers >> >swollen, her mind numb and foggy, cramps and diahrrea. >> > >> >She has come to the conclusion, based on her >> >experience, that CS is not good to ingest. No amount >> >of reasoning with her prevails. >> > >> >The medical industry scorns "empirical" evidence - >> >meaning subjective experiences which have been >> >observed and reported by "unprofessionals" - (though >> >they use it themselves whenever they feel they will >> >profit) as being "unscientific" precisely because of >> >the subjectivity of the report (too many uncontrolled >> >factors). Yet they very unscientifically dismiss many >> >hundreds of positive reports concerning CS while >> >accepting 2 or 3 dubious reports of argyria which have >> >virtually no clearly identifiable parameters. They do >> >not even know exactly what the argyria victims >> >ingested. >> > >> >With DW, for every subjective empirical experience >> >which someone can relate about DW (such as the absurd >> >one claiming that the negative health issues which a >> >regular consumer of soda pop suffered were caused by >> >the DW which was supposedly used in the soda!), I can >> >relate an equal number or greater of very positive >> >experiences (albeit empirical) utilizing DW as the >> >primary therapy. I have read all kinds of claims by >> >health "authorities" (Hey, they published a book, >> >didn't they!) claiming both good and bad concerning >> >DW, very rarely, if ever, substantiated by any "hard" >> >science (as though that were the final arbiter of >> >health questions). >> > >> >The answer is not to accumulate all the positive and >> >negative reports concerning a given substance or >> >therapy, add them up, and see who has the most votes. >> > >> >The answer, in my opinion, is to objectively consider >> >all the data from both sides of the issue (assuming >> >there are only two sides!), try things out (though >> >even that is difficult when one person says it is good >> >for you and the other claims it is toxic), listen to >> >your body (if you've learned how to do that), pray (if >> >you're so inclined) and make your best decision. I >> >notice that there are great enthusiasts for DW, RO, >> >DI, filtered, spring, etc., water. (I haven't found >> >any natural-oriented folks who advocate chlorinated >> >water!) >> > >> >This says to me that the common ingredient which our >> >bodies need is water. Dr. Reams felt that DW was best >> >utilised by the body, and he had over 50,000 patients >> >over the years (yes, 50K!) to support his claims. But >> >he also said, if you can't get DW, drink whatever you >> >CAN get. He said that if you could do nothing else for >> >your health, at least drink enough water. >> > >> >Terry Wayne >> >> >> >> And The Truth Shall Help You Be Healthy, >> Pam >> >> >> >> -- >> The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of >colloidal silver. >> >> To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail >message to: >> [email protected] -or- >[email protected] >> with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. >> >> To post, address your message to: [email protected] >> Silver-list archive: >http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html >> List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]> >> >> And The Truth Shall Help You Be Healthy, Pam
