Terry, your post has I'm sure put things into proper balance and hosed down any paranoia amongst newbies. That quote on no reported cases of argyria in the last 25 years is not quite correct though - I include as attachment a former posting that lists three cases within the last few years. The type of silver preparations are not listed, but one was reported as being 200PPM - so was almost certainly either silver nitrate or a 'mild' silver protein. Assuming a rate of one case per year from overuse of poor formulations of silver, surely still stacks up pretty well against the record for every prescription drug on the market.
Kevin Nolan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Chamberlin" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 6:04 AM Subject: CS>Argyria, misc posts > This is in response to several postings. > > Wayne said, > My voltage is about 1/2 as much, 52 VDC vs your 110 > VDC. The volume is 60 oz or about 1/2 gallon. If my > starter and water was the same as yours, then the one > hour should give me about the same ppm, it would > appear. Is this logic flawed, or is there something I > am missing? > > Your logic sounds good to me. > > Jrowland said, > It would seem that in some instances, the CS target > would be such that the smallest possible silver > particle size might be needed. What method of > production would you use, and any idea how small a > size can be had? > > I have read that .001 micron is 1/7,00th the size of a > red blood cell. I have also read that when the silver > particles get much bigger than that, they begin to > refract light (giving the CS a yellowish color). So my > reasoning is that crystal clear CS has particles (or > ions) too small to need it any smaller. Or, in other > words, after a certain point, the CS particles are as > small as is needed for any assimilation process in the > human body. > > John Reeder said, > If you don't have starter, how long will it take? > > On the average, I found that using 1/4 CS as a starter > reduced my brewing time by 1/2 to 2/3. If I needed to > make a batch but had no starter, I would make a quart > of starter first, which would take about 1 to 1-1/2 > hours. Even if my starter batch is yellow (unless dark > yellow), it makes good starter, and the end batch is > still clear. > > To comment on other posts, we seem to have accepted a > list members story of apparent argyria without > identifying the factors involved. How much CS did this > person ingest? Over what period of time? What ppm was > it? There was some talk of it being made by WaterOz, > but does anyone know how they make their CS? Folks > even talk of argyria being something they had and then > got over, which is not considered to be possible. > Has this person been medically diagnosed as having > argyria? I have a very difficult time believing > someone has argyria from a modest or reasonable > quantity of colloidal silver, even silver compounds > such as Mild Silver Protein. Every other case of > argyria on record describes incidents of argyria as a > result of ingestion or exposure to extremely high > levels of silver compounds or silver dust (such as > with a silver-smith). > > The following is for the benefit of those who are new > to the list, who have not read this before. None of > this is new to the Old-timers. > > Let me quote Alexander G. Schauss, Ph.D. > Director, Life Sciences Division > John Hopkins University > > you should be advised that we recently completed an > extensive review of the scientific literature on the > safety of silver, especially as it relates to its one > known potential side effect, namely, Argyria. Argyia > is an irreversible discoloration of the pigment (skin) > caused by excessive silver intake or chronic exposure > to silver by certain tissues. The amount of silver > required to develop Argyria is estimated to be 3.8 > grams per day. By comparison standard 10 ppm > colloidal silver contains silver in amounts equaling > less than 1 milligram of silver (1,000 micrograms = 1 > milligram; 1,000 milligrams - 1 gram), which therefore > represents an amount approximately 1/500th to 1/1000th > of the amount of silver considered to be a risk in the > development of Argyria. > > Most cases of Argyria reported in the medical > literature over the last 100 years involved chronic > intravenous or intramuscular use of the silver > preparations, most often involving a silver drug > prescribed by physicians which in most cases contained > silver nitrate. Other cases of Argyria reported in the > medical literature involve application of silver > preparations used for many months or years in the > treatment of the eye or vagina for certain diseases. > We could not locate a single case of orally consumed > colloidal silver manufactured in the last 25 years > causing Argyria in our review of the literature. This > is probably due to the low levels of silver contained > in such preparations, since only very small amounts of > silver are needed for its antiseptic effect. > > Humans consume approximately 100 micrograms of silver > every day in the diet. Additional amounts within this > range would be considered safe by all reasonable > estimates, especially if the amount needed to develop > Argyria would be equivalent of 380,000 micrograms (or > 3.8 grams) of silver a day. > > To better understand the misconception regarding > Argyria, I will quote from the book "The Micro Silver > Bullet by Dr. M. Paul Farber 1996 page XII (ISBN > 1-887742-00-X) In reference to a "Journal of American > Medical Association" article, October 18 1995, volume > 274 # 15, where cases of Argyria were cited to have > been caused by silver compounds (not colloidal silver, > but silver mixed with other metals), note: > > "These Case history presentations represent biased and > unprofessional writing. The author's apparent > inability to understand the difference between a > silver nitrate, sulfide, or other silver compound > demonstrates their lack of understanding of basic > chemical properties. The matrix, substrate, and > particle size are all critical to the varied functions > and reactions with use of these products. That is why > there has not been a single case of Argyria from a > properly manufactured modern-day colloidal silver > product. The cases of Argyria reported in the 1920's > and 1930's resulted because the technology of the day > was unable to produce a pure colloidal silver product > with a small enough particle size." > > In reference to possible silver toxicity, Dr John Hill > D.C. in his book Colloidal Silver, A Literature > Review states this: > > Critics of colloidal silver sometimes state that it > has been known to cause organ damage, kidney damage, > pulmonary edema, atherosclerosis and death. > > These claims appear to be based on a research study > on dogs in which the dogs were deliberately killed by > extremely large lethal doses of silver. At the doses > given, any heavy metal and probably many essential > minerals like zinc, iron, copper, etc. would have > produced death in similar fashion." > > And again, "We know that dogs died from injections of > a type of protein-bound silver in dosages ranging from > 500 mg to 1.9 grams of silver, depending on the > frequency of administration. This was equivalent in > silver content to giving [per day] a 150 pound adult > between 150 litres and 570 litres of 10 ppm colloidal > silver, or between 75 and 285 liters of 20 ppm > colloidal silver or between 50 and 190 litres of 30 > ppm colloidal silver. The 10 gram estimated lethal > dose for humans from Goodman and Gillman is equivalent > to 1000 liters of 10 ppm colloidal silver. In another > case an individual ingested an estimated 124 grams of > silver nitrate over a 9-year period. She developed > argyria and an assortment of neurological symptoms as > well... This report is often used by critics to > attribute neurological disorders to silver > consumption. They curiously fail to put in perspective > the gross difference between the quantities of silver > involved." > > Thus colloidal silver cannot cause argyria. > Theoretically I guess one could take CS with > sufficient ppm and in sufficient quantity to cause > aggregation, but one would likely drown from too much > water first, as the amounts would be truly phenomenal. > > In years of pouring over hardcopy of obscure medical > cases no one has yet found a single report of any > adverse reaction to very fine particles of very fine > silver floating in very pure water. > > The following two letters to and from the USFDA are > most informative: > > October 14th, 1999 > Food and Drug Administration > U.S. Department Of Health and > Human Services > Public Health Service > 5600 Fishers Lane > Rockville, MD 20857 > > Dear Sirs/Madam, > > Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act and in > regard your August 17th, 1999 ruling regarding > colloidal silver, could you please supply the > following documentation on which you based your > decision? > > 1. The number of deaths related to the consumption of > colloidal silver. > > 2. The number of allergic reactions to the consumption > of colloidal silver. > > 3. The number of harmful drug interactions from both > OTC and prescription drugs when combined with > colloidal silver. > > 4. The number of reported cases of Argyria from > colloidal silver made with the AC or DC electrical > process. > > 5. The number of cases of Argyria from colloidal > silver that did not contain protein stabilizers. > > Thank you for your time and consideration of this > request. > > Sincerely, > Brent Finnegan > > The FDA response: > > Public Health Service > Center for Drug Evaluation and Research > Office of Training and Communication > Freedom of Information Staff HFD-205 > 5600 Fishers Lane 12 B 05 > Rockville, Maryland 20857 > DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES > > November 3, 1999 > > In Response Refer to File: F99-22589 > Brent Finnigan Takoma (sic), WA 98408 > > Dear Mr. Finnigan: > > This is in response to your request of 10/14/99, in > which you requested adverse events associated with the > use of Colloidal Silver. Your request was received in > the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research on > 10/25/99. > > We have searched the records from FDA's Adverse Event > Reporting System (AERS) and have been unable to locate > any cases that would be responsive to your request. > > Charges of $3.50 (Search $3.50, Review $0, > Reproduction $0, Computer time $0) will be included in > a monthly invoice. DO NOT SEND ANY PAYMENT UNTIL YOU > RECEIVE AN INVOICE. > > If there are any problems with this response, please > notify us in writing of your specific problem(s). > > Please reference the above file number. > > Sincerely, > > Hal Stepper > Freedom of Information Technician > Office of Training and Communications > Freedom of Information Staff, HFD-205 > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Find, Connect Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca > > > -- > The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > > To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: > [email protected] -or- [email protected] > with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. > > To post, address your message to: [email protected] > Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]> >
Counterpoint to CS.rtf
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