> Re: CS>Silver Generation with ULVDC
> From: Robert Berger
> Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 08:43:45
> Hi Mike,
> A very good report!!
> The oxidation potential for water is 1.228 volts. If you stay
> below this voltage there will never be any oxides or peroxides
> formed. The electrodes will stay clean.
> "Ole Bob"
Hi Robert,
Thanks! And thank you for the motivation to pursue this
investigation. I read all your posts that said you could make high
ppm cs, and it stayed clear.
I have to confess I didn't believe it, but you were insistent enough
that I finally said I had to try to find out how you did it. Your
post on the low current density was a very important clue. Thanks.
I'd like to make 8oz of cs in 8 to 12hr without stirring, using
discarded transistor radio batteries. For example, a 9V Duracell is
specified at 580mA/hr into a 620 ohm load before it reaches 0.8V per
cell. This is an initial current drain of 14mA.
When the battery can no longer drive a boom box, there's still
plenty of energy left. At low current, there might be enough for
several months of cs production. This means the supply of used
batteries exceeds the demand, which is a desirable situation in
third world countries.
According to the data shown below, it might be possible to run the
generator on a single AA cell. This would be very advantageous since
it would last even longer.
My generator is an 8oz syrup jug with the electrodes screwed to a
plastic lid. One electrode is two 12ga. wires in parallel with a
wetted length of 3.85 inches. The surface area is 2 * 3.85 * 0.25 =
2 * 0.96 ~= 2 sq. in.
The other electrode is 17 inches of 12ga wire bent into a "W" shape.
For convenience, I simply claim the surface area is twice the other
electrode, or 4 sq. in. (I don't trust my math on those curves:)
The reason for dragging you through all this is that I found when I
use the "W" electrode for the anode, I get a gray cloud around the
two cathode rods at the end of the process.
When I remove power, this falls off the rods and turns into the
familiar brown mist we all have seen with the 3 nines method. Soon
afterwards, the solution turns yellow and plates out.
This never happens when I reverse the anode and cathode connections.
Here's the run at 155uA using the "W" electrode as the anode, and
without thermal stirring. I made some notes on the side to explain
what was happening.
Thu May 08, 2003, 5:57:48 pm 2.010V <-- Start process
Thu May 08, 2003, 6:49:52 pm 1.701V
Thu May 08, 2003, 6:57:41 pm 1.645V
Thu May 08, 2003, 7:17:21 pm 1.513V <-- 1 AA battery voltage
Thu May 08, 2003, 8:04:49 pm 1.239V
Thu May 08, 2003, 9:33:27 pm 1.060V
Fri May 09, 2003, 12:44:41 am 0.858V <-- No whiskers or smudges.
Fri May 09, 2003, 1:36:01 am 0.831V
Fri May 09, 2003, 2:43:41 am 0.772V <-- Tiny whiskers on one cathode
Fri May 09, 2003, 3:46:01 am 0.770V
Fri May 09, 2003, 5:10:29 am 0.747V
Fri May 09, 2003, 5:59:02 am 0.734V <-- Whiskers on both cathodes
Fri May 09, 2003, 10:22:15 am 0.677V <-- Reversed the polarity
At this point, both cathode rods are covered with the gray cloud.
I reversed the polarity, and the cloud gradually dispersed. This is
good - I expected it to fall off the rods to the bottom of the
glass. Also note the large drop in voltage across the rods.
Fri May 09, 2003, 10:24:27 am 0.312V
Fri May 09, 2003, 11:49:56 am 0.377V
Fri May 09, 2003, 2:02:49 pm 0.412V
Fri May 09, 2003, 3:08:20 pm 0.467V
Fri May 09, 2003, 4:30:22 pm 0.461V
Fri May 09, 2003, 4:37:18 pm 0.482V
Fri May 09, 2003, 5:18:19 pm 0.663V
Fri May 09, 2003, 5:52:13 pm 0.578V <-- stopped the process
The salt test shows this is the strongest cs I have ever made. If I
ran the same quantity of electrons at the normal 1.4mA, the solution
would have turned black long before this and I would have thrown it
away.
I think it has a slight metallic taste, but it is not unpleasant. My
friend (and cs guinea pig) says she can't detect it at all.
The solution remains perfectly clear, but I do expect it to start
turning yellow and plate out soon. But if people were to use it
right away instead of trying to store it, they sure would get some
high strength cs!
Note that after 1 hr and 20 minutes, the necessary voltage could be
supplied by a single AA battery (used, of course:) The solution
could be seeded with a portion from a previous batch to skip over
the initial portion above 1.5V.
If we take 0.7V as an average voltage across the rods, the series
resistor would be:
R = E / I
= (1.4 - 0.7) / 155e-6
= 4516.129 ohms
A common 4.7k would probably work fine. I'll set it up and start
testing as soon as I finish this post.
So, "Ole Bob", this look very promising. Thanks to your prodding,
there may be a simple and inexpensive method of making good quality
cs, and no worries about the source of current.
Please turn up the boom box, would you?
Best Regards,
Mike Monett
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